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Mark Scheifele Discussion Part III

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Old
01-21-2017, 02:28 PM
  #101
irunthepeg
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
What are you talking about? It's one of his stronger traits, and has been since his OHL days. This comment is so far off the mark, it's not even funny.
What you did there... I SEE IT.

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That's it you are all banned from buying any merchandise of any kind :p
I'll start buying jerseys from players in the Central that aren't on the Jets

On the topic of Scheif's potential... honestly, I think he still has room to improve and more to become... in a good way. His work ethic is his best trait and I feel like as long as he keeps that same commitment, the sky is the limit. Never have I been so happy to not be the guy in charge of drafting cause after #7 in 2011 didn't net us Sean Couturier, I thought we were ****ed.

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01-21-2017, 02:29 PM
  #102
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What you did there... I SEE IT.
I thought about it when I wrote that, and said **** it and left it anyway.

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01-21-2017, 02:50 PM
  #103
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I feel like the demise of Mark Scheifele is greatly exaggerated around these parts

I haven't looked at the numbers but I get the feeling that he probably leads the team in scoring since his return from injury

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01-21-2017, 03:01 PM
  #104
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He's on pace for like 70 points.

Stafford really dragging that line down

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01-21-2017, 03:52 PM
  #105
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He's on pace for like 70 points.

Stafford really dragging that line down
78 actually. Since he missed 3 games 75.

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01-21-2017, 08:10 PM
  #106
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Mark Scheifele against all centers








Mark Scheifele against everybody




Mark Scheifele , 1 calendar year





MARK SCHEIFELE is AWESOME

Can i say for the past 1 year only
ONLY Crosby, McDavid and Malkin has been better than him ?

TOP 5 C


Last edited by Jetsfareast: 01-21-2017 at 08:22 PM.
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01-21-2017, 08:21 PM
  #107
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gonna be the MVP when we win our first cup

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01-22-2017, 11:13 AM
  #108
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Just curious. Scheifele is great at centre. He's probably number one if it wasn't for Little's better face off %. I wonder how he would handle being a winger.
I think Copp and Petan (Roslovic in the future) are more effective at centre than playing wing on a Schefiele line. Im not saying they're better centres than Schiefele.
Just a thought.

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01-22-2017, 11:15 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by jets2020champs View Post
Just curious. Scheifele is great at centre. He's probably number one if it wasn't for Little's better face off %. I wonder how he would handle being a winger.
I think Copp and Petan (Roslovic in the future) are more effective at centre than playing wing on a Schefiele line. Im not saying they're better centres than Schiefele.
Just a thought.
FO's are only a part of a centre's responsibilities - the defensive responsibilities and puck support are a much bigger and more important part of their game. If you move him to wing, you lose what Scheifele brings in those areas. I would not ever do this - he'll work through his deficiencies as he goes.

Centres do tend to get better at FO's as they progress through their career. Interesting fact: Scheif was voted as one of the best C's in the FO dot in the OHL. Shows you how difficult this skill is to excel at in the NHL.

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01-22-2017, 11:19 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by jets2020champs View Post
Just curious. Scheifele is great at centre. He's probably number one if it wasn't for Little's better face off %. I wonder how he would handle being a winger.
I think Copp and Petan (Roslovic in the future) are more effective at centre than playing wing on a Schefiele line. Im not saying they're better centres than Schiefele.
Just a thought.
To be able to compete with the top teams you need a true #1C that can match up well. Copp is no where close offensively to Scheif and Petan would be in tough having to provide the down low support required by the center.

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01-22-2017, 01:09 PM
  #111
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Shiefs does have a tremendously well developed two-way 200 foot game and is well on the way to being our #1 center, if not there already. His box score numbers for the past year have been awesome and close to top of league.

Having said that, there is an argument to be made that his performance took a leap forward when he began centering Ehlers, with some indication that further improvement showed itself at times early this season when Liane assumed his other wing . IMO this occurred because Ehlers was the defacto line driver, using his speed to create space not only for himself but for the entire line in the OZ. Schiefs is simply not the style of center that leads his line into the OZ;holds possession of the puck; and creates plays for his wingers (like a Petan or hopefully Rozlovic will do). He is much more a "shooter", scoring off the rush, or, off the forecheck and cycle game. And of course Scheifs is capable of excelling at the defensive responsibilities of a center in the NZ and DZ.

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01-22-2017, 01:34 PM
  #112
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Shiefs does have a tremendously well developed two-way 200 foot game and is well on the way to being our #1 center, if not there already. His box score numbers for the past year have been awesome and close to top of league.

Having said that, there is an argument to be made that his performance took a leap forward when he began centering Ehlers, with some indication that further improvement showed itself at times early this season when Liane assumed his other wing . IMO this occurred because Ehlers was the defacto line driver, using his speed to create space not only for himself but for the entire line in the OZ. Schiefs is simply not the style of center that leads his line into the OZ;holds possession of the puck; and creates plays for his wingers (like a Petan or hopefully Rozlovic will do). He is much more a "shooter", scoring off the rush, or, off the forecheck and cycle game. And of course Scheifs is capable of excelling at the defensive responsibilities of a center in the NZ and DZ.
I attribute that more so to the system then Scheifele's ability. He did an awful lot of carrying the puck into the offensive zone in his first couple of years to great success. IMO he was Jets best NZ player then, but as Maurice kept pushing a more defensive system Scheifele kept getting pushed deeper in his zone and is often the third guy joining the rush. His game resembles Little's quite a bit now where he generally quietly goes about his business. That's likely the way Maurice wants him to play.

