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Nathan Beaulieu Part III

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Old
10-24-2016, 08:32 AM
  #51
JusticeBeaver
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that, you do not know.
Defensively I believe he will, and has already.

Offensively I'm not sure where he will end up. Just sometimes it looks like he works himself into tight situations, and that last minute decision with the puck he struggles with. Almost Eller-like in a way. Now his breakouts and skating, and movement of play are fine. I'll wait and see, still only 5 games.

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10-24-2016, 08:42 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Glad to see that the prediction that our man mountain and his aura of leadership are spontaneously transforming Nathan Beaulieu into Roman Josi, as was predicted by this board.
Meanwhile, Subban has been transforming Josi's defensive game to look like Beaulieu's.

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10-24-2016, 08:46 AM
  #53
montreal
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How many games did he play on the first pairing with Subban? I don't remember him playing a lot there
Not sure, would have to look it up. I recall him starting off well and then it starting going badly so they moved him down.

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10-24-2016, 10:40 AM
  #54
NotProkofievian
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
What an intellectually dishonest post.

Beaulieu will improve playing alongside Weber. It won't magically happen after 5 games though.

Nashville-------------->
Or perhaps it just won't happen, and the habs will be in a great deal of trouble.

That's impossible though, because remember: leedarship.

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10-24-2016, 11:07 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Or perhaps it just won't happen, and the habs will be in a great deal of trouble.

That's impossible though, because remember: leedarship.
Magic. ???

Go look at Josi's stats with Weber. Each season became incrementally better than the previous one.

Josi was not created as a great top line D. He became one over time.

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10-24-2016, 11:27 AM
  #56
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He won't be the first person drafted because of offensive skills that did not pan out. After 156 NHL games you would think we would be seeing some glimpses of his supposed offensive prowess. That ship is sailing.

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10-24-2016, 11:30 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Magic. ???

Go look at Josi's stats with Weber. Each season became incrementally better than the previous one.

Josi was not created as a great top line D. He became one over time.
So, given all this bluster about how it's like, totally going to happen that Weber will turn Beaulieu into a top line dman like Roman Josi, or that it's at least not impossible, how was my original post intellectually dishonest?

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10-24-2016, 11:54 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
He won't be the first person drafted because of offensive skills that did not pan out. After 156 NHL games you would think we would be seeing some glimpses of his supposed offensive prowess. That ship is sailing.
Beaulieu played with a pretty impressive Saint John team for a few seasons. That team was loaded with talent, so perhaps his stock raised more than it should of. Regardless, the talent is there and he has improved each year so far. It's been very small improvements but he's only 23 and still improving. This is his year to prove himself as a top 4 D man and by playing with Weber, he should produce. I prefer him to be very solid defensively and chip in offensively... then maybe his next contract wont be huge based on just one good year of offense

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10-24-2016, 12:39 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
Glad to see that the prediction that our man mountain and his aura of leadership are spontaneously transforming Nathan Beaulieu into Roman Josi, as was predicted by this board.
That is simply not true. I don't know if you are being intentionally dishonest, or intentionally joking, but not one person predicted spontaneous transformation.

Many people felt that there is a good chance Beaulieu could benefit from playing with Weber this year.

There are 77 regular season games left in "this year".

So far, the first pair has gotten by with very little damage, I think 1 or 2 ES goals against in 5 games against the top lines of the other teams.

I wouldn't complain yet.

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10-24-2016, 01:10 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
So, given all this bluster about how it's like, totally going to happen that Weber will turn Beaulieu into a top line dman like Roman Josi, or that it's at least not impossible, how was my original post intellectually dishonest?
5 games so far.

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10-24-2016, 01:55 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
That is simply not true. I don't know if you are being intentionally dishonest, or intentionally joking, but not one person predicted spontaneous transformation.

Many people felt that there is a good chance Beaulieu could benefit from playing with Weber this year.

There are 77 regular season games left in "this year".

So far, the first pair has gotten by with very little damage, I think 1 or 2 ES goals against in 5 games against the top lines of the other teams.

I wouldn't complain yet.
Could he benefit from playing with Weber? Yeah, that's sensible. Could he benefit to the extent that was suggested by a few members here in the wake of ''the trade''? Come on. I'm just enjoying the process.

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10-24-2016, 03:08 PM
  #62
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I'm not sure what people were expecting. Almost everyone back in the summer was hoping the Habs would play Beaulieu with Weber in order for Beaulieu to learn and progress. Almost no one believed that Beaulieu was already a #2 defenceman, and of course he isn't.

Nate also might NEVER be a true #2, first-pairing defenceman. Lots of teams split their top two defencemen on two pairs, and get 50 minutes of great play per night. The Habs ACTUAL #2 D is Jeff Petry. He's a hugely under-rated D, just lacking 50 point per year ability, but able to do anything else you would want. We have done this before with pretty good results. For four years, we split our two best Ds, Markov and Hamrlik, and for two of those years played Komisarek, a #3-4 at best, with Markov, and it generally worked.

