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Taffe traded for Sonnenberg...

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01-26-2006, 02:08 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarretJoseph
Lundmark was made an example of. He was being "lazy" & Sather wanted to make an example out of somebody and he was the odd man out at the time.
He wasn't being made an example of, he simply played himself out of a job with his lack of effort and passion. He sulked constantly and whined about being benched for his crappy play, so I really don't see what other options there were but to move him. Whether you think he's going to break out or not, it was almost certainly not going to happen here, so you roll the dice on somebody elses project.

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01-26-2006, 02:10 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
He wasn't being made an example of, he simply played himself out of a job with his lack of effort and passion. He sulked constantly and whined about being benched for his crappy play, so I really don't see what other options there were but to move him. Whether you think he's going to break out or not, it was almost certainly not going to happen here, so you roll the dice on somebody elses project.

Sonnenberg just turned 28, heck maybe he can turn the corner like Ward did. But in all seriousness, Id rather get something than a 28 yearold minor leaguer.

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01-26-2006, 02:14 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
Sonnenberg just turned 28, heck maybe he can turn the corner like Ward did. But in all seriousness, Id rather get something than a 28 yearold minor leaguer.
maybe sather will package sonnenberg, rachunek's rights, poti and hossa somewhere for whatever player is on your mind at this exact moment

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01-26-2006, 02:15 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
Sonnenberg just turned 28, heck maybe he can turn the corner like Ward did. But in all seriousness, Id rather get something than a 28 yearold minor leaguer.
Well, i was thinking more in terms of Taffe as the project. That's the chip that brought us Sonnenberg, so obviously, his value has fallen signifigantly since he arrived here.

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01-26-2006, 02:16 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Well, i was thinking more in terms of Taffe as the project. That's the chip that brought us Sonnenberg, so obviously, his value has fallen signifigantly since he arrived here.

But I thought other teams would be intrested in Lundmark. If the Yotes best offer was Taffe, Id rather not trade Lundmark, and would have waited around the deadline.

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01-26-2006, 02:17 PM
  #56
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Jamie Lundmark is breaking out into a good player in Phoenix! He played really well for the yotes so far, and made Nedved expendable. His work ehtic and effort has been a joy to watch. He has slowed recently, but he has been playing with a sore groin. As for Taffe for Sonnenberg, it was a steal for the yotes. Taffe has always played decent , but has sometimes lacks intensity at the NHL level. He is highly skilled and if he can learn how to raise his level of play, he will be back in the NHL. Also Taffe had 18 points in 22 games for the wolf pack of the AHL, he didn't play that bad.

 
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01-26-2006, 02:23 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBreed19
Taffe has always played decent , but has sometimes lacks intensity at the NHL level. He is highly skilled and if he can learn how to raise his level of play, he will be back in the NHL.
The same was said about Lundmark back in October though. That's what I'm saying JOrt. When the deal was made, it looked pretty even. You could have only gotten more for Lundmark if he played as well here as he has for Gretz, which IMO, was unlikely.

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01-26-2006, 04:11 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBreed19
Jamie Lundmark is breaking out into a good player in Phoenix! He played really well for the yotes so far, and made Nedved expendable. His work ehtic and effort has been a joy to watch. He has slowed recently, but he has been playing with a sore groin. As for Taffe for Sonnenberg, it was a steal for the yotes. Taffe has always played decent , but has sometimes lacks intensity at the NHL level. He is highly skilled and if he can learn how to raise his level of play, he will be back in the NHL. Also Taffe had 18 points in 22 games for the wolf pack of the AHL, he didn't play that bad.

Lundmark is breaking out...

God, I needed to hear that like I needed a kick in the balls..

stupid sather!!

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01-26-2006, 05:38 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarretJoseph
Lundmark is breaking out...

God, I needed to hear that like I needed a kick in the balls..

stupid sather!!
Lundmark is not breaking out, right now he's looking like a 10-15 goal, 25-30 point player.

If anything he's playing at the level he did a few years ago for the Rangers, which was good for a 21 year old but not necessarily a "kid" who is now 25 years old. This wasn't the trading of a 22 year old here.

He had one really good stretch in Phoenix but for the monst of January has 1 goal and 1 assist, and its not all due to a bad groin.

People need to stop acting like the kid has had a Prucha like streak since he was traded. He's playing on a .500 team that's last in its division. He hasn't turned the corner, he's just more productive than he was here in two years. But he really couldn't do much worse and stay at the NHL level.

So even if he becomes a 15 goal, 30 point player would you take him over Immonen at this point? Prucha? Moore? Hollweg?Even Ward?

Let's be fair about this one.

