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Sam Reinhart - Part 3

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Old
10-25-2016, 11:44 PM
  #76
dotcommunism
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He needs to be benched because he got cross-checked against Calgary. Agreed.

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Old
10-26-2016, 12:04 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by pigpen65 View Post
Directly responsible for two losses already. Getting bounced off the puck in OT vs Calgary and taking the O zone penalty vs Philly tonight. He either needs some bench time or he needs to drop down to the bottom six for a little bit. Zero intensity.
It's fair to say he shouldn't have taken the penalty tonight. But when he got hit from behind on a play that could be argued should've been called for a penalty - I have a hard time faulting him for that.

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10-26-2016, 08:08 AM
  #78
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The sky isn't falling, and I'm happy to have Sam on this team. To sit here and crap on stokes (who I don't always agree with either), when he brings some valid points to the table is lame.

We all take into consideration that Sam isn't the most flashy player in the league, and does some little things far better than many of his peers (both younger and older), but to sit here and stick your head in the sand when he is starting to slip behind guys from his draft class is disingenuous.

He looks like a guy that has the ability to quietly elevate the game of those that play with him, but he also still lacks the foot speed to be an effective NHL center, not to mention he still seems to be physically outmatched more often than not. Players with similar, or even less strength than him typically are faster, so they can mask their physical shortcomings. With Sam, there is no hiding it, he compensates in other ways (elite hockey IQ, puck off his stick faster etc.), but there are too many times where he just seems a bit underwhelming physically.

He is young, and i expect him to quietly be a potential 60+ point guy in this league for a long time. The problem I have is that I also see a possibility that he might never be more than a complimentary player, instead of a franchise centerman, and that is not what I'd ever hope the number 2 overall pick in the draft to be.

It's early, and last season was a very promising start, but to sit here and have zero concerns makes me envious of you all. I'm anxious by nature, and don't have nearly the hockey IQ of many that post here, but I hope that doesn't disqualify my opinion. To say everything is going to be great, dont worry, seems a bit premature to me though.

If I deserved to be drilled because of this post, please enlighten me. I have thick skin, and it's the only way I can try to see what others see.

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10-26-2016, 08:28 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Lock3Boys View Post
The sky isn't falling, and I'm happy to have Sam on this team. To sit here and crap on stokes (who I don't always agree with either), when he brings some valid points to the table is lame.

We all take into consideration that Sam isn't the most flashy player in the league, and does some little things far better than many of his peers (both younger and older), but to sit here and stick your head in the sand when he is starting to slip behind guys from his draft class is disingenuous.

He looks like a guy that has the ability to quietly elevate the game of those that play with him, but he also still lacks the foot speed to be an effective NHL center, not to mention he still seems to be physically outmatched more often than not. Players with similar, or even less strength than him typically are faster, so they can mask their physical shortcomings. With Sam, there is no hiding it, he compensates in other ways (elite hockey IQ, puck off his stick faster etc.), but there are too many times where he just seems a bit underwhelming physically.

He is young, and i expect him to quietly be a potential 60+ point guy in this league for a long time. The problem I have is that I also see a possibility that he might never be more than a complimentary player, instead of a franchise centerman, and that is not what I'd ever hope the number 2 overall pick in the draft to be.

It's early, and last season was a very promising start, but to sit here and have zero concerns makes me envious of you all. I'm anxious by nature, and don't have nearly the hockey IQ of many that post here, but I hope that doesn't disqualify my opinion. To say everything is going to be great, dont worry, seems a bit premature to me though.

If I deserved to be drilled because of this post, please enlighten me. I have thick skin, and it's the only way I can try to see what others see.
I agree with mostly everything you have said. The question with Reinhart isn't going to be if he can be a good player in the NHL, it's going to be if he will live up to the billing of a No.2 pick and become a franchise type centerman.

Ever since he was drafted i've had my doubts that he is going to be that guy, but I have zero doubt he is going to play in this league for a long time and be a good player. Off the top of my head, he's the worst skating and least dynamic top 3 pick in a long time, but he's also one of the best pure passers to come out of the draft in a long time. Other players drafted behind him have caught or surpassed him (IMO), but he's far from a finished product, and I don't think we will really know what he is going to be until he is 24,25 years old.

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Old
10-26-2016, 08:59 AM
  #80
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He has been passed because of 5 games this season?

Because he was one of the best rookies last season and the best forward from his draft.

Overreaction is the theme if you are a sabres fan it seems.
After every win the team is destinated for the Stanley Cup/ Super bowl, but once they lose everything is getting questioned.
I know people love the shiny new toys but com on be a little more realistic.

All of this will be forgotten when the Sabres are in playoff hunt come january.

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10-26-2016, 09:13 AM
  #81
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He has been passed because of 5 games this season?

