HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers needs/Moves by the trade deadline

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-27-2006, 08:17 AM
  #76
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza
Those kinds of deals make more sense if the Rangers were to find themselves struggling to make the eighth spot or not in a position to make the playoffs period. That is not where they are at all. Currently they are in a position to possibly capture a top four spot. As I understand it, if we finish in the top four in our conference we likely have home ice advantage for the first two rounds. That is a very good position to be in.
The players I advocate trading are not a major part of the teams success. Trading them for draft picks and replacing them with those who, at a minimum, can reproduce the same result, or even improve on them, does not affect your playoff positioning. Replacing Rucchin with Immonen could improve your team. Does getting Rucinsky out of the lineup really mean that you are not in the playoff hunt? Or Neiminen? Or Roszsival?

"I'm thinking Sather and Co. see this difference as well, and recognize the need to walk a very fine line. They need to support the rebuild, but also need to support the warriors who have got them to a very respectable place in the standings thus far."

Supporting the rebuild means that you have to keep your eye on the future. Not exploring trading players that are not to be a part of the future (even the near-future) does nto do that. I would hardly call Poti, Rucchin, Rucinsky, Neiminen & Rozsival as "warriors who have got them to a very respectable place". Rucinsky was doing that at one point, but has not been a part of the solution since November. Poti's defense has improved, but not nearly enough to make a living off of. He still needs to put up points to be effective. These guys are simpy not imperrative to this teams playoff positioning. They are not a part of the future and a rebuilding team needs to turn them into assets that can be used to improve positioning on draft day.

"Also, getting as deep as we can in the play offs this year gives the young guys experience they will need as leaders in the future."

That's fine. But that can easily be accomplished w/o the players that I am talking about. And a case can be made that the team will be improved by trading some of them.

"Again as the situation stands now, I just can't see shipping players like Rucchin, Nemo, Roszival, Rucinsky, and Poti who give us playoff depth, experience and chemistry for mid-round picks."

Then, no offense intended, that is short-sided thinking. These players are not a main reason for this teams success and are not a part of the core that the Rangers will be going forward with into the future. A rebuild is not one firesale and a few good fiinds in the 7th round. A rebuild is several drafts where important talent is found. You are making it hard on yourself if you do not put a rebuilding team into a position that will allow it to improve itself on draft day.

True Blue is offline  
Old
01-27-2006, 06:19 PM
  #77
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,071
vCash: 500
Originally posted by True Blue:

”Replacing Rucchin with Immonen could improve your team. Does getting Rucinsky out of the lineup really mean that you are not in the playoff hunt? Or Neiminen? Or Roszsival?”

Let’s start with Rucchin.: If the rumors are true, why does Nashville want him. Answer: Because they think he can help them. Perhaps they are listening to Paul Kariya. He’s a pretty smart guy. As far as replacing him with Immonen, yeah it “could” help but it may well not. Unless Immonen is VERY ready to jump not only to the NHL but to the NHL playoffs. The playoffs being several levels of intensity above the NHL regular season.

Rucinsky:Taking him out of the line up damages chemistry in my opinion. He is not on top of his game right now, but he’ll come back. I’d rather go to war with him than without.

Roszival: He’s a +21 last time I checked. Best on the team. Now, a lot of folks say +/- means little or is over rated. I don’t agree. Especially if you are replacing him with Pock, who’s a defensive liability at this point from many who have seen him play. Reference the following:

http://mt.hockeybird.com/archives/003058.html

Nemo: Playing his best hockey. Just hitting his stride. Accept for the last game against Buffalo, has been a factor in just about every game recently. This guy was money with Calgary in the ’04. He will be the same thing for us. Anyone you might think of replacing him with from Hartford, can’t do nearly what he can to effect the outcome of a game. Those guys belong where they are.

Poti: Ditto all the above.

I don't' know, because I'm not in the room, but what does getting rid of all these players for some mid round picks say to the guys who are in that room, and who have been busting their ***** all year for you. If you are management and I am a player and I ask you why? You are going to respond that you are trying to build a better future. Well that tells me as a player that you do not think much of your present....which is me and my team mates.

