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OT: Ovechkin

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Old
01-23-2006, 02:12 PM
  #26
reaper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
well i'm just saying that you really show how bias you are if you think crosby doesn't have a better future ahead of him then lundqvist at this point and at the same time try to argue he's having a better year then ovechkin

it really kills any argument that you have when saying Lundqvist should get the calder over AO who is clearly having a better year with much more to over come because to me anyway that one alone is just not true
Why should Crosby turn out better then Hank? Sure, Crosby is talented, but I don't see him as being the next one and frankly I think AO will develop better than Crosby will. Lundqvist has been in the top for saves% and GAA the whole season so far this is much more impressive as a rookie than Crosby has accomplished. Remember that it takes longer time to develop as a goaltender than as a forward. Hank has so far had the most impressive start as a rookie goaltender for a very very long time. He has won several games for Rangers and if Crosby was as good as the hype wouldn't he have won some more games for the Penguins? To me AO and Lundqvist is head and shoulders above the rest of the rookies this season with Crosby, Phaneuf, Prucha and maybe some others trailing for the 3rd spot.

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01-23-2006, 02:40 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper
Why should Crosby turn out better then Hank? Sure, Crosby is talented, but I don't see him as being the next one and frankly I think AO will develop better than Crosby will. Lundqvist has been in the top for saves% and GAA the whole season so far this is much more impressive as a rookie than Crosby has accomplished. Remember that it takes longer time to develop as a goaltender than as a forward. Hank has so far had the most impressive start as a rookie goaltender for a very very long time. He has won several games for Rangers and if Crosby was as good as the hype wouldn't he have won some more games for the Penguins? To me AO and Lundqvist is head and shoulders above the rest of the rookies this season with Crosby, Phaneuf, Prucha and maybe some others trailing for the 3rd spot.
Ask that same question about Mario his first year on the Pens.

Man, you guys are nuts about hatin' on Crosby, give it a rest.

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01-23-2006, 02:44 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13
Ask that same question about Mario his first year on the Pens.

Man, you guys are nuts about hatin' on Crosby, give it a rest.
I don't hate him, I just think he is a tad overhyped

If his name was Stellan Skarsgård and he was from Sweden do you think he would have been called the next one? Crosby will turn out a great player I'm sure I just don't think he will be "the one". I'm just more impressed with Ovechkin and Lundqvists performance, all three of these will be superstars for many years to come...

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Old
01-23-2006, 05:15 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper
I don't hate him, I just think he is a tad overhyped

If his name was Stellan Skarsgård and he was from Sweden do you think he would have been called the next one? Crosby will turn out a great player I'm sure I just don't think he will be "the one". I'm just more impressed with Ovechkin and Lundqvists performance, all three of these will be superstars for many years to come...
The kid is 18 years old! (18 BAST FFS!) being in the top of the league in points in his rookie season playing for the Pens! Players that do that is a very rare breed.

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Old
01-23-2006, 05:24 PM
  #30
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I think Sid will have a fantastic, HOF-caliber career. Even though I'm an anti-fan when it comes to the Caps (I love ribbing the fans here in DC), I simply love Ovechkin. On the puck, off the puck, if you lose track of the guy for a second he'll burn you. He also plays amazingly physical considering how gifted he is offensively. I just can't remember seeing a play so committed in the defensive end, while also possessing his skill set offensively. I think Ove will be THE player of his generation. It's too bad he's a Ruskie, I think he'd get even more recognition if he were a Canuck.

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Old
01-23-2006, 08:58 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by midclasscasualty
It's too bad he's a Ruskie, I think he'd get even more recognition if he were a Canuck.
I totally agree and I think that is the main difference between the two, their nationality. There seems to be a bias against Eastern European and Russian hockey players and people think of them as soft and demanding (can't disagree with that totally). But it seems to me so far that Crosby is the complainer while AO plays and is just having fun (always has a big smile on his face). I think people are justified for ribbing Crosby.

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Old
01-24-2006, 01:36 AM
  #32
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Ovechkin has 62 points in 46 games, which is good for 7th in the league as of today. He also has 33 goals, SECOND only to Ilya Kovalchuk who has 35 goals. Ovechkin is trailing Jagr by 9 points for the league lead, while Jagr has played in 3 more games than Alex. As someone mentioned before, the second leading scorer in Washington is Dainius Zubrus who has 25 points in 36 games. Dainius has never had a 20 goal or a 50 point season in his long and illustrious career. I guess my point is that while Alex has 7th largest point amount in the league and scored 33 goals, he does not have any type of decent support, which is the point shown previously in this thread. He does not even have washouts such as Straka, Rucinsky, Nylander to support him. Nor does he have the Justin Williamses, Corey Stillmans and Patrick Marleaus. I'm not even going to talk about the All-Star Atlanta and Ottawa lines - Kovalchuk-Savard-Hossa and Alfredsson-Spezza-Heatley. I'm trying to say here is that if Red Bull would've had a Scott Gomez or a Rod Brind'amour as his center or a Brian Gionta as his opposite wing, Alex may have had a scoring lead at this point of the season. I do not recall rookies winning Art Ross trophies (Gretzky perhaps?), but with better support Alex certainly would've had a better chance.

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Old
01-24-2006, 01:44 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
I don't think that.......anymore.

