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I Would Trade Koivu

View Poll Results: ?
Trade Him 38 22.35%
Re-sign long-term 93 54.71%
Finish the season and worry about it later 39 22.94%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-22-2006, 12:26 PM
  #26
Medicine Twin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aymand
As much as it pains me to say this.. I agree.

If we can get a blue-chip prospect and a 2nd rounder, I'd do it.
And good luck with that. Koivu's a pending UFA. We'd get more out of keeping Koivu then we would in a trade I gaurantee it. That's what you people fail to understand.

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01-22-2006, 12:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Medicine Twin
Totally agree. I mean, he has slowed down slightly and you'll notice the difference in the playoffs but he's still one of the hardest work players out there.

I really think many of you guys expect way too much from a captain. If Zednik or Ribeiro or anyone doesn't pull their weight out there it Koivu's fault? BS!! He's only one man, and he's a fine captain IMO.
In the playoffs? He led the team in scoring in the 2004 playoffs. He and Kovalev were by far the best players in the series against the Bruins. He played with broken ribs and I'm sure that slowed him down against the Lightning.

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01-22-2006, 12:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by waffledave
Fine, compare him to the rest of the league. His PPG is 1.00. How does that rank?
Hr compares very well with Brendan Morrison, who has played 48 games with a Canucks, a much stronger team. If you go to the NHL site you'll see that for someone who has played only 35 games, Koivu is #35 among centers.

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01-22-2006, 12:30 PM
  #29
Medicine Twin
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
No, it's not the biggest problem. It's the defense. The forwards would score more if the puck weren't in the Habs end of the ice most of the time. Look at the difference in shots on goal between the Habs and their opponents for most of the season.
Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!! We have a winner!!

Quicker puck-posession in our end and forwards supporting the defence is the way. We can't control the offensive zone if we don't get there in the first place.

This team needs a good veteran d-man. Oh, the difference it would make.

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01-22-2006, 12:32 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck
In the playoffs? He led the team in scoring in the 2004 playoffs. He and Kovalev were by far the best players in the series against the Bruins. He played with broken ribs and I'm sure that slowed him down against the Lightning.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

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01-22-2006, 12:34 PM
  #31
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by Sam Losco
Why do people believe this?

If Koivu's line- and only Koivu's line- (our offensive leaders) were told to focus on offence a little more, they would be spending alot more time in the other teams zone. Tiring out their defence and players on the ice. Last time I checked, you can't score from your own zone.
Koivu still spends time kiling penalties. He shouldn't (and neither should Kovalev, although he, too, is out there), but Julien and Gainey seem to think that with the Habs falling behind most of the time and taking so many stupid penalties they need an offensive threat while they're shorthanded.

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01-22-2006, 12:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
I no longer rank Koivu based on his PPG production. You can count on him missing part of the season, so that factors into his overall contribution. The bottom line is that he has 35 points this year. And even if he were around a PPG player over the entire season so far, so what? That would put him somewhere in the top 40. Contending teams have 2-3 guys in the top 30. This is what the Habs should be aiming for.
I suppose you consider Higgins to be in that category too. He's out right now and he missed games with the Bulldogs. Or how about Zednik and Bégin?

As for the 2-3 guys in the top 30, you have to take the strength of the team into consideration. Look at the point men on the power play. After Markov there's no one. How do you think Ribeiro got so many points last season? Souray was on fire and scored 15 goals. This season, Souray has shrunk back to his normal size and Ribeiro is nothing.

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01-22-2006, 12:50 PM
  #33
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Koivu is my favorite player.. I'm not suggesting downright trading him. But if a good offer is on the table, I'd do it.

Example, if Ottaw decides they absolutely need a top 2 centre to go deep in the playoffs... maybe Meszaros plus a 4th rounder could get them Koivu or Wight or Jokinen.

I'd do it if I was Montreal.

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01-22-2006, 12:54 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by aymand
Koivu is my favorite player.. I'm not suggesting downright trading him. But if a good offer is on the table, I'd do it.

Example, if Ottaw decides they absolutely need a top 2 centre to go deep in the playoffs... maybe Meszaros plus a 4th rounder could get them Koivu or Wight or Jokinen.