No offense taken, but I do not believe this is short sighted thinking. Quite the contrary. It is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that a sports team in rebuilding mode can not lean too heavily towards someday. Today must be served as well. That is the fine line I'm talking about. We'll see what happens.

Pizza is offline  
Old
01-27-2006, 06:57 PM
  #78
nyr7andcounting
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch
Why would you trade Sykora in the first place? The Rangers made the trade because they are in a playoff run. Also why Moore? He is one of the best PKers on the team, he is a huge part of that HMO line, he has some skill and speed but needs to shoot more, and he's still relatively young.

I'd hesitate on Rucchin considering he's a huge part of the team chemistry.

Rucinsky wont be traded.

Poti I hope isnt traded.

Hossa has been playing better of late and I'd wait before you trade him.
I'd trade Sykora in the first place because I haven't seen a lot from him so far. I'm not saying it's realistic for him to be traded, and I said he won't be traded.

Why Moore? Honestly aside from the PK I don't think he's that great. He's smart and pretty fast, but I can't see him being any more than a solid 3rd line center. And for that role we have Betts/Rucchin for now and a lot of prospects who seem to be 3rd liners in the future.

But the biggest reason for trading Moore is that you have to give something up to get something. Teams aren't going to give up a top 3 defenseman, who's still young, for Rucchin or Hossa. Moore's a guy who other teams would want AND who I think is replaceable right now. I'm not trading Prucha, Tyutin, Lundqvist, Hollweg, so Moore's gotta be the one to go if the deal is good.

As for Hossa, wait for what? Everyone's been waiting for years. I'm done waiting. Get him off the team.

nyr7andcounting is offline  
Old
01-27-2006, 07:37 PM
  #79
nyrmessier011
Registered User
 
nyrmessier011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Charlotte/NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,350
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to nyrmessier011
Im reluctant to trade any of our youth, even Hossa UNLESS we get picks or somebody equal or younger in age. I'm not going to watch NYR trade away youth for vets just so we can win a few more playoff games, if that does happen from vets in the first place. Regardless of what we do at the deadline, we're not winning the cup or going deep into the playoffs with phily, ottawa and carolina being so tough to beat in general, and especially at home. Plain and simple i dont want anybody being traded for a 30 plus year old, I'm just sick of that old crap.

It is still a rebuilding year in a sense. If we can hang onto straka after this year ( I believe hes a UFA) and continue to develope our players and extend QOs to most of these guys, there is no reason we're not in the same or better position next year. There is no need to go trading younger guys for vets. If we are going to trade hossa i'd rather just attain a pick or an AHLer so whoever it is can provide us with something usefull in the FUTURE. I wont be accepting of a 32 year old vet being put on this team for the purposes of winning 2 more games in the playoffs.

nyrmessier011 is offline  
Old
01-28-2006, 01:25 AM
  #80
Block More Shots
Registered User
 
Block More Shots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting
I'd trade Sykora in the first place because I haven't seen a lot from him so far. I'm not saying it's realistic for him to be traded, and I said he won't be traded.
If we deal Sykora, we lose a top 6 forward. He may not put the puck in the net every night but the skill is there. As long as you put him out there with guys like Jagr, Straka, and Prucha, he's going to contribute something.

Honestly, we don't need to make any big changes at this point. If we hit a rough spot and slow down a lot (I'm talking about 5 or 6 losses in a row), I'd consider making a move. We're in the playoff hunt and playing well...the Rangers lose 1-goal games which hurts at times but they are in a position to win nearly every game they play. How can any Ranger fan argue with that? Also, the only game I truly felt we didn't have a chance was against Ottawa.

Block More Shots is offline  
Old
01-28-2006, 02:22 AM
  #81
The Dawg*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: South Africa
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
respeck to what lundmark said


when is the trade deadline this year?

