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Gameday Thread: Boston @ Colorado 21/10

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Old
10-21-2003, 07:34 PM
  #51
The Frugal Gourmet
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I said it at the beginning of the year: There is no coaching job tougher than managing a bunch of NHL superstars.

If they succeed, it's them. If they don't, it's the coach.

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10-21-2003, 07:55 PM
  #52
Freudian
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Brutal game. This constant juggling of the lower lines seems not to work out very well and it is almost like Granato punishes players for playing good. Battaglia and McCormick doing well? Scratch one and play one with two slow enforcers. There is plenty of work to be done for Colorado.

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Old
10-21-2003, 09:19 PM
  #53
Habsolution
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frugal Gourmet
I said it at the beginning of the year: There is no coaching job tougher than managing a bunch of NHL superstars.

If they succeed, it's them. If they don't, it's the coach.
That's exactly why you need a proven coach. Coaching has become SO important in today's NHL. I don't think Granoto can cut it. Anyone else think the wild wouldn't have won if a guy like Crawford or Hartley was at the helm last playoffs ?

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10-22-2003, 07:50 AM
  #54
Enoch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolution
That's exactly why you need a proven coach. Coaching has become SO important in today's NHL. I don't think Granoto can cut it. Anyone else think the wild wouldn't have won if a guy like Crawford or Hartley was at the helm last playoffs ?
I agree, but I think Hartley did need to go......the replacement is very questionable tho ;/

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Old
10-22-2003, 07:57 AM
  #55
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I agree that Hartley wasn't the problem with the Avs. I mean the guy HAD won it all. I also don't think it is panic time yet in colo. Geez, it is one game. You have two major new talents who are still trying to find there places and a goalie who has a ton of pressure on him. I would give it a couple of weeks before I even started questioning things. The Avs will be fine. As long as Abe can step up to the table.

You also have to give kudos to the B's. They came in and dealt with the Kings (a team that is playing awsome hockey to start the season) and the Avs as well as having beaten some other teams that they should have beaten. The B's WON that game because they played better. It doesn't mean that TG can't coach or that Abe isn't a good goalie. Let it go, you still have the most talented front lines in the history of the game. (i know, but they are right up there)

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10-22-2003, 08:08 AM
  #56
Ensane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGM
I agree that Hartley wasn't the problem with the Avs. I mean the guy HAD won it all. I also don't think it is panic time yet in colo. Geez, it is one game. You have two major new talents who are still trying to find there places and a goalie who has a ton of pressure on him. I would give it a couple of weeks before I even started questioning things. The Avs will be fine. As long as Abe can step up to the table.

You also have to give kudos to the B's. They came in and dealt with the Kings (a team that is playing awsome hockey to start the season) and the Avs as well as having beaten some other teams that they should have beaten. The B's WON that game because they played better. It doesn't mean that TG can't coach or that Abe isn't a good goalie. Let it go, you still have the most talented front lines in the history of the game. (i know, but they are right up there)
Actually, Hartley was a problem. The year "he" won it all, he had a star studded lineup, and virtually let Ray Bourque motivate the team. Outside of that, everything he did was a disappointment and/or failure. He's excelling in Atlanta because he's got more room to improve, and improving teams is his MO (look back at what he did with Hershey). Other than that, I doubt he'll ever again be able to get an NHL team over the hump; from contender to champion.

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Old
10-22-2003, 08:40 AM
  #57
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Sounds like Detroit with Hitler, er, I mean Lewis. The team doesn't seem to skating hard and even with the supposed great defense, they give up a lot of odd-man rushes, Hasek has been playing good considering all the break downs and sloppy passing.

Sounds like Lewis and Granato are both players coaches, they try and let the inmates run the asylum, and remember how quickly Robinson wore out his welcome in NJ.

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Old
10-22-2003, 09:32 AM
  #58
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Well, that is your opinion. Not a fact. In my opinion Hartley was a smart enough coach to know that he had enough great and talented veteran players to listen to them and NOT over coach them. It was still his suytem that the team followed and still his decision making on who plays where and when that helped them win it all. He did what I think any smart coach would do in his situation. He let the hall of famers do what they do and that is lead their team on the ice while worked out the rest of the stuff off of the ice.

If we follow your logic about him then there would be no chance of his improving where he is because he isn't a good enough coach to be capable of it. You said that he made a ton of mistakes and only won because of the players in Colo and then say that he is improving because he went to a team that had room for improvement. Don't you see the obvious contradiction in your logic? You can't have it both ways. The guy may not get his current team to the cup but then I can name a ton of coaches who everyone thinks are great that won the cup with their ultra talented teams only to never win it again.

Hartley, in my opinion, did a good enough job to have earned a spot with the avs for a few more seasons then he was given and I think that it wouldn't matter who (with the exception of two coaches I can think of) you put behind the Avs bench after he won the cup. The team had just lost a hall of famer and made a couple of other trades that had a significant impact on its depth and it took a little while to get back to championship level. Now it is going to be TG's fault that they aren't the most dominant team in the league after losing the greatest goalie of all time and adding a whinning baby (who is one of the most talented players at his position in a long time) and another all star in TS. It takes a little time to get everyone on the same page. Certainly more than 6 or 7 games into the season but that again is just my opinion.

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Old
10-22-2003, 09:37 AM
  #59
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Yeah, I get what you're trying to say. But the fact of the matter is, the teams that he coached were built to win it all ... not come so close only to fail. In most of the deep runs he had in the playoffs, you can clearly cite instances where he was greatly outcoached (against Bowman and Hitchcock more specifically) and the team ended up losing.

And althoug he did the "right" thing on the Bourque cup run by sitting back, the way you described him makes him sound like the tool/puppet figure that I always believe he was in the organization.

Mix that with the fact that he sometimes was too stubborn to change up a "losing" formula (see the PK), and you see more than enough reasons for him toward his firing.

I view him as an average coach. Unfortunately this team doesn't need just and "average" coach behind the bench -- they need a good one. Neither Hartley nor Granato should have been thrust into the positions in the first place IMO.

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10-22-2003, 09:51 AM
  #60
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But didn't those two coaches you mentioned both go on to win the Stanley Cup? Aren't you being a bit myopic here? I mean, isn't it possible that Hartley lost to the better teams in both of those occasions? Just asking.

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10-22-2003, 09:58 AM
  #61
Ensane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGM
But didn't those two coaches you mentioned both go on to win the Stanley Cup? Aren't you being a bit myopic here? I mean, isn't it possible that Hartley lost to the better teams in both of those occasions? Just asking.
Well if you look at each incident, like I said, in some occasions games were won and lost based on coaching abilities.

The teams were quite even in each of hte 3 cases I'm thinking of ... that's why they each went to 7 games.

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