I'd do it if I was Montreal.
They won't be trading Meszeros (the guy I wanted in the draft actually) for UFA centermen. Ottawa will never (not this season) be that desperate.

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01-22-2006, 01:01 PM
  #35
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I would do a firesale after each lost and go for the cup after each victory.

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01-22-2006, 01:13 PM
  #36
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The first move i would do if i was Gainey , would be to re-sign Koivu . That would give him more latitude to trade him , or more stability to the team , if he decides to keep him . The only problem is how much Koivu wants .

The Habs needs to go to the playoffs because of the money issue ; i doubt that Gainey is going to give it up for now.

I suppose that if ever he decides to deals Koivu , it's going to be later . So , by now , we don't have anybody in the team that can be trade with a good return , exepted Markov ( i never would do that )or a pack of 2-3 players .

Theodore is burning every little possibilities of being trade with his poor play . We are probably stick with him for a long time.

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01-22-2006, 01:35 PM
  #37
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The only way I would trade Koivu is if we could get another pick to trade on draft day to move up and select Staal. And build around him. If we can't I would sign Koivu long term and build around him for the next 4-5 years.

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01-22-2006, 01:42 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedave
This is something I've been mulling over for a while. But I think now is the time to trade Koivu, assuming he could get a good prospect and a draft pick like most good rentals can. There's a lot of demand already for Jokinen and Weight, and Koivu is roughly equivalent in value.

Why would I do this? One, because I'm starting to wonder about his leadership. Maybe he's not a bad leader, but something is clearly not working with him as captain. The slump leading up to the Julien firing, the rumours about divided locker-room running on several years now, and then the particularly bad team habit of not showing for the first period of big games. Some of that has to fall on his shoulders. A captain has to do more.

Two, because he's still a good player to a playoff team who could bring a good return. Relatedly, I'm not sure that he's worth re-signing for the long term. There are the injuries, so-so production for a top center, and the leadership question. I don't see the Habs rising to contendership with him as a 4million dollar captain for the next 4-5 years.

Anyway, I know people will protest, but it just seems to be the better option for the long-term.
that's so stupid... Trading away the heart and soul of your team, how smart is that.

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01-22-2006, 01:48 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by waffledave
Fine, compare him to the rest of the league. His PPG is 1.00. How does that rank?
30-36th.

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01-22-2006, 01:55 PM
  #40
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For anyone doubting Koivus leadership qualities... Havent you noticed how the team falls apart soon after hes injured? This year Habs did pretty well for couple games without Kovalev, but after losing Koivu the troubles began. We have no-one to step credible enough to fill the void.

I'm hoping for two things: a) Gainey brings one or two veteran character guys for backup - b) makes deal for of top line centerman, so that Saku didnt need to carry the team on his back, physically.

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01-22-2006, 02:12 PM
  #41
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I'd trade Koivu, but only as part of an ambitious program to rebuild the team, not to substitute another player for him. This talk about his captaincy is drivel and does not account for the poor performance of the team. The overall quality was poor under Julien and it still is under Gainey. How many players are really worth keeping? Why is Perreault flourishing in Phoenix and Brisebois in Colorado? It has a lot to do with their teammates. Speaking of Perreault, don't Habs fans wish Ribeiro was putting up similar numbers? And wasn't Brisebois better than Dandenault is now?

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Old
01-22-2006, 02:31 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loudi94
I wish he would fetch that price. Last season he would have for sure, but how this new NHL structure will play out remains to be seen. BTW give me an example of a blue-chip prospect.
Well, that's the real question. I think he has very good value, even as a rental. Some people even argue that rentals are more valuable than in years past precisely because of the flexibility. A few years ago Ottawa gave up Gleason for Smolinksi, Philly gave up Ouellet, a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Oates, and Montreal gave up Balej and a 2nd for Kovalev. That's a pretty wide range of comparable situations.

The problem is the inherent risk of trading for a prospect. The Gleason deal has been great for LA, but Ouellet never lived up to his billing and Washington more or less squandered its picks. Apparently NY had a choice of prospects, among them Plekanec and possibly Higgins (IIRC), and they chose badly.