I think if we changed our Dzone system wed see Scheifele lead more rushes and be more dangerous through the NZ.

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01-22-2017, 03:08 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by jets2020champs View Post
Just curious. Scheifele is great at centre. He's probably number one if it wasn't for Little's better face off %. I wonder how he would handle being a winger.
I think Copp and Petan (Roslovic in the future) are more effective at centre than playing wing on a Schefiele line. Im not saying they're better centres than Schiefele.
Just a thought.
Copp has no where the skill set to be a #1 C.
Having Petan center instead of a quality power forward make no sense at all.
There is also the fact that neither Petan nor Copp should be anywhere near the first line.

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01-22-2017, 03:42 PM
  #114
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I don't know how anyone could watch Scheifele play and think to themselves "he'd be more effective as a winger"

His game screams center through and through.

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01-22-2017, 05:36 PM
  #115
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Mark Scheifele is ELITE

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Old
01-23-2017, 03:41 AM
  #116
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Ok guys I am starting to get seriously concerned about him. His numbers other than scoring are worse this season than his rookie year. I didn't realize the extent of the problem and it seems to be getting worse over the season:

Generated from Puckalytics.com data

Hit shot metrics across the board have dropped big time and are worse than his rookie year. His CorsiRelTM for the season is almost as bad as Chris Thorburn's. I don't think it is usage or quality of competition related as Ehlers who has mostly played with him looks just fine in the RelTM numbers



His scoring numbers are still good but are possibly % driven. Scoring numbers are probably the reason behind the lack of alarm about Scheifele


I am baffled because he looked great in World Championships, him and Mark Stone were Team Canada's best corsi players. He also looked great in the World Cup and IIRC was amongst Team NA's best Corsi players.

Something happened around the NHL season. I don't know if it was the injury that caused him to miss games as I clearly recall Maurice saying that "Once this is dealt with it's not something we're going to have to worry about". Perhaps it's an unrelated and undisclosed injury? Whatever it is, I really hope it's short term

Whatever it is the Jets need to be proactive in dealing with it. It looks pretty serious if you look at the drop in his numbers. The Jets should seriously consider shutting him down and getting him the care he needs (surgery, rehab, rest whatever), these games are not worth his longterm health and not worth playing injured if it is an injury. I really don't want him to play injured in a season like this


Last edited by JetsFan815: 01-23-2017 at 03:48 AM. Reason: typo
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01-23-2017, 05:08 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by JetsFan815 View Post
Ok guys I am starting to get seriously concerned about him. His numbers other than scoring are worse this season than his rookie year. I didn't realize the extent of the problem and it seems to be getting worse over the season:

Generated from Puckalytics.com data

Hit shot metrics across the board have dropped big time and are worse than his rookie year. His CorsiRelTM for the season is almost as bad as Chris Thorburn's. I don't think it is usage or quality of competition related as Ehlers who has mostly played with him looks just fine in the RelTM numbers



His scoring numbers are still good but are possibly % driven. Scoring numbers are probably the reason behind the lack of alarm about Scheifele


I am baffled because he looked great in World Championships, him and Mark Stone were Team Canada's best corsi players. He also looked great in the World Cup and IIRC was amongst Team NA's best Corsi players.

Something happened around the NHL season. I don't know if it was the injury that caused him to miss games as I clearly recall Maurice saying that "Once this is dealt with it's not something we're going to have to worry about". Perhaps it's an unrelated and undisclosed injury? Whatever it is, I really hope it's short term

Whatever it is the Jets need to be proactive in dealing with it. It looks pretty serious if you look at the drop in his numbers. The Jets should seriously consider shutting him down and getting him the care he needs (surgery, rehab, rest whatever), these games are not worth his longterm health and not worth playing injured if it is an injury. I really don't want him to play injured in a season like this

[mod] Mark will be money for this org for a long time.


Last edited by YWGinYYZ: 01-23-2017 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Don't do that.
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Old
01-23-2017, 06:43 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by JetsFan815 View Post
Ok guys I am starting to get seriously concerned about him. His numbers other than scoring are worse this season than his rookie year. I didn't realize the extent of the problem and it seems to be getting worse over the season:

Generated from Puckalytics.com data

Hit shot metrics across the board have dropped big time and are worse than his rookie year. His CorsiRelTM for the season is almost as bad as Chris Thorburn's. I don't think it is usage or quality of competition related as Ehlers who has mostly played with him looks just fine in the RelTM numbers



His scoring numbers are still good but are possibly % driven. Scoring numbers are probably the reason behind the lack of alarm about Scheifele


I am baffled because he looked great in World Championships, him and Mark Stone were Team Canada's best corsi players. He also looked great in the World Cup and IIRC was amongst Team NA's best Corsi players.

