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Tomas Plekanec - Hope He Heats Up Soon Edition (HE SLEEPIN)

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Old
12-04-2016, 03:14 AM
  #51
Asamu
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Foreigner - Cold as ice

You're as cold as ice
You're willing to sacrifice our love
You never take advice
Someday you'll pay the price, I know

I've seen it before
It happens all the time
Closing the door
You leave the world behind

You're digging for gold
Yet throwing away
A fortune in feelings
But someday you'll pay

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12-04-2016, 03:16 AM
  #52
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double post sorry!

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12-04-2016, 04:09 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Here's hoping Turtleneck comes back soon. We need his offense.
I like your positivity LG.

But I torched pleks this summer and was flamed for it.

Turns out I was correct.

You know my opinions on habs c. Well documented the last 7 years.

Habs are not winning a cup with pleks at number 2 or even number 3 C.

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Old
12-04-2016, 04:25 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by crystal ball View Post
You know what stinks about the bandwagon currently running over Pleks on a nightly basis? The guy is a career Hab. He's spent his entire pro career trying to help this team win, even though he was shoved into a role as top center that he didn't really fit. He has spent much of his prime years with terrible wingers at the whim of coaches like Therrien and Martin and he never complained. He didn't say a word when he was worn down over the course of a season by playing four minutes a night on the PK, a well as even strength and PP. When he had his best season with Kovalev on his wing, he didn't get a fat head and pretend he was the second coming of Gretzky. He's always worked hard and been his own harshest critic.

Plekanec has had some really important contributions to this team over his years and if he's in his mid thirties and slowing down now, it's natural that he should be given less responsibility and used in different situations. It's not his fault the stupid GM gave him too much money for a diminishing role. And it's not his fault that the organization, led by the same GM, has failed to draft, develop, trade for or sign a suitable replacement, even when the dumbest poster on here could see it was going to become an issue eventually.

Pleks isn't Beliveau, but he's a loyal, lifetime Hab who has done his best for the team with the talent he has. He deserves better than to have his whole legacy ignored by fans who only see his current struggles to score.
You're conflating a few things here.

He is a lifelong Hab but that is a two-way street. Another way of putting it is as so: the Habs have given him his career, every oppurtunity to win, many chances in the playoffs (Jokinen played 799 games before playing in the playoffs for the first time, comparatively, Pleks had it very easy)... and he hasn't impressed. He's broken 65 points twice, and that was 7 and 9 years ago. Hit 60 points three seasons ago but his play wasn't that good. Otherwise, as a ~1a/1b centre, he's never impressed. Let's not get into his terrible production in the playoffs.

Plekanec played with great players - Kovalev, Cammalleri, and now Pacioretty. He's notoriously inconsistent and has poor chemistry, but you're implying that the Habs had him lugging around stiffs for his entire career. It's both false and betrays the rest of your post - you're clearly exaggerating.

Playing on the PP, in the top6, with tons of ice-time is a bonus for a player. Every player wants to play more, most players score more and feel better with more ice-time and trust. Jacques loved Pleks and rewarded him with ice-time all the time. How you spin that to make it seem like the Habs overworked him but he kept quiet because he's such a hard worker is downright silly.

At the whim of coaches like Therrien and Martin? What does that even mean? Players are at the whim of their coaches. Koivu didn't even retire a Hab, he was at the whim of even worse coaches. Is that an excuse? Does Pleks deserve to play only at the whim of Babcock and Quenneville? Are the current players who are performing consistently, sacrificing their body, and not crapping the bed (Markov, Galchenyuk, Weber, Price, etc.) - are they especially treated and coddled by Therrien? Are you implying that Therrien has it out for Pleks?

ABSURD.

Almost everyone is their own harshest critic. Your post is full of those vague platitudes. I don't understand where you're coming from. Are you Tomas Plekanec himself? Or his therapist?? His mother???

Most of the time when folks criticise players, they're criticising them for their performance on-ice and not personally. So criticising his performance or his contract or his latter career isn't an attack on Plekanec the person and shouldn't be reacted to as if it were. Hint hint. There is no fault on Pleks with his contract but people have a right to be aggrieved that we have to deal with the contract today.

Your last paragraph is unnecessary. Everybody knows Pleks isn't Beliveau. He isn't Koivu either. Koivu hasn't been forgotten but no one pretends like he had a glimmering legacy, so let's not pretend that Pleks has one either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I think there's somewhere in between what you're saying and what crystal ball wrote. Well, not even in between; rather, the two aren't mutually exclusive thoughts.

I suppose I haven't read enough of your thoughts on the matter, but are you proposing that the team trade Plekanec? Hope that he's taken in expansion (and if not, then what?)? Buy him out? Or just limit his ice time?