Because he was one of the best rookies last season and the best forward from his draft.
He wasn't better than Draisaitl, it's debatable if he was better than Larkin (Team NA brass obviously didn't think so), and it's pretty obvious that Nylander is a better player now. Sam Bennett has had a decent start to this season, so keep your eye out for that as well.

My issue is that he didn't develop at all physically. He put in this amazing offseason, yet he still has the same footspeed and the same hockey strength. It has me a little depressed thinking we might have drafted Jason Pomminvile 2.0 when we had the pick of the litter, and brought in Murray specifically for his drafting ability.

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Old
10-26-2016, 09:27 AM
  #82
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For all the praise Reinhart gets you would think he is an elite franchise player already. He has entered Tyler Myers status on this board, where he gets overhyped and praised ad nauseum and if you disagree then you have a vicious gang attack you. I thought he was going to be a star too but he hasn't been and most likely never will be. I like the Pominville comparison. 60 point player good 2 way game.

And before anyone pulls the he isn't even legal drinking age argument, A he turns 21 in 2 weeks and B a players prime is in his early 20s. And he has been average this season yet gets praised for every little thing because the Murray lovers have to justify the pick and his performance. Draisaitl and Larkin are better right now and Nylander is far better. It's sickening that Mathews+Nylander are far better then Eichel and Reinhart.

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10-26-2016, 09:31 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cosa Nostra View Post
For all the praise Reinhart gets you would think he is an elite franchise player already. He has entered Tyler Myers status on this board, where he gets overhyped and praised ad nauseum and if you disagree then you have a vicious gang attack you. I thought he was going to be a star too but he hasn't been and most likely never will be. I like the Pominville comparison. 60 point player good 2 way game.

And before anyone pulls the he isn't even legal drinking age argument, A he turns 21 in 2 weeks and B a players prime is in his early 20s. And he has been average this season yet gets praised for every little thing because the Murray lovers have to justify the pick and his performance. Draisaitl and Larkin are better right now and Nylander is far better. It's sickening that Mathews+Nylander are far better then Eichel and Reinhart.
This is funny to me because you've been calling Reinhart a franchise player in typical FreddieB hyperbolic fashion for a couple of years.

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Old
10-26-2016, 09:34 AM
  #84
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The reason I am harping on this is because the easiest way to screw up a rebuild and become the Oilers is by getting your high picks wrong. Everyone wants to go on and on about the Myers and Lehner trades. Well, getting to the top of the draft to get franchise lynchpins was the most important part of the tank. The trades were to complement the process. If you don't get the franchise players right, the complementary trades don't matter all that much.

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10-26-2016, 09:35 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
He wasn't better than Draisaitl, it's debatable if he was better than Larkin (Team NA brass obviously didn't think so), and it's pretty obvious that Nylander is a better player now. Sam Bennett has had a decent start to this season, so keep your eye out for that as well.

My issue is that he didn't develop at all physically. He put in this amazing offseason, yet he still has the same footspeed and the same hockey strength. It has me a little depressed thinking we might have drafted Jason Pomminvile 2.0 when we had the pick of the litter, and brought in Murray specifically for his drafting ability.
That was the exact player I see when I watch him play. Sam is a top 6 forward who rarely hurts you but could disappear from the score sheet for multiple games until he gets hot. I don't think being a pommer will be his ceiling though.

All the other rookies people keep pointing out have elite size or speed. They will make the mistakes Sam won't make but will sometimes be able to recover due to the physical abilities.

My question is: Can you train enough to obtain above average hockey speed or will there only be a minimal improvement. Hockey strength will come as he gets older but will his attitude stay more passive?

We all wished hodgson would get faster or Myers to get angrier but those things never happened.

I like Sam and think he will be a fantastic player but what you see now with his speed, is what you may always get.

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Old
10-26-2016, 09:45 AM
  #86
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I said when Eichel went down it gave us a chance to evaluate the roster. Reinhart is one of the biggest disappointments so far without Eichel in the lineup. Sucks that we drafted a passenger #2 overall and not a driver. He is not a franchise changer. At least we can celebrate the fact Murray would have taken Reinhart over Ekblad, our GM knows what he is doing.

At some point I will have to lower my expectations for Reinhart. Smart guy though.

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10-26-2016, 09:48 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
He wasn't better than Draisaitl, it's debatable if he was better than Larkin (Team NA brass obviously didn't think so), and it's pretty obvious that Nylander is a better player now. Sam Bennett has had a decent start to this season, so keep your eye out for that as well.

My issue is that he didn't develop at all physically. He put in this amazing offseason, yet he still has the same footspeed and the same hockey strength. It has me a little depressed thinking we might have drafted Jason Pomminvile 2.0 when we had the pick of the litter, and brought in Murray specifically for his drafting ability.
It's really not lol

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Old
10-26-2016, 09:54 AM
  #88
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It's really not lol
Larkin outscored Reinhart, got more ROY votes, was named to the U-23 team... How was Reinhart so conclusively better? It seems to me outside of Buffalo homers, most people think Larkin had the better year.