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01-26-2006, 06:27 PM
  #60
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I thought Nedved's salary...

and the duration of said salary, coupled with injuries and a lack of production made him expendable. I don't watch a lotta 'Yotes games, but it's mostly the same 'ol Jamie. A decent amount of talent and a kid who can play when he wants too, but he just doesn't do it enough. I agree with Edge's assessment of Lundmark. I'd rather have Moore and Betts at center (and even Rucchin and Nylander as placeholders), as well as the wingers on this team than him.

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01-26-2006, 06:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
and the duration of said salary, coupled with injuries and a lack of production made him expendable. I don't watch a lotta 'Yotes games, but it's mostly the same 'ol Jamie. A decent amount of talent and a kid who can play when he wants too, but he just doesn't do it enough. I agree with Edge's assessment of Lundmark. I'd rather have Moore and Betts at center (and even Rucchin and Nylander as placeholders), as well as the wingers on this team than him.
I'am a coyotes fan and he is changing his Title from bust to first or second line center. I watch all the games on center ice and he is doing well. I don't understand why you guys can't admitt it? He is a good player , who all of us yote fans are happy to have.

 
Old
01-26-2006, 06:54 PM
  #62
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Jamie works hard, is good on faceoffs and has a good shot from the point for the powerplay. He loves playing for Gretz.

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01-26-2006, 08:07 PM
  #63
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Admit what?

first, he hasn't been gone. Second, there's nobody wishing him ill will here. Third, there are people who do not defend every Ranger move. I don't watch every game, but I watch games in a manner that Jamie plays his game - sporadically. I liked the kid a lot in New York and hoped he'd do well. I wish him well in Phoenix and hope he someday realizes his potential, and recognized that perhaps a change of scenery would be nice. I just haven't seen 'first or second' line in the those games in which I've seen him. It's not about admitting squat. I think he has the tools, and many of in here have always said it's just up to Jamie.

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01-26-2006, 08:10 PM
  #64
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And...

two points in his last 10 doesn't jump out at me as top line talent, typically - ditto 14 points in 32 games. And he's 25 and has been in the league for some time, so it's not like he's some 19 year old.

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01-26-2006, 10:42 PM
  #65
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Right now I see the same thing in Phoenix I did in NY. And living in Vegas, I get to see a lot of the Yotes.

I see a kid who has obvious talent but when you break it down, where ar ethe points? Sorry but his production in Phoenix does not point to top six talent to me. I still see flashes of the talent that made him a top 10 pick and a kid who almost everyone thought was a future first line center. But I also a kid whose numbers just don't equal his talent. 15 goals and 30 points just isn't top six production on a team that wants to go somewhere.

My problem with Jamie is you watch him and you can see the talent, so you start to believe "This is it, this is when he puts it together". Then 10 games later you turn around and for all that work, he's got a goal and an assist.

He's now 25 years old, playing for a team that's last in its division, getting 14 minutes a night and playing for a childhood hero. That's an ideal situation, but frankly I'm not wowed.

If anyone wants to go back and read the archives or check my record they'll see I was as big of an advocate for Jamie as they come. Heck I was campaigning for him before he was even drafted. But at some point you gotta call a spade a spade.

I wish him well, but I don't exactly see the turning it around some people keep trying to convince me of. I see a lot of the same things I saw in Hartford and during the 02-03 season. In many ways, I see almost the exact same player, just a little more motivated and 3 years older.

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01-27-2006, 07:41 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Right now I see the same thing in Phoenix I did in NY. And living in Vegas, I get to see a lot of the Yotes.

I see a kid who has obvious talent but when you break it down, where ar ethe points? Sorry but his production in Phoenix does not point to top six talent to me. I still see flashes of the talent that made him a top 10 pick and a kid who almost everyone thought was a future first line center. But I also a kid whose numbers just don't equal his talent. 15 goals and 30 points just isn't top six production on a team that wants to go somewhere.

My problem with Jamie is you watch him and you can see the talent, so you start to believe "This is it, this is when he puts it together". Then 10 games later you turn around and for all that work, he's got a goal and an assist.

He's now 25 years old, playing for a team that's last in its division, getting 14 minutes a night and playing for a childhood hero. That's an ideal situation, but frankly I'm not wowed.

If anyone wants to go back and read the archives or check my record they'll see I was as big of an advocate for Jamie as they come. Heck I was campaigning for him before he was even drafted. But at some point you gotta call a spade a spade.

I wish him well, but I don't exactly see the turning it around some people keep trying to convince me of. I see a lot of the same things I saw in Hartford and during the 02-03 season. In many ways, I see almost the exact same player, just a little more motivated and 3 years older.
Yeah, 4 goals in 30 games (1 with us in 3 gms) isn't exactly what I'd call turning the corner. Lundmark, in my eyes has always been deceptive, always made it seem like he was doing more than he actually was.

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01-27-2006, 01:12 PM
  #67
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Now that Jani Rita is in Pittsburgh, it makes me think of the trade I always thought Sather would make: Lundmark for Rita (one of his own draft picks). It would have been another case of one problem player for another, but I thought it made sense.