Something happened around the NHL season. I don't know if it was the injury that caused him to miss games as I clearly recall Maurice saying that "Once this is dealt with it's not something we're going to have to worry about". Perhaps it's an unrelated and undisclosed injury? Whatever it is, I really hope it's short term

Whatever it is the Jets need to be proactive in dealing with it. It looks pretty serious if you look at the drop in his numbers. The Jets should seriously consider shutting him down and getting him the care he needs (surgery, rehab, rest whatever), these games are not worth his longterm health and not worth playing injured if it is an injury. I really don't want him to play injured in a season like this
His CorsiRelTM for the season is almost as bad as Chris Thorburn's. But you forgot to mention that Thorburn's are better than Laine's. And guess whose SF% RelTM is worse than Scheifele's, Laine's as well. Guess which 2 players are also riding incredibly high shot%. That's right Scheifele and Laine. 4th and 11th in the league controlled for 40 games played. Maybe we can start looking for other explanations rather than wanting to shut down the guy who is 8th in league scoring.

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01-23-2017, 07:13 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsFan815 View Post
Ok guys I am starting to get seriously concerned about him. His numbers other than scoring are worse this season than his rookie year. I didn't realize the extent of the problem and it seems to be getting worse over the season:

Generated from Puckalytics.com data

Hit shot metrics across the board have dropped big time and are worse than his rookie year. His CorsiRelTM for the season is almost as bad as Chris Thorburn's. I don't think it is usage or quality of competition related as Ehlers who has mostly played with him looks just fine in the RelTM numbers



His scoring numbers are still good but are possibly % driven. Scoring numbers are probably the reason behind the lack of alarm about Scheifele


I am baffled because he looked great in World Championships, him and Mark Stone were Team Canada's best corsi players. He also looked great in the World Cup and IIRC was amongst Team NA's best Corsi players.

Something happened around the NHL season. I don't know if it was the injury that caused him to miss games as I clearly recall Maurice saying that "Once this is dealt with it's not something we're going to have to worry about". Perhaps it's an unrelated and undisclosed injury? Whatever it is, I really hope it's short term

Whatever it is the Jets need to be proactive in dealing with it. It looks pretty serious if you look at the drop in his numbers. The Jets should seriously consider shutting him down and getting him the care he needs (surgery, rehab, rest whatever), these games are not worth his longterm health and not worth playing injured if it is an injury. I really don't want him to play injured in a season like this
He's been carrying around an 18 year old rookie who unsurprisingly has not been a very good possesuon player or a possesion black hole in Drew Stafford. His possesion numbers without either of the two are solid this year. I think it's simply that he's had to carry the load for his line all year with some poor shot metrics players. Teams are also game planning for him. I'm not at all concerned.

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01-23-2017, 07:16 AM
  #120
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He's been carrying around an 18 year old rookie who unsurprisingly has not been a very good possesuon player or a possesion black hole in Drew Stafford. His possesion numbers without either of the two are solid this year. I think it's simply that he's had to carry the load for his line all year with some poor shot metrics players. Teams are also game planning for him. I'm not at all concerned.
Actually scheifeles possession numbers are better when he plays with stafford

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01-23-2017, 07:21 AM
  #121
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Actually scheifeles possession numbers are better when he plays with stafford
According to Puckalytics, his CF% is 49.3% without Stafford, and 42.4% with him. Are you seeing something different on another site?

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01-23-2017, 07:45 AM
  #122
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I think Scheifele and Laine, should hold on to the puck in the ozone a little more, than just getting it and scoring right away pass it around a little more, left and right

I forgot which line it was who had one of the best possession stats but scoring wise they are bottom of the pack when it comes to the scoring leaders as a unit.

Scheifele's line leads the scoring but had the worst Corsi

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01-23-2017, 07:50 AM
  #123
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Looking at hockey reference Mark still spots a fairly solid CF% of 50.3 and a rel CF% of 0.8 which is good enough for 6th best among forwards on the Jets. Can anyone explain why there are such big discrepancies between the two sites?

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01-23-2017, 08:04 AM
  #124
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His CorsiRelTM for the season is almost as bad as Chris Thorburn's. But you forgot to mention that Thorburn's are better than Laine's. And guess whose SF% RelTM is worse than Scheifele's, Laine's as well. Guess which 2 players are also riding incredibly high shot%. That's right Scheifele and Laine. 4th and 11th in the league controlled for 40 games played. Maybe we can start looking for other explanations rather than wanting to shut down the guy who is 8th in league scoring.

Like the guy who's head of the Jets system and how they play?

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01-23-2017, 08:09 AM
  #125
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He's been carrying around an 18 year old rookie who unsurprisingly has not been a very good possesuon player or a possesion black hole in Drew Stafford. His possesion numbers without either of the two are solid this year. I think it's simply that he's had to carry the load for his line all year with some poor shot metrics players. Teams are also game planning for him. I'm not at all concerned.
This! ^^^^^^^^

O a more minor note would also speculate that he has a nagging injury that may be slowing him down but nothing to be concerned about.

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