The Dawg* is offline  
Old
01-28-2006, 02:33 AM
  #82
mschmidt64
Registered User
 
mschmidt64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 833
vCash: 500
You guys need to learn how to wrap quote tags around different parts of a guy's post.

Simply sticking what someone said in quotation marks like this ---> "He said xyz" does not differentiate enough from the rest of a post.

Should be like this:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow
I want to trade Jagr.
That's stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow
He isn't going to help us win a cup in the future.
Of course he will.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See how much clearer that is?

mschmidt64 is offline  
Old
01-28-2006, 09:40 AM
  #83
dank
Registered User
 
dank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschmidt64
You guys need to learn how to wrap quote tags around different parts of a guy's post.
I don't think its that big of a deal..

dank is offline  
Old
01-28-2006, 10:08 AM
  #84
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza
Let’s start with Rucchin.: If the rumors are true, why does Nashville want him. Answer: Because they think he can help them. Perhaps they are listening to Paul Kariya. He’s a pretty smart guy. As far as replacing him with Immonen, yeah it “could” help but it may well not. Unless Immonen is VERY ready to jump not only to the NHL but to the NHL playoffs.
Perhaps anything is posible. However, the fact remains that Rucchin is unfit for second line duties and the Rangers have 2 very capable bottom-2 line centers in Betts and Moore. Either can do the job just as well as Rucchin. Immonen is ready for the NHL. He can to the job of a 2nd line center at least as poorly as Rucchin can. And if he cannot, then simply allow Straka to play center and NYlander to center the other line.
Rucchin is the first odd-man out when Betts returns. Either Moore has to be moved to wing and Hollweg permanently benched, or Rucchin has to go. Rucchin is not doing anything as a third line center that Betts cannot do better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza
"Rucinsky:Taking him out of the line up damages chemistry in my opinion. He is not on top of his game right now, but he’ll come back. I’d rather go to war with him than without."
It does no such thing. Fair or unfair, he has not been the same since his injury. There are 4 spots on the top 2 line wings. By all rights, they should be filled with Straka, jagr, Sykora & Prucha. Rucinsky no longer fits into the equation. By moving him into the bottom 2 lines, then you are phasing out the role players who are a major part of our success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza
Roszival: He’s a +21 last time I checked. Best on the team. Now, a lot of folks say +/- means little or is over rated. I don’t agree. Especially if you are replacing him with Pock, who’s a defensive liability at this point from many who have seen him play. Reference the following:
We'll have to agree to disagree on the importance of the +/- stat. I find it does not show you the real player. But, in sooth, Pock did not do anything worse defensively than Rozsival did. Roszsival plays a very undisciplined game and is largely responsible for this team being short-handed most of the time. He is constantly beaten by better skaters (which is most of the league), forcing himself to either take obstuction minors (which he leads the team with) or to give up an odd-man rush (which seems to occur with regularity when he is on the ice).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza
Nemo: Playing his best hockey. Just hitting his stride. Accept for the last game against Buffalo, has been a factor in just about every game recently. This guy was money with Calgary in the ’04. He will be the same thing for us. Anyone you might think of replacing him with from Hartford, can’t do nearly what he can to effect the outcome of a game. Those guys belong where they are.
Again, another player who has no part of the future and whose role can be replicated by someone already here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza
I don't' know, because I'm not in the room, but what does getting rid of all these players for some mid round picks say to the guys who are in that room, and who have been busting their ***** all year for you. If you are management and I am a player and I ask you why? You are going to respond that you are trying to build a better future. Well that tells me as a player that you do not think much of your present....which is me and my team mates.
Is this or isn't this a rebuilding team?

True Blue is offline  
Old
01-28-2006, 04:46 PM
  #85
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Perhaps anything is posible. However, the fact remains that Rucchin is unfit for second line duties and the Rangers have 2 very capable bottom-2 line centers in Betts and Moore. Either can do the job just as well as Rucchin. Immonen is ready for the NHL. He can to the job of a 2nd line center at least as poorly as Rucchin can. And if he cannot, then simply allow Straka to play center and NYlander to center the other line.
Rucchin is the first odd-man out when Betts returns. Either Moore has to be moved to wing and Hollweg permanently benched, or Rucchin has to go. Rucchin is not doing anything as a third line center that Betts cannot do better.