In my mind, Beaulieu was a #5 with upside last year, and he is better this year after just a short time. Hopefully he continues to improve. But let's not forget that a learning curve was totally expected, he never faced top forwards most of the time before.
I totally agree that Beaulieu is not the actual #2 dman, but it just so happens that he moves up the depth chart rather quickly because of the state of our left side. We are on the same page there.

And yes, hopefully he improves (and I suspect that he will improve somewhat just because of his age) but I haven't seen that improvement in his game that you speak of today even though it's early.

I don't think he came close to mastering his game against weaker competition, so I did not expect him to do any better against the top guys right now.

An argument can be made that with more ice time and experience, he will eventually become adequate in his role, but I just don't think he's a very smart player, and that to me, is a pre requisite for becoming a dependable player. I really hope I'm wrong though.

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10-24-2016, 03:26 PM
  #63
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wow what is going on here. Beaulieu started last year on the 3rd pairing and our highest hope for him was to reach and play on a stable 2nd pairing. 1 year later he's on our 1st pairing and playing some really great hockey. Yeah he made a mistake, but good lord every one makes mistake, even Weber.

For me, imho , I would say that he's doing really great compared to last year and on the 1st pairing right now.
This means absolutely nothing. He didn't move to the first pairing because he is better than Petry and Markov. He was put there because he would be insulated by our best dman and hopefully to learn from him. He has not improved at all over the last two seasons. He is mobile and has some skill but his mental game is abysmal.....always has been.

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10-24-2016, 04:12 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
This means absolutely nothing. He didn't move to the first pairing because he is better than Petry and Markov. He was put there because he would be insulated by our best dman and hopefully to learn from him. He has not improved at all over the last two seasons. He is mobile and has some skill but his mental game is abysmal.....always has been.
I think you're overstating Beaulieu's mistakes, but assuming we all agree his biggest issue is decision-making, there's no better place to learn than in the University of Weber. So much of defence is mental, which is why the best d-men reach their prime far later than forwards. Beaulieu has time to improve, and is being paired with possibly the best tutor in the league.

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10-24-2016, 04:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
I think you're overstating Beaulieu's mistakes, but assuming we all agree his biggest issue is decision-making, there's no better place to learn than in the University of Weber. So much of defence is mental, which is why the best d-men reach their prime far later than forwards. Beaulieu has time to improve, and is being paired with possibly the best tutor in the league.
To add, he also graduated from the finest finishing school the league has to offer: the Michel Therrien school for defensemen who can't play good, and would like to do other things good too.

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10-24-2016, 05:03 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
This means absolutely nothing. He didn't move to the first pairing because he is better than Petry and Markov. He was put there because he would be insulated by our best dman and hopefully to learn from him. He has not improved at all over the last two seasons. He is mobile and has some skill but his mental game is abysmal.....always has been.
oh he's definitely improved. He's way more engaged this year. Last year's NB would be eaten alive on the top pairing by now. Whether last year's NB was with Weber or not.

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10-25-2016, 09:41 AM
  #67
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Did Subban also struggle defensively in his first few years ? As many people have said, defenceman takes more time to develop than forwards. This is a also the reason that Sergachev is actually not ready for NHL.

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10-25-2016, 10:01 AM
  #68
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Did Subban also struggle defensively in his first few years ? As many people have said, defenceman takes more time to develop than forwards. This is a also the reason that Sergachev is actually not ready for NHL.
Subban didn't struggle like Beaulieu, they shouldn't even be in the same sentence. Subban dominated the AHL, Beaulieu did not. Subban is one of the top offensive blueliners in the NHL, Beaulieu has 3 goals in his career, Subban could do that in a week. Subban takes too many high risk plays so at times he will be burnt but Beaulieu continues to make the same mental mistakes yet doesn't provide half the production of Subban.

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10-25-2016, 10:21 AM
  #69
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Subban didn't struggle like Beaulieu, they shouldn't even be in the same sentence. Subban dominated the AHL, Beaulieu did not. Subban is one of the top offensive blueliners in the NHL, Beaulieu has 3 goals in his career, Subban could do that in a week. Subban takes too many high risk plays so at times he will be burnt but Beaulieu continues to make the same mental mistakes yet doesn't provide half the production of Subban.
I agree 100%.

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10-25-2016, 10:26 AM
  #70
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Did Subban also struggle defensively in his first few years ? As many people have said, defenceman takes more time to develop than forwards. This is a also the reason that Sergachev is actually not ready for NHL.
Subban came in and dominated defensively right away. Jacques Martin played him in a shutdown role against Crosby and Ovechkin in the playoffs and he excelled right off the bat.