I've posted it elsewhere, but for example from Nashville I'd be content with Parent and a pick (though one can hope in vain for Weber or Suter). Calgary doesn't have the kind of defensive prospects that are really enticing, but Philly always drafts well. Downie would be appealing, for instance. It would absolutely have to be a good prospect to make it worthwhile. I have enough confidence in the Habs scouting staff to take that chance.

Anyway, it's not about trading Koivu just to get him off the team. If there are some good offers out there, as there will probably will be, I think Gainey ought to explore them. I'm aware of the tendency to panic after a disgraceful loss, but the question of where the Habs are going has been hanging over the team for a while.

I'm just not sure that treading water is the way to go. If the team continues to struggle, then it might be time to start a more thorough renovation program. As it is now, Koivu is one of the best trade assets who also represents a big decision as to the long-term direction of the team.

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Old
01-22-2006, 02:31 PM
  #43
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This core is bringing us nowhere. Koivu's been here for 10 seasons and we never went past the second round and we've missed playoffs a bunch of times, it's time for a change.

The only players I wouldn't trade in this whole team are Markov and Ryder, that's it.


Last edited by Malakhov: 01-22-2006 at 02:38 PM.
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Old
01-22-2006, 03:41 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by franchise player
that's so stupid... Trading away the heart and soul of your team, how smart is that.
First , this board have rules concerning the use of insulting words ...go to read them.

second , Saku is the heart and soul of a our team, yes, but that team is going nowhere, so ...

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01-22-2006, 03:47 PM
  #45
goalchenyuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman2
For anyone doubting Koivus leadership qualities... Havent you noticed how the team falls apart soon after hes injured? This year Habs did pretty well for couple games without Kovalev, but after losing Koivu the troubles began. We have no-one to step credible enough to fill the void.

I'm hoping for two things: a) Gainey brings one or two veteran character guys for backup - b) makes deal for of top line centerman, so that Saku didnt need to carry the team on his back, physically.
Troubles began when Kovalev got injured if not sooner.

When Koivu got injured , that was our 2 best players + markov that were out . It is normal that it was worst at that moment . The players have lost their confidence little by little , so now they have to rebuild it .

I agree with you about the comming of a first centerman ...Koivu would hurt less the team if he get injured

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01-22-2006, 04:02 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
This core is bringing us nowhere. Koivu's been here for 10 seasons and we never went past the second round and we've missed playoffs a bunch of times, it's time for a change.

The only players I wouldn't trade in this whole team are Markov and Ryder, that's it.
ok... lol

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01-22-2006, 04:09 PM
  #47
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Our team lacks one big aspect and that's consistantcy. Up to now, only a small group of our players have consistantly produced. Those players are Markov, Ryder (offensively), Murray, Rivet, Bulis (except for his little slump) and Koivu. If we get rid of these players, our team will go nowhere. I beleive that our problem isn't lack of talent but more lack of effort. If Kovalev , Ribeiro, Zednik and Theodore can play at at lest half their potential every game then we ahve no problem but this isn't happening. I beleive BG noticed this and that's why he went behind the bench, to give the team a scare, to make them work harder, day in day out. Something has to be done but trading Koivu isn't the solution.

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01-22-2006, 04:19 PM
  #48
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I'm really not too high on trading our Captain who, although injured at times this season, is still leading the team in points and is at a point per game. He does everything. I don't care if he's small or if his value is high right now, so what. I can't see a Habs team without Koivu in the picture.

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01-22-2006, 04:29 PM
  #49
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I'm not sure shopping Koivu around is a wise move. First of all, we'd be left with Ribeiro/Bonk/Plekanec as the alternatives. Not an appealing prospect.

I doubt his value is that high as a pending UFA (unless we sign him first longterm). Sure, teams want him, but will they give us their bluechip d for him? No.

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01-22-2006, 04:39 PM
  #50
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Problem with Saks is the same problem are d-men are face with. They don't play the role they are suppose to play. He should be no better than a 2nd centerman.

As far as the ''C'' is concerned, it depends of what you want to see in a Captain, but if you do want a Yakkity-Yak type of a guy, give him two ''A'' that speaks loudly and then let Saks do his job on the ice and show by example. You then have the best of both worlds.

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