HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Blue Jay/MLB regular season thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-09-2017, 06:40 PM
  #501
Jepprey
Creeper
 
Jepprey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondcake View Post
it may not be a good year to blow it up since their prospects are years away......but i'm not sure I "dig" the "its just not our year" approach.

I'd move anyone of value for prospects.....try to move the least impactful value player....and probably fire the manager.....then next year you decide whether to go full blowey.
There's still a two year window or so. After that, they definitely have to take the hit and build around Sanchez, Stroman and Osuna. This team is too damn old now.

With Tulo's contract being basically unmovable, there isn't much there as Martin, Morales and Smoak are expiring in 2020. Whether or not they'll be able to keep Donaldson, likely not, the team will get a new facelift up and down the lineup.

Gibby needs out too. Never been a fan and I still can't believe they brought him back.

Jepprey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2017, 07:53 PM
  #502
shoop
Registered User
 
shoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,193
vCash: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jepprey View Post
So I want to tweak the lineup like get rid of expiring contracts to be competitive next year while hoping they can turn it around rest of the year. While, you want what? Didn't you just say you wanted to re-tool as well, but also wanting to lose? Wtf? lol. I guess that's the only difference. I want them to win. Whoosh.
That's fine if you want to agree with what I'm saying and laugh at me.

There is no turning it around this year.

Laugh all you want, but they can't go .500 the rest of the way without ridiculous overpays for trades. There is no reason to overpay.

Not saying I don't want them to win. Just saying I don't want them to sacrifice next season, and player development, for a futile run at a wildcard game this season.

Use the rest of the season for player development. That may lead to a few more losses than desired, but the goal isn't to lose games. Give Vlad Jr. and Bo Bichette some at bats in the majors. Jr. could be an in-house replacement for Donaldson after 2018.

If there are going to be some tweaks the goal should be to position the Jays to make a run next season.

They lost 19-1 today!!!

shoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2017, 08:25 PM
  #503
Jepprey
Creeper
 
Jepprey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
That's fine if you want to agree with what I'm saying and laugh at me.

There is no turning it around this year.

Laugh all you want, but they can't go .500 the rest of the way without ridiculous overpays for trades. There is no reason to overpay.

Not saying I don't want them to win. Just saying I don't want them to sacrifice next season, and player development, for a futile run at a wildcard game this season.


Use the rest of the season for player development. That may lead to a few more losses than desired, but the goal isn't to lose games. Give Vlad Jr. and Bo Bichette some at bats in the majors. Jr. could be an in-house replacement for Donaldson after 2018.

If there are going to be some tweaks the goal should be to position the Jays to make a run next season.

They lost 19-1 today!!!
You do realize why I'm laughing right? You keep assuming things I never even say. NEVER once did I want them to trade all in and go for it this season. NEVER once did I say they should sacrifice this season. Legit confusing me lol.

Jepprey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2017, 08:31 PM
  #504
shoop
Registered User
 
shoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,193
vCash: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jepprey View Post
You do realize why I'm laughing right? You keep assuming things I never even say. NEVER once did I want them to trade all in and go for it this season. NEVER once did I say they should sacrifice this season. Legit confusing me lol.
I don't care why you are laughing. It simply shows the inner character of the person. As does the all caps.

The Jays aren't very good. They lost 19-1 today. You've ignored that repeatedly.

shoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2017, 09:33 PM
  #505
Jepprey
Creeper
 
Jepprey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
I don't care why you are laughing. It simply shows the inner character of the person. As does the all caps.

The Jays aren't very good. They lost 19-1 today. You've ignored that repeatedly.
Relax. It's not a shot against you. I'm not laughing at you. What about my character? What?

What do I have to respond to about the 19-1 score? Didn't they won 7-2 yesterday? They split against the best team in AL? What is your point? Atlanta beat Washington 13-0 yesterday too.

Jepprey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2017, 09:52 PM
  #506
shoop
Registered User
 
shoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,193
vCash: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jepprey View Post
Relax. It's not a shot against you. I'm not laughing at you. What about my character? What?
There have been repeated shots at me. That's fine. If it makes you feel better good for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jepprey View Post
What do I have to respond to about the 19-1 score? Didn't they won 7-2 yesterday? They split against the best team in AL? What is your point? Atlanta beat Washington 13-0 yesterday too.
Good teams lose 19-0. You didn't address that. You attacked me again. That's about your character. Have fun with the fights and personal attacks. Find another victim.

shoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2017, 01:37 PM
  #507
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
 
OilerFan4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Heartland of Hockey
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,879
vCash: 1991
Donaldson should easily be able to fetch us two top prospects.

Time to unload.

Apparently the Cardinals are interested.

OilerFan4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2017, 01:40 PM
  #508
BoldNewLettuce
Esquire
 
BoldNewLettuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 18,510
vCash: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Donaldson should easily be able to fetch us two top prospects.

Time to unload.

Apparently the Cardinals are interested.
If there's nothing on the market for smoak or osuna then yes.

BoldNewLettuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2017, 03:19 PM
  #509
rboomercat90
Registered User
 
rboomercat90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,680
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondcake View Post
If there's nothing on the market for smoak or osuna then yes.
I don't get why anyone would want to trade Osuna. The kid is only 22. You could build around him for years. I'd move Smoak though, with the year he's having he's like found money. Atkins and Shapiro look like geniuses with that deal now.

rboomercat90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2017, 03:49 PM
  #510
lakai17
Registered User
 
lakai17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,805
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Donaldson should easily be able to fetch us two top prospects.

Time to unload.

Apparently the Cardinals are interested.
I'm sure more than just the Cards have interest.

lakai17 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2017, 01:25 AM
  #511
Jepprey
Creeper
 
Jepprey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
There have been repeated shots at me. That's fine. If it makes you feel better good for you.



Good teams lose 19-0. You didn't address that. You attacked me again. That's about your character. Have fun with the fights and personal attacks. Find another victim.
Yeah, probably best to block me. Not once have I said anything about you or your character. Later man.

Jepprey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2017, 01:27 AM
  #512
Jepprey
Creeper
 
Jepprey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Donaldson should easily be able to fetch us two top prospects.

Time to unload.

Apparently the Cardinals are interested.
IF Donaldson is moved to St. Louis, they likely target their top arms like Reyes and one of Flaherty or Weaver. But as dominant as Reyes is, a red flag is he is coming off Tommy John surgery, so there's little chance he will be an impact player as early as next year. Either way, they'll hope one of those arms are in the rotation come 2018 especially if they move Marco and Frank in a few weeks.

Jepprey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2017, 07:14 AM
  #513
shoop
Registered User
 
shoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,193
vCash: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jepprey View Post
Yeah, probably best to block me. Not once have I said anything about you or your character. Later man.
Me yes. My character no, because I behave like a grown adult. Why would I let you tell me what to do? Again, character matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
I don't get why anyone would want to trade Osuna. The kid is only 22. You could build around him for years. I'd move Smoak though, with the year he's having he's like found money. Atkins and Shapiro look like geniuses with that deal now.
I agree with you about Osuna. Since he is arbitration eligible I suspect people who want to move him are thinking full rebuild. Osuna is going to get paid this off-season. If Smoak only had one year left I'd move him. Two years makes him worth keeping around.

shoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2017, 08:42 AM
  #514
BoldNewLettuce
Esquire
 
BoldNewLettuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 18,510
vCash: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
Me yes. My character no, because I behave like a grown adult. Why would I let you tell me what to do? Again, character matters.



I agree with you about Osuna. Since he is arbitration eligible I suspect people who want to move him are thinking full rebuild. Osuna is going to get paid this off-season. If Smoak only had one year left I'd move him. Two years makes him worth keeping around.
I just still don't believe in closers maintaining value year after year. It depends what you can get for him. I assume given that the league values closers more than ever he might fetch a decent return. If not yes....you keep him.

BoldNewLettuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2017, 11:19 PM
  #515
shoop
Registered User
 
shoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,193
vCash: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondcake View Post
I just still don't believe in closers maintaining value year after year. It depends what you can get for him. I assume given that the league values closers more than ever he might fetch a decent return. If not yes....you keep him.
I agree with you on closer. There is good and bad with Osuna.

Being arbitration eligible probably makes him more desirable as a deadline pick up for a contender. A degree of control over his future, that's why I ultimately think the Jays won't trade him.

I don't think a lot of GMs will talk about it, but I suspect the anxiety thing hurts his value. He is an all-star in the best league in the world. He has to perform at an extremely high level to keep that money rolling in. Of course there is going to huge amounts of anxiety.

That's they way it is and in many respects the way it has always been.

Making multi-millions doing anything is going to be stressful for the 99% of people in that position who couldn't make anywhere near that money if they had to change jobs.

If any team needs a closer it is the Nationals. If they had a decent closer they'd be fighting with the Dodgers and Astros for the best record in baseball.

shoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 07:47 AM
  #516
rboomercat90
Registered User
 
rboomercat90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,680
vCash: 50
When did Troy Tulowitzki's speed turn into John Olerud's speed? Two questionable base running plays in last nights game where you have to wonder if he's asleep, just not into it or he knows he just can't run at all.

The first one was the double play ball where Pearce tried to avoid a tag midway between first and second base by turning and running back towards first to buy Tulo more time to score from third base. Tulo didn't even break from third on the play.

The second play was the single he hit off the top of the green monster that Beintendi miss played. Tulo should have easily played that into a double but didn't even budge off of first base. Buck and Dan tried to play that off as some great fake by Bientendi that fooled Tulo but the ball bounced for over 20 feet. I don't know how he couldn't see it.

Watching this team lately is all the evidence anyone should need that this group is done. They are horrible and guys like Tiluwitzki, Martin and even Donaldson look old and slow. Shapiro needs to abandon his plan of bringing the same core back for next year and start rebuilding now.

rboomercat90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 11:57 AM
  #517
Not Robin Brownlee
The docile tones!
 