It does no such thing. Fair or unfair, he has not been the same since his injury. There are 4 spots on the top 2 line wings. By all rights, they should be filled with Straka, jagr, Sykora & Prucha. Rucinsky no longer fits into the equation. By moving him into the bottom 2 lines, then you are phasing out the role players who are a major part of our success.



We'll have to agree to disagree on the importance of the +/- stat. I find it does not show you the real player. But, in sooth, Pock did not do anything worse defensively than Rozsival did. Roszsival plays a very undisciplined game and is largely responsible for this team being short-handed most of the time. He is constantly beaten by better skaters (which is most of the league), forcing himself to either take obstuction minors (which he leads the team with) or to give up an odd-man rush (which seems to occur with regularity when he is on the ice).



Again, another player who has no part of the future and whose role can be replicated by someone already here.



Is this or isn't this a rebuilding team?


I love to read your comments about our future 1st and 2nd line players. For years we had to endure your posts about how the Rangers have none (proven wrong thank you petr prucha) now when anybody brings up dawes immonen or any of the vast amount of top two line guys you come back with they need to prove it in the NHL. Yet you have no problem calling kids future 3rd or 4th line players (like there is something wrong with being a role player) Are you saying bottom line guys are easier to project than top line guys? Are you some sort of scout or did you read something your idol larry brooks wrote along the way.

You trash Rozsvial yet you want to know if the team is rebuilding? Go look up Rozsivals age and than come back to reality.

Neimo has been a spark plug for the past month.

Why not go tell us how the Rangers should trade Jagr again.


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 01-28-2006 at 05:00 PM.
Son of Steinbrenner is offline  
Old
01-28-2006, 06:13 PM
  #86
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,071
vCash: 500
Originally posted by True Blue:

"Is this or isn't this a rebuilding team?"

Most definitely.

But you can't ignore the reality we find ourselves in. We are where we are. I'll simply maintain that trading away these players now could be a mistake. Building a winning tradition in the midst of a rebuild is not a bad thing....it's an amazing opportunity. I know you think we can get rid of these guys and keep winning, I just don't agree with you. I do agree with you that we have to move up on draft day, but we may already be in a position to do that. The organization has solid depth and perhaps will take advantage of that come draft day. I'll concede you make a good point on Rucchin, just not enough to make me want to send him away for 3rd and 4th round picks.

Pizza is offline  
Old
01-28-2006, 06:49 PM
  #87
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
That's about right, SoS...

there are players you look at and say, fourth line potential. Grinders. Guys with not a lot of skill. Not overwhelming numbers. Nothing wrong with that, as with guys like Betts, Moore, Ortmeyer and Ward, we've been shown how useful and needed these guys are. Then there's the top six or bust guys. Guys like Dawes and Immonen are question marks. They're doing well, if not very good in the AHL. There is question as to whether they can port that to the NHL. The organization likely questions it also, otherwise we would've seen the 23 year old Immonen already, most likely, and perhaps even Dawes, before trading for a player when the second line offense dried up. They're content with them continuing to develo, but aren't likely comfortable saying this is going to happen next year or the year after. They ain't sure fire. We're just hopeful.

Fletch is offline  
Old
01-29-2006, 01:30 AM
  #88
mschmidt64
Registered User
 
mschmidt64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dank
I don't think its that big of a deal..

Its not a huge deal, but it definitely makes a post where you are debating different points much easier to read.

And it looks more aesthetically pleasing.

mschmidt64 is offline  
Old
01-29-2006, 09:49 PM
  #89
donpaulo
Capt Barry Beck
 
donpaulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: nihon
Country: Japan
Posts: 1,612
vCash: 500
poti/pock

I think that to a certain degree these two players contribute to the team in similar ways, and their style of play is roughly approximate. (discounting experience)

However Poti is unrestricted, Pock is not.