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10-25-2016, 01:10 PM
  #71
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He won't be the first person drafted because of offensive skills that did not pan out. After 156 NHL games you would think we would be seeing some glimpses of his supposed offensive prowess. That ship is sailing.
i dont get what the rush is. he's top 6. good enough for me.

i put him in the same class as Emelin and Pateryn. some great games, some bad games.

so really on defense, we have a Top 3, and a Bottom 3

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Originally Posted by capebretoncanadien View Post
Subban came in and dominated defensively right away. Jacques Martin played him in a shutdown role against Crosby and Ovechkin in the playoffs and he excelled right off the bat.
how people forget


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10-25-2016, 01:23 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by True Tick and Tin View Post
i dont get what the rush is. he's top 6. good enough for me.

i put him in the same class as Emelin and Pateryn. some great games, some bad games.

so really on defense, we have a Top 3, and a Bottom 3
The issue is that out of the top 3, two of them are second pairing guys. There is still that hole on the top pairing.

I have a big hunch Bergevin won't let things stand. The big question for me is do you let Beaulieu on the top pairing with Weber and see if Nate can hang in there? To me, Bergevin is in win now and near future mode so I don't think he's willing to wait and see if someone can develop into the top pairing, at least not for too long.

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10-25-2016, 01:42 PM
  #73
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how people forget
uhhh if I remember correctly it was Gill-Gorges and Hamrlik-Spacek that shut down Ovy and Crosby in 2011. Not to mention the wall that was Halak. Subban was called up in Game 4/5 in the Capitals series. He had a mere 3 games under his belt when the Habs played the Pens. He played heavier mins with Markov going down in Game 1.

Subban however was put in charge to shut down the Bruins top line of Horton-Kreiji-Lucic the following year with Gill. The year when Markov, Gorges were lost for the season. The 2nd pair of Wiz-Hamrlik were matched against Patrice Bergeron.

The following year JM got canned and the Habs missed the playoffs

Then Subban was paired with Gorges vs the Sens, where the Habs lost in the 1st round

Then Subban was paired with Gorges when the Habs went on to the ECF

Then Subban was paired with Markov when the Habs beat the Sens but lost to TB

Then the Habs missed the playoffs

Then Subban was traded.

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10-25-2016, 04:38 PM
  #74
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uhhh if I remember correctly it was Gill-Gorges and Hamrlik-Spacek that shut down Ovy and Crosby in 2011. Not to mention the wall that was Halak. Subban was called up in Game 4/5 in the Capitals series. He had a mere 3 games under his belt when the Habs played the Pens. He played heavier mins with Markov going down in Game 1.

Subban however was put in charge to shut down the Bruins top line of Horton-Kreiji-Lucic the following year with Gill. The year when Markov, Gorges were lost for the season. The 2nd pair of Wiz-Hamrlik were matched against Patrice Bergeron.

The following year JM got canned and the Habs missed the playoffs

Then Subban was paired with Gorges vs the Sens, where the Habs lost in the 1st round

Then Subban was paired with Gorges when the Habs went on to the ECF

Then Subban was paired with Markov when the Habs beat the Sens but lost to TB

Then the Habs missed the playoffs

Then Subban was traded.
You're right. Gill was huge -- literally -- in the 2010 (not 2011) playoffs. He was a shot-blocking wall. Subban made his debut that year when Markov was injured and he was a phenomenon, but he was not the biggest factor on D that year. He showed star potential the next year against Boston in 2011.

Beaulieu will never be Subban, but he has time to become a solid 1st or 2nd-pair D with some overlapping qualities. He's faster and more physical than PK, but obviously doesn't have Subban's nose for the net or his shot. The rest of Beau's game is mental, and is still up for grabs.

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10-25-2016, 04:52 PM
  #75
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Subban didn't struggle like Beaulieu, they shouldn't even be in the same sentence. Subban dominated the AHL, Beaulieu did not. Subban is one of the top offensive blueliners in the NHL, Beaulieu has 3 goals in his career, Subban could do that in a week. Subban takes too many high risk plays so at times he will be burnt but Beaulieu continues to make the same mental mistakes yet doesn't provide half the production of Subban.
Comparing Subban, an elite, best of the best, defenseman in the NHL and Beaulieu, is exactly why were all throwing stones at each others in this thread.

Let's clear something up: Beaulieu will never be Subban. Beaulieu will never be Karlsson. Beaulieu will never be Doughty. Beaulieu is beaulieu, and it's alright for him to be himself.

It's also alright for him to settle in the NHL as a 30 points guy like Petry. There's no problem in that.

Expectations are so high for a prospect many didn't care about just before this summer. Why are we looking to Beaulieu to fill the shoes of Subban ?


Subban didn't struggle defensively when he came in the NHL, he dominated, they are two different players.

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