Not Robin Brownlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
When did Troy Tulowitzki's speed turn into John Olerud's speed? Two questionable base running plays in last nights game where you have to wonder if he's asleep, just not into it or he knows he just can't run at all.

The first one was the double play ball where Pearce tried to avoid a tag midway between first and second base by turning and running back towards first to buy Tulo more time to score from third base. Tulo didn't even break from third on the play.

The second play was the single he hit off the top of the green monster that Beintendi miss played. Tulo should have easily played that into a double but didn't even budge off of first base. Buck and Dan tried to play that off as some great fake by Bientendi that fooled Tulo but the ball bounced for over 20 feet. I don't know how he couldn't see it.

Watching this team lately is all the evidence anyone should need that this group is done. They are horrible and guys like Tiluwitzki, Martin and even Donaldson look old and slow. Shapiro needs to abandon his plan of bringing the same core back for next year and start rebuilding now.
if he stretches that one in extra innings, he probably gets injured.

Not Robin Brownlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 12:10 PM
  #518
rboomercat90
Registered User
 
rboomercat90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,680
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Robin Brownlee View Post
if he stretches that one in extra innings, he probably gets injured.
Same thing for the other play too. He should have scored on the play and didn't even try. Should have stretched that single into a double and didn't even try. That's what it's come to with him. Old, broken down and slow. He isn't the only one and that's what makes it painful to watch this team. I sure hope we aren't watching this same team again next year, one year older.

rboomercat90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 12:46 PM
  #519
Not Robin Brownlee
The docile tones!
 
Not Robin Brownlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,341
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Same thing for the other play too. He should have scored on the play and didn't even try. Should have stretched that single into a double and didn't even try. That's what it's come to with him. Old, broken down and slow. He isn't the only one and that's what makes it painful to watch this team. I sure hope we aren't watching this same team again next year, one year older.
the left fielder did make a clever play though likely right when tulo looked at the bag, this could also be blamed on the first base coach.

Not Robin Brownlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 03:30 PM
  #520
Cloned
Dial M for Michelle
 
Cloned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 28,403
vCash: 500
Goes without saying but this will be a key offseason for the organization.

They need to make the right evaluations on whether Donaldson should be traded (and whether or not this season is the beginning of a decline for him as a player or just an injury-induced aberration) and who to keep out of Estrada, Happ, Stroman and Sanchez.

__________________

Sig AND X-mas avatar courtesy of The Nemesis

"Pull yourself together!" - Solid Snake to Otacon, multiple times in the series
Cloned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 04:05 PM
  #521
BoldNewLettuce
Esquire
 
BoldNewLettuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 18,510
vCash: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Goes without saying but this will be a key offseason for the organization.

They need to make the right evaluations on whether Donaldson should be traded (and whether or not this season is the beginning of a decline for him as a player or just an injury-induced aberration) and who to keep out of Estrada, Happ, Stroman and Sanchez.
id even trade strohman at this point......and yes to donaldson.

they are bad enough that you can't plan to contend next year.

BoldNewLettuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 04:13 PM
  #522
rboomercat90
Registered User
 
rboomercat90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,680
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
id even trade strohman at this point......and yes to donaldson.

they are bad enough that you can't plan to contend next year.
I'd keep Osuna, Stroman and Sanchez. I'd explore opportunities with anybody else.

rboomercat90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 04:16 PM
  #523
BoldNewLettuce
Esquire
 
BoldNewLettuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 18,510
vCash: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
I'd keep Osuna, Stroman and Sanchez. I'd explore opportunities with anybody else.
yeah that's valid....but having a groundball pitcher when you have a declining shortstop locked in just seems weird.

plus imo their window closed when bautista trailed off (last year)......so what are they doing now? Waiting...?

I demand a firesale?

BoldNewLettuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 04:21 PM
  #524
rboomercat90
Registered User
 
rboomercat90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,680
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
yeah that's valid....but having a groundball pitcher when you have a declining shortstop locked in just seems weird.

plus imo their window closed when bautista trailed off (last year)......so what are they doing now? Waiting...?

I demand a firesale?
Last I heard from Shapiro (within the last week) he was adamant on this just being a bad year and was planning on bringing everybody back again next year. We'll see soon enough whether or not he's serious, I guess.

rboomercat90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-19-2017, 05:03 PM
  #525
lakai17
Registered User
 
lakai17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,805
vCash: 50
Stroman I would not move ever with his skill, passion and age.

Osuna will bring back value we know, Donaldson will bring back value we know. I don't particularly want to ship Osuna like most but his value is high as it should be.

Estrada won't bring back much.

Bautista has little value but getting anything for him will be essential. This can be said about others as well.

Let's talk Smoak now, Smoak has exceeded expectations and will be 31 soon. His value could be at his highest. We've watched Smoak and I don't see him exceeding vastly over the next few seasons. I'd ship Smoak before Donaldson but Smoak is also on a decent contract. Although I'm just not super high on Smoak nor was I ever.

Vlad Jr and Bichette will be ready sooner than later.

I don't think the Jays have to blow up, I want some vets staying to mentor the younger guys and Travis will be only improving, who gets slept on.

lakai17 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.