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10-26-2016, 10:03 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Larkin outscored Reinhart, got more ROY votes, was named to the U-23 team... How was Reinhart so conclusively better? It seems to me outside of Buffalo homers, most people think Larkin had the better year.
I think Larkin has been a bit of a disappointment this year as well. Seems that was just a terrible draft overall. Even Nylander. If you took away Mathews I dont know how well he performs. Reinhart would be just fine riding shotgun with Eichel.

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10-26-2016, 10:05 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Larkin outscored Reinhart,
By 3 assists lol
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got more ROY votes,
Which was a joke
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was named to the U-23 team...
Cuz he fast

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How was Reinhart so conclusively better? It seems to me outside of Buffalo homers, most people think Larkin had the better year.
Every metric besides assists.

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Old
10-26-2016, 10:05 AM
  #91
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Wow, all the skilled youngsters in possession based systems are outperforming (on the score sheet) our young skill players in our passive stretch n dump system.....

Shocking...

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10-26-2016, 10:07 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Sabre Dance View Post
I think Larkin has been a bit of a disappointment this year as well. Seems that was just a terrible draft overall. Even Nylander. If you took away Mathews I dont know how well he performs. Reinhart would be just fine riding shotgun with Eichel.
Have you watched TOR? Nylander isn't relying on Matthews.

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10-26-2016, 10:08 AM
  #93
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He had a rough game last night but besides that, this team is still much better whenever Reinhart is on the ice. Just like it was last season.

He was drafted as someone that "makes those around him better" and he's been doing just that at the NHL level. Just because he doesn't skate fast doesn't mean he's not a really valuable contributor.

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10-26-2016, 10:11 AM
  #94
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Have you watched TOR? Nylander isn't relying on Matthews.
They are attached at the hip. Dont get me wrong, Nylander is driving that line IMO, but he still has Mathews.

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10-26-2016, 10:15 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Sabre Dance View Post
I said when Eichel went down it gave us a chance to evaluate the roster. Reinhart is one of the biggest disappointments so far without Eichel in the lineup. Sucks that we drafted a passenger #2 overall and not a driver. He is not a franchise changer. At least we can celebrate the fact Murray would have taken Reinhart over Ekblad, our GM knows what he is doing.

At some point I will have to lower my expectations for Reinhart. Smart guy though.
There is a thread on the main boards pointing out Ekblad's lack of speed right this very moment. You guys would never be happy.

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10-26-2016, 10:18 AM
  #96
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He had a rough game last night but besides that, this team is still much better whenever Reinhart is on the ice. Just like it was last season.

He was drafted as someone that "makes those around him better" and he's been doing just that at the NHL level. Just because he doesn't skate fast doesn't mean he's not a really valuable contributor.
His advanced stats are really good.

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10-26-2016, 10:22 AM
  #97
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There is a thread on the main boards pointing out Ekblad's lack of speed right this very moment. You guys would never be happy.
Im ok with the Reinhart pick, its just funny some fans got very defensive in the past when people say we lost out on Ekblad. Quick to say Reinhart was Murray's pick anyways.

It was a poor draft. Reinhart will help us win. We all knew he wasnt a legit top 3 pick, but he will compliment our top players well. We just have to accept the fact he will never carry a team. Never may be a strong word, he still has years of development left.

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10-26-2016, 10:44 AM
  #98
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Directly responsible for two losses already. Getting bounced off the puck in OT vs Calgary and taking the O zone penalty vs Philly tonight. He either needs some bench time or he needs to drop down to the bottom six for a little bit. Zero intensity.
Directly responsible for two losses because of a cross-check to his back and an inadvertent high-stick. When you lose two games in overtime, you can't blame one player as "directly responsible". If you want to criticize his game go ahead. Say he's slow or lacks intensity or whatever else. Blaming him for these two losses is bogus.

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10-26-2016, 09:18 PM
  #99
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Blaming him for these two losses is bogus.

I think letting him off the hook for directly contributing to two losses in five games is bogus. Worse, i think it's bad for development. Bench him or drop him down the depth chart and make him work his way back up. Look the other way and gift him everything we'll just end up with another Stafford.

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10-26-2016, 09:21 PM
  #100
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I think letting him off the hook for directly contributing to two losses in five games is bogus. Worse, i think it's bad for development. Bench him or drop him down the depth chart and make him work his way back up. Look the other way and gift him everything we'll just end up with another Stafford.
What's bogus is taking a play where a player got cross-checked from behind next to the boards and a penalty should've/could've been called and classifying it as "directly contributing to a loss".

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