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01-27-2006, 01:55 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007
Now that Jani Rita is in Pittsburgh, it makes me think of the trade I always thought Sather would make: Lundmark for Rita (one of his own draft picks). It would have been another case of one problem player for another, but I thought it made sense.
It made sense, probably why it didnt happen

Edmontion was looking for a D-men anyway, who were we gonna deal them? Poti?

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01-27-2006, 02:41 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
Yeah, 4 goals in 30 games (1 with us in 3 gms) isn't exactly what I'd call turning the corner. Lundmark, in my eyes has always been deceptive, always made it seem like he was doing more than he actually was.
That's what I mean 4 goals in 30 games. I mean I can understand 10 in 30 games or even .5 points per game, but I just dont see it.

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01-27-2006, 02:48 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
That's what I mean 4 goals in 30 games. I mean I can understand 10 in 30 games or even .5 points per game, but I just dont see it.
Then what do you call 14 points in 30 games as a Coyote? Say what you will about Lundmark, but he's earned his ice in Phoenix, which is much more than we can say for any of our projects.

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01-27-2006, 03:19 PM
  #71
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14 points in 30 games...

with PP time really isn't what I'd call second line material. Edge said 30 point player, the 14 points in 30 games extrapolates to 38. The kid also has 2 points in the last 10. Not great numbers. As for the Rangers projects...Hossa sucks and he has 13 points in 38 games, and more goals than Lundmark and little PP time. Don't know any other players I'd classify as projects, and really do not know where I'd slot Lundmark into the Rangers' lineup, given the roles of each player and line. He's top six on PHX, but I wouldn't replace any top six with him. He's not much of a checker, so he's not there. PHX is a good fit for him; I wish him well.

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01-27-2006, 04:19 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
with PP time really isn't what I'd call second line material. Edge said 30 point player, the 14 points in 30 games extrapolates to 38. The kid also has 2 points in the last 10. Not great numbers. As for the Rangers projects...Hossa sucks and he has 13 points in 38 games, and more goals than Lundmark and little PP time. Don't know any other players I'd classify as projects, and really do not know where I'd slot Lundmark into the Rangers' lineup, given the roles of each player and line. He's top six on PHX, but I wouldn't replace any top six with him. He's not much of a checker, so he's not there. PHX is a good fit for him; I wish him well.
I'm not saying the Lundmark is a great player or even that I'd want him back. I'm just tired of every player we trade away getting constantly slammed because we don't want to admit that we got the worse end of the stick. I have been keeping an eye on Lundmark, and before this latest mini-slump (2 pts in 10 games before being scratched to rest a groin injury), he was scoring at a fairly consistent 45 point pace, which isn't that great, but it's a start.

But really my post was more because Edge said that he should have 10 goals or .5 pts/gm when he has the latter, or close enough.

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01-27-2006, 04:33 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
I'm not saying the Lundmark is a great player or even that I'd want him back. I'm just tired of every player we trade away getting constantly slammed because we don't want to admit that we got the worse end of the stick. I have been keeping an eye on Lundmark, and before this latest mini-slump (2 pts in 10 games before being scratched to rest a groin injury), he was scoring at a fairly consistent 45 point pace, which isn't that great, but it's a start.

But really my post was more because Edge said that he should have 10 goals or .5 pts/gm when he has the latter, or close enough.
And who exactly is blocking him? Hossa is doing the same thing but I'm not gonna declare a breakout or him turning the corner.

Of his 14 points, 6 came in a 5 game stretch in late november through 12/03/05

Since that time:

23 Games played: 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points, and an even +/- (and the plus minus and the 8 points owe something to Yesterdays game mind you).

So after that stretch Jamie is avg. a little under .35 ppg. Over an 82 game schedule that's a shade under 30 points. Better than he was doing? Sure. Second line player and "breaking out" far from it?

And this production is the result of increased icetime, not for anything I'd still expect a little more.

It has nothing to do with the trade, as I haven't complained about the trade. But when we talk about someone breaking out or turning the corner, this is far from that.

His production is comparable to Hossa's and I wouldn't exactly use the words breakout or turning the corner there either.

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01-27-2006, 05:07 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
I'm not saying the Lundmark is a great player or even that I'd want him back. I'm just tired of every player we trade away getting constantly slammed because we don't want to admit that we got the worse end of the stick.
Same here.

Your old username (Malhotra), too.

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01-27-2006, 05:25 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by klingsor
Same here.

Your old username (Malhotra), too.
Difference between Malhotra is that he actually became what the expectations should have been - a third line checking center.

Lundmark even now does not look like a top 6 forward on a good team. On a non-contending team, sure maybe he can pass off as one but he's getting 14 minutes on a last place team and the results aren't great. Are they better sure, but no one has managed to explained to me where the breakout exactly is.

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