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Old
10-31-2016, 01:56 PM
  #101
Gm0ney
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
I think the idea of asking Enstrom to waive his NM clause is that we hope Vegas does not pick him up due to his age and instead picks up one of our younger forwards or goalies. It benefits Enstrom in that if he is not picked up, the Jet's are a better team (say as to losing a higher rated D like Trouba if we had to leave him unprotected)
If Enstrom's exposed then the Jets protect 7F+3D+1G. Who would Vegas presumably choose ahead of Enstrom? Forwards protected: Little, Wheeler, Scheifele, Perreault, Armia, Dano, Lowry. Are they going to take Copp over Enstrom? I find that unlikely...

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10-31-2016, 01:59 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
Yes but there is only one logical reason for Enstrom to do it. If he wants to live in Las Vegas.

He negotiated his NMC to give him control. He's not giving that up. This idea that Enstrom would waive for the betterment of the Jets is ludicrous IMO. Enstrom will only waive for the betterment of Enstrom. There's a better chance he would waive at the TD to go to a contender. I doubt he wants to play for an expansion team.
I am intriqued about what the Jets might be able to offer Enstrom as an incentive to waiving his NMC. Has there ever been instances where that has been done and why? For the betterment of the team - nah. For assurances of something else happening that will benefit him directly -- not sure what that might be, any thoughts?

The other option is to buy him out of his current contract. After this year he has 1 yr left at 5.75, so that would certainly be a realistic option. Although the Jets have not appeared willing to go down that avenue in the past, it might make a lot of sense here. After all, what are the chances they can re-sign him & what are the chances he's go for a massive pay cut? If not, I'd say we will be far better off getting additional depth at D via trades, and saying adieu to Mr Enstrom.

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10-31-2016, 02:06 PM
  #103
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I think before we start entertaining any other scenarios, we need to address the elephant in the room. Trouba has requested to be traded, and is sitting out. This situation will soon sort itself out. And if the result is a trade for Trouba, then the problem's solved. If we lose Trouba, I'd hate to po Enstrom. Possible complication is that we need to protect another defenceman that came with the Trouba trade.


Last edited by Shazzam: 10-31-2016 at 02:13 PM.
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Old
10-31-2016, 02:42 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
If Enstrom's exposed then the Jets protect 7F+3D+1G. Who would Vegas presumably choose ahead of Enstrom? Forwards protected: Little, Wheeler, Scheifele, Perreault, Armia, Dano, Lowry. Are they going to take Copp over Enstrom? I find that unlikely...
A young cost controlled defensive center over a over 30 dmnan with a year left in his contract before he likely walks? No brainer to me.
Enstrom won't get picked. You just have to convince him of that.

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10-31-2016, 02:43 PM
  #105
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Fourand4

I still think we should try and work out a deal involving us exposing Trouba and getting LVs lotto pick.


Last edited by Daximus: 10-31-2016 at 02:43 PM. Reason: Daximus
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Old
10-31-2016, 03:27 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
If Enstrom's exposed then the Jets protect 7F+3D+1G. Who would Vegas presumably choose ahead of Enstrom? Forwards protected: Little, Wheeler, Scheifele, Perreault, Armia, Dano, Lowry. Are they going to take Copp over Enstrom? I find that unlikely...
We could leave Dano or Lowry unprotected if we want to increase the odds of keeping Enstrom.

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Old
10-31-2016, 05:11 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
We could leave Dano or Lowry unprotected if we want to increase the odds of keeping Enstrom.
Enstrom has a NMC. Jets have to protect him regardless. Only option to move Enstrom is if he waives his NMC. Right now, the Jets would be dumb to move Enstrom. They are very weak on LD.

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Old
10-31-2016, 05:34 PM
  #108
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I vote

7F 3D 1G

Protect
Little/Wheels /Chef/MP/Armia/Lowry/Dano

Toby/Buff/Trouba

Expose Myers, Trouba has his spot in the top 4 on the right hand side assuming Myers gets chosen

I'm under the belief either Trouba plays for the Jets or he plays in the KHL until he is 27.

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Old
10-31-2016, 05:40 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayofthedogs View Post
I vote

7F 3D 1G

Protect
Little/Wheels /Chef/MP/Armia/Lowry/Dano

Toby/Buff/Trouba

Expose Myers, Trouba has his spot in the top 4 on the right hand side assuming Myers gets chosen

I'm under the belief either Trouba plays for the Jets or he plays in the KHL until he is 27.
You really buy the RHD story Overhardt is spewing?

Also Copp > Lowry IMO.

Further: We don't want to lose Myers in order to keep our 5th best forward.

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Old
10-31-2016, 05:46 PM
  #110
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Expose Perreault.