I still do, mainly because it's a most valuable player award. Ovechkin might make a good case for the Pearson (best player as voted by his peers) but Jagr has this team heading for the playoffs for the first time in 9 years. Take Ovechkin out of his team, they're still not a playoff team. Take Jagr off the Rangers and this team goes from possibly a top 4 seed in the East to a team that's picking top 10 in the draft.

That's not a knock on Ovechkin, but the value Jagr the impact Jagr has had on this team this year cannot be overlooked. The MVP award is not just who leads the league in scoring, but who is most valuable to his team. PArt of that equation usually intails results. That's the big difference between best player and most valuable, and those lines can get really thin sometimes.

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01-24-2006, 02:44 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I still do, mainly because it's a most valuable player award. Ovechkin might make a good case for the Pearson (best player as voted by his peers) but Jagr has this team heading for the playoffs for the first time in 9 years. Take Ovechkin out of his team, they're still not a playoff team. Take Jagr off the Rangers and this team goes from possibly a top 4 seed in the East to a team that's picking top 10 in the draft.

That's not a knock on Ovechkin, but the value Jagr the impact Jagr has had on this team this year cannot be overlooked. The MVP award is not just who leads the league in scoring, but who is most valuable to his team. PArt of that equation usually intails results. That's the big difference between best player and most valuable, and those lines can get really thin sometimes.
Jagr is a very important piece to our puzzle, but I think Melrose was speaking about Hank being our most valuable player if I'm not mistaken. Personally, I think we've gotten thru these last few weeks relying more on Lundie than a hurt Jagr.

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Old
01-24-2006, 03:02 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
well i'm just saying that you really show how bias you are if you think crosby doesn't have a better future ahead of him then lundqvist at this point and at the same time try to argue he's having a better year then ovechkin

it really kills any argument that you have when saying Lundqvist should get the calder over AO who is clearly having a better year with much more to over come because to me anyway that one alone is just not true
First of all as I said I think that post was edited as I thought it was talking about Ovechkin and Crosby and then someone also brought up AO and Crosby. But I still say that how do you know that Crosby's future is better than Lundqvist's? Lundqvist has been a top 5 at least goalie this year and can be the best goalie in the league I believe. Crosby can be the best forward in the league. Either way you don't know who'll be better. Just because you think that Crosby has a better future doesn't make it the case. Does your opinion equal fact and everyone else's equal nonsense that gives them no credibility? And what does Lundqvist maybe having a better future than Crosby, where in the world did I say he WILL (YOU lose all credibility for making stuff up for the purpose of your argument, I just said he won't necessarily), have to do with me thinking that Lundqvist has been better this year? Also, YOU say that Ovechkin has had a better year than Lundqvist. Me disagreeing doesn't make me biased. I'm as entitled to an opinion as you and that doesn't make me lose credibility. Lundqvist has been one of the best goalies in the league and Ovechkin forwards, Lundqvist carried his team so far to a chance at the playoffs, Ovechkin has carried his team to a chance at the #1 overall pick. And if that makes me lose all credibility in your eyes, then so be it.

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Old
01-24-2006, 04:04 PM
  #36
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i dont remember editing any post

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Old
01-25-2006, 08:03 PM
  #37
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Being a Huge Rangers fan...and a caps fan bc of Peter Bondra...I'm excited about both teams having Great Future Talents in Ovechkin and Lundqvist. Ovechkin gets my tally for Calder as hes a dominant player on a mediocre team. if your able to go to a game...(unfourtunatly i live in dallas, so i wont get to see him for another three years or so) you will see just how much better he his then any player on both teams. So much effort, and seems like hes out there every shift. Its too bad to see that he's stuck with a supporting cast of Zubrus and Halpern and Ben Clymer but he has this team on his back and carrying them just like Lundqvist. I cant wait for the olympics as seeing him on a rumored line of Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Kovalchuk will be a treat to see. Yeah Lundqvist might not be behind the best d-fense but has a def better supporting cast then that in Washington. Ovechkin is the reason the caps aren't the bottom-feeders of the league, and as of late has the team headed in the right direction.

Rookies Ranked.
1. Ovechkin
2. Lundqvist
3. Crosby
4. Phaneuf
5. Svatos
6. Miller
7. Prucha

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Old
01-25-2006, 08:48 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
well i'm just saying that you really show how bias you are if you think crosby doesn't have a better future ahead of him then lundqvist at this point and at the same time try to argue he's having a better year then ovechkin

it really kills any argument that you have when saying Lundqvist should get the calder over AO who is clearly having a better year with much more to over come because to me anyway that one alone is just not true
I would not say that Ovechin is clearly having a better year then then Lundqvist. I also feel there is alot more presure on a goalie then a forward (especally a Rookie goalie). If a forward (Ovechin) has a few bad games at least he has a couple line mates to somewhat cover it up or atleast pick up the slack where as a goalie stands alone there is no one standing beside him to watch his back. Alot of people say that Lundqvest has the advandage because he comes from a better team but if we had to go with Weeks as a #1 and not Lundqvest it would be a diferent story. On most nights that Lundqvest is in goal weather we win or loose he gives us a chance to win. He is definetly one of the reasons why we are where we are in the standings. Here is a question. Can there be to Calder winners in one year?

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