I think its been proven over time that the rangers do well with TWO puck moving dmen (the cup winners had leetch and zubov)

So perhaps there is room for both of them next season (assuming slats resigns poti)

I, for one, was hoping Tyutin would put up more numbers, but he is basically still a rookie. If Tyutin develops the way I think most of us hope he will, this makes Poti expendable. Hopefully he is dealt for a piece that can be used in the future, or he is resigned and then dealt

donpaulo is offline  
Old
01-29-2006, 09:51 PM
  #90
NYRfan1299*
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country:
Posts: 15
vCash: 500
Poti doesnt deserve to be resigned by his team he is underachieving for this team and we have a great crop of defensive rookies including Tytutin and Pock so I thinkn money would be better spent buying young talent and developing pock and moving up other great prospect defenders like stall, rather then resgining an overpayed underachieving seconld line defenseman.

NYRfan1299* is offline  
Old
01-30-2006, 08:56 AM
  #91
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,116
vCash: 500
The bottom line with Poti is that he is an offensive defenseman. His defensive game has improved, but not to the point that he can make a living off of it. His worth comes from how he performs offensively (i.e. how many points he can rack up). As such, he should not be resigned. If he is not going to put up points offensively, then the Rangers are better off having someone who can play defense more than he can.

True Blue is offline  
Old
01-30-2006, 04:53 PM
  #92
NYRfan1299*
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country:
Posts: 15
vCash: 500
AGREE!!, well said

NYRfan1299* is offline  
Old
01-30-2006, 05:10 PM
  #93
klingsor
HFBoards Sponsor
 
klingsor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 14,113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
The bottom line with Poti is that he is an offensive defenseman. His defensive game has improved, but not to the point that he can make a living off of it. His worth comes from how he performs offensively (i.e. how many points he can rack up). As such, he should not be resigned. If he is not going to put up points offensively, then the Rangers are better off having someone who can play defense more than he can.
I wonder how much time he gets on the ice with Jagr and Co.?

klingsor is offline  
Old
01-30-2006, 05:16 PM
  #94
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,116
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
I wonder how much time he gets on the ice with Jagr and Co.?
Malik & Rozsival get the lion's share of the time w/ Jagr. Still, an offensive defenseman should have something more than 2 more assists than either Jason Ward or Neimo, no?

True Blue is offline  
Old
01-30-2006, 05:23 PM
  #95
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Malik & Rozsival get the lion's share of the time w/ Jagr.
I think klingsor was being facetious.

It would be really interesting to see what would happen if you swapped Poti for Rozsival. I'm not even much of a believer in Tom's offensive game, but I have a feeling he'd be piling up points at a dramatic rate.

Melrose_Jr. is offline  
Old
01-30-2006, 05:23 PM
  #96
klingsor
HFBoards Sponsor
 
klingsor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 14,113
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Malik & Rozsival get the lion's share of the time w/ Jagr. Still, an offensive defenseman should have something more than 2 more assists than either Jason Ward or Neimo, no?
No argument.

With certain players though, success breeds success.

They certainly tried hard enough to pump up Hossa earlier in the year.

klingsor is offline  
Old
01-31-2006, 09:52 PM
  #97
vipernsx
Flatus Expeller
 
vipernsx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 6,525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya
I think that with Betts returning a few weeks before the deadline, a forward will be moved. Most likey would be Rucchin. Although I'd love to have him for the playoffs, he is an UFA and I think Betts can step into his role and at least match the defensive game. Poti is another UFA that I can't see resigning, so it would make sense to move him for at least a late pick. Rucinsky hasn't really been earning his keep and I'd prefer to move him over Rucchin, but it may draw a bad reaction from the Czech nation on the team.

I guess you are wondering what to bring in though. I'd say no one. The free agent market will have enough of what we need long term without losing any of our prospects or current players. We won't land Redden for Poti and Rucinsky, so I say hold on till the summer. Dumping the salary of unwanted vets or getting a little something for pending UFAs would be my priority.

Very well said....I 100% agree with everything!!!

vipernsx is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.