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Old
10-31-2016, 05:51 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
I still think we should try and work out a deal involving us exposing Trouba and getting LVs lotto pick.
Vegas is not going to give the Jets their first pick for Trouba. Just never ever going to happen. That first pick is huge for marketing reason if nothing else. A traded player, particularly a defenseman that doesn't have the eye popping stats, is just not going to do that.

This hand wringing over the expansion draft is kinda funny to me. Armia, Dano, Lowry, Postma, Copp, whoever the Vegas team takes is ok. Every single organization in the NHL is going to lose a similar player.

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Old
10-31-2016, 05:55 PM
  #112
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capfriendly.com says that Copp is exempt in the Expansion Draft. Likely because this is Copp's second FULL NHL season, off an Entry Level contract.

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Old
10-31-2016, 06:22 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briscodog;12387f2807
Expose Perreault.
Not before Lowry, but before the end if the season I wonder if Armia and / or Dano make a strong case to be protected over Perreault. I hope Perreault is just in a slump... he really hasn't been good as a C in the top six

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Old
10-31-2016, 06:28 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Jaffray15 View Post
capfriendly.com says that Copp is exempt in the Expansion Draft. Likely because this is Copp's second FULL NHL season, off an Entry Level contract.
I think Cap Friendly may have it wrong with Copp. Generalfanager before it disappeared did not have him exempt.

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Old
10-31-2016, 06:38 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by jessewjames View Post

You really buy the RHD story Overhardt is spewing?

Also Copp > Lowry IMO.

Further: We don't want to lose Myers in order to keep our 5th best forward.
No I don't buy the RHD argument. Force Trouba's hand though, offer him exactly what he is asking for by getting rid of a mediocre (at best) 3/4 Defenseman. If Trouba still refuses, let him play in the KHL until he is 27. The kid will give in if that's his only option.

Is Copp better than Lowry? Even if you believe that do you actually believe another NHL team does as well?

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Old
10-31-2016, 06:54 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayofthedogs View Post
No I don't buy the RHD argument. Force Trouba's hand though, offer him exactly what he is asking for by getting rid of a mediocre (at best) 3/4 Defenseman. If Trouba still refuses, let him play in the KHL until he is 27. The kid will give in if that's his only option.

Is Copp better than Lowry? Even if you believe that do you actually believe another NHL team does as well?
Yes I do think that Copp could be valued higher than Lowry by the time the season is over.

But it's all moot anyway because of my third point in my post which you did not address:
We are not going to expose Myers in order to keep our 5th best forward.

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Old
10-31-2016, 07:18 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by jessewjames View Post
Yes I do think that Copp could be valued higher than Lowry by the time the season is over.

But it's all moot anyway because of my third point in my post which you did not address:
We are not going to expose Myers in order to keep our 5th best forward.
[mod]

We don't expose Myers for our 5th best forward although it could be argued our 5th best forward would have a higher positive impact on our team than Myers. NOT only that but we loose 1 Myers and add 1 Trouba.... plus we keep our 5th best forward.

That's a net gain in my books.

Myers is generally overrated.


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 11-01-2016 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Comment on posts only.
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Old
10-31-2016, 07:22 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Vegas is not going to give the Jets their first pick for Trouba. Just never ever going to happen. That first pick is huge for marketing reason if nothing else. A traded player, particularly a defenseman that doesn't have the eye popping stats, is just not going to do that.

This hand wringing over the expansion draft is kinda funny to me. Armia, Dano, Lowry, Postma, Copp, whoever the Vegas team takes is ok. Every single organization in the NHL is going to lose a similar player.
I think the marketability reasons for making that pick are so overblown. Do you remember who San Jose, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Florida or Carolina choose with their first draft picks without looking them up? I'm going to bet probably not and I bet a good chunk of their fans don't know either.
They get a young 1st pairing defencemen or take their lotto chances and end up drafting 7th for all they know. For a team whose looking to compete out of the gate and ice a strong team that could be huge. Otherwise they could end up with someone that could take 3-4 years to make the roster. If you are the GM of Vegas you'd be a fool not to take that deal.

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Old
10-31-2016, 07:25 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayofthedogs View Post
[mod]

We don't expose Myers for our 5th best forward although it could be argued our 5th best forward would have a higher positive impact on our team than Myers. NOT only that but we loose 1 Myers and add 1 Trouba.... plus we keep our 5th best forward.

That's a net gain in my books.

Myers is generally overrated.

I'll play your game though since I'm bored and working Halloween night: you want Myers gone to make room for Trouba?
What really puzzles me is how you'd rather just expose Myers instead of trading him for a nice return.


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 11-01-2016 at 03:45 AM. Reason: QEP
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Old
10-31-2016, 07:27 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
I think the marketability reasons for making that pick are so overblown. Do you remember who San Jose, Anaheim, Tampa Bay, Florida or Carolina choose with their first draft picks without looking them up? I'm going to bet probably not and I bet a good chunk of their fans don't know either.
They get a young 1st pairing defencemen or take their lotto chances and end up drafting 7th for all they know. For a team whose looking to compete out of the gate and ice a strong team that could be huge. Otherwise they could end up with someone that could take 3-4 years to make the roster. If you are the GM of Vegas you'd be a fool not to take that deal.
Well first off they can't draft lower than 6th. Second of course it doesn't matter NOW 25 years later, it mattered at the time though. That's big. The value would have to be much higher for a nearly guaranteed top 5 pick already, then you add the marketing issues and half aware GM that knows they won't be a serious threat out of the gate and it's just not a deal that will happen.

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10-31-2016, 07:39 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by jessewjames View Post



I'll play your game though since I'm bored and working Halloween night: you want Myers gone to make room for Trouba?
What really puzzles me is how you'd rather just expose Myers instead of trading him for a nice return.
Because then I can pretty much operate knowing who exactly will go in expansion. that gives a bit of freedom. Otherwise I have to plan for the unknown. I suppose there is some redundancy in Copp/Lowry and Armia/Dano so loosing 1 is not heartbreaking.

With that all said. Myers is turning 27 in a few months. I don't believe he is the picture of health either and I'm worried that a tall lanky guy like him is going to break down soonish. I also think we have witnessed Myers best hockey.

All the forwards that are protected after Scheif/Wheels/Little/MP are still fairly young with their best hockey in front of them.

I'd rather loose no one but that's not an option. I can live without Myers if Trouba comes back. If Trouba doesn't want to come back.... trade him for a package of expansion protected defensive prospects say 2 or 3 and Protect Myers and keep all our forwards anyways.

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10-31-2016, 07:41 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Well first off they can't draft lower than 6th. Second of course it doesn't matter NOW 25 years later, it mattered at the time though. That's big. The value would have to be much higher for a nearly guaranteed top 5 pick already, then you add the marketing issues and half aware GM that knows they won't be a serious threat out of the gate and it's just not a deal that will happen.
My bad thought they had the 4th pick. Just looked it up and it's the 3rd so yeah worst is 6th.
I think this Vegas GM and ownership know without a doubt that if they don't ice a competitive team quickly that the brand could quickly die off. What is more important marketing a pick that may not make it to the NHL for years or getting a young top pairing defender that can be the face of the franchise for years to come the moment they hit the ice? If they are smart enough they take Trouba and run. On top of the rest of the guys they will get which likely includes a pretty solid netminder they should be a competitive team. Why take your chances on a pick that may not even make it when you have a top pairing defender whose ready to play first pairing minutes and may even sign long term.

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Old
10-31-2016, 07:54 PM
  #123
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Because then I can pretty much operate knowing who exactly will go in expansion. that gives a bit of freedom. Otherwise I have to plan for the unknown.
If every GM thinks like that Vegas is going to win the Stanley Cup next year!

No thank you.

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10-31-2016, 08:02 PM
  #124
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If every GM thinks like that Vegas is going to win the Stanley Cup next year!

No thank you.
You've never bothered to address the key point of my reasoning. That is Myers isn't that good plus he's coming off of multiple surgeries. Trouba is the better Dman anyways. Basically I'm suggesting dumping a 5/6 Dman with a 5.5 Million dollar cap hit for the next 2 years and running a top 4 of Buff/Toby/JoMo/Trouba.

Plus we keep all our forwards.

If you think a Stanley Cup champion will be built on the back of Tyler Myers you haven't been paying attention.

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Old
10-31-2016, 08:03 PM
  #125
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My bad thought they had the 4th pick. Just looked it up and it's the 3rd so yeah worst is 6th.
I think this Vegas GM and ownership know without a doubt that if they don't ice a competitive team quickly that the brand could quickly die off. What is more important marketing a pick that may not make it to the NHL for years or getting a young top pairing defender that can be the face of the franchise for years to come the moment they hit the ice? If they are smart enough they take Trouba and run. On top of the rest of the guys they will get which likely includes a pretty solid netminder they should be a competitive team. Why take your chances on a pick that may not even make it when you have a top pairing defender whose ready to play first pairing minutes and may even sign long term.
I think your vastly overrating Trouba and the impact that he would have marketing wise.

A top pick is always going to be a boon marketing wise. Particularly as it's very likely to be a top 3-4 pick. A defenseman who has never cracked 30 points? Not so much. Here I'm just talking marketing wise.

Vegas is going to be decent, but a GM is going to know they aren't going to be anything like a cup threat out of the gate. A guy like Trouba is not even close to putting them over the top. They are going to get plenty of young decent assets to be competitive out of the gate (guys like Armia and Dano will be available league wide). I think your overrating Trouba a bit. He is just not that good yet or that big a name for them to risk that all important first pick.

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