I think crystal ball's point is legitimate overall though: developing a strong organisation requires, in my mind, a culture. Having players like Plekanec and Markov are good for that: players who work and don't complain. Plekanec can be a good role player, even if his skills have diminished. He needs to be employed in that way, but he still can perform in that regard. I think you would agree with that. And I think you'd probably agree that maintaining continuity with such players is generally positive. Tell me where I'm wrong here, though.
Pleks should be packaged with Beaulieu for an upgrade at C. Failing that, he should be exposed and hopefully picked up by the Las Vegas team.

You're giving Pleks too much credit - sometimes that very same benefit (continuity) works against your intentions. If Pleks has a crap game, like he often does these days, his status as a veteran shields him from criticism. That's why Therrien & Co. enjoyed ripping on PK a lot more than on Gorges, and "work with" Chucky a lot more than with Pleks.

At this point, with 1 goal in 24 games, Pleks is the gargoyle haunting that lockerroom. You don't need continuity for underperforming players. And Pleks has never, ever raised his game. He simply doesn't hae it in him. This isn't a new criticism, this isn't a recent reactionary position - it's pretty much established through his track-record.

You don't need continuity with players that underperform. Look at how Bill Belichick runs his team - you sell players before they decline, and don't stick with them after they disappoint. Markov adapted his game, he's still an elite producer and vital to the team. Pleks - not as much.

I'd argue that you're confused in your assessment of him. If you want him in a reduced role, then you're admitting that he's a sunk-cost on our caphit, arguably to the tune of ~3.5m. Then you're arguing that Plek's leadership and presence makes up for that massive sunk cost. I think almost everyone here would disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If you draft well enough to not ever need free agents ever, sure. I mean, Playstation management works on Playstation, so why not real life, right?

Answer: because in real life loyalty, continuity, and professionalism matter, and if you actually made a strict habit of trading every player away by age 30 so as to avoid every possible "down year" any player could ever have, you'll never attract anyone from outside your organization. Ever. No 30 year old Radulovs would sign with teams who show veterans such little respect.

And not only is this a player who filled his role for below market value for years, he also remains our best defensive forward to this day, and seems to be playing exactly how his coach asks/expects minus the actual finishing of chances. But yeah, you, 417, and PaulD can chest bump and ******* each other through this thread if you like now that there's actually(/finally) a bit of blood in the water to get you worked up.
There's a world of ways to deal with declining players. You're implying that cutting them loose is always wrong. I think Pleks has had plenty of opportunities over the years, both with linemates and icetime, and he's not made himself irreplaceable.

You posed a good question before, "who would you replace him with?", I'd say even a lateral trade (with cap relief) would be good because I think Pleks has a negative influence in the lockerroom right now. Not out of any malice, but because he's a veteran who has gotten too comfortable and in a routine. He hasn't adapted his game, he hasn't changed his approach at all - we see him take the same shortcuts every game, avoid contact all the same, take the same ******** shots (weaker than ever), etc. And it would also serve as a wake-up to the rest of the slumping line-up. Two years of this - getting carried by Price and letting the entire organization down after ~15 games. It's exhausting, and it's time for a change.

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Old
12-04-2016, 04:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Pleks should be packaged with Beaulieu for an upgrade at C. Failing that, he should be exposed and hopefully picked up by the Las Vegas team.

...

I'd argue that you're confused in your assessment of him. If you want him in a reduced role, then you're admitting that he's a sunk-cost on our caphit, arguably to the tune of ~3.5m. Then you're arguing that Plek's leadership and presence makes up for that massive sunk cost. I think almost everyone here would disagree.
I'm not arguing for keeping him necessarily. I just don't see a good alternative. And I note that you put the least attention in your response to that question. I don't see packaging Plekanec with anything leading to an upgrade at C. And the hope that he'd be picked up by LV means the team is still with Plekanec for the remainder of the year, with only a hope at the end of the season. Not much of an action plan, it seems.

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12-04-2016, 05:26 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If you draft well enough to not ever need free agents ever, sure. I mean, Playstation management works on Playstation, so why not real life, right?

Answer: because in real life loyalty, continuity, and professionalism matter, and if you actually made a strict habit of trading every player away by age 30 so as to avoid every possible "down year" any player could ever have, you'll never attract anyone from outside your organization. Ever. No 30 year old Radulovs would sign with teams who show veterans such little respect.

And not only is this a player who filled his role for below market value for years, he also remains our best defensive forward to this day, and seems to be playing exactly how his coach asks/expects minus the actual finishing of chances. But yeah, you, 417, and PaulD can chest bump and ******* each other through this thread if you like now that there's actually(/finally) a bit of blood in the water to get you worked up.
You always resort to these insults to the intelligence of others; Gaustad got Buffalo a 1st rounder that became Girgensons a bit later. This was when the Habs knew Plekanec was starting to slow down. It's called selling high, buying low. It happens every single day, in real life.

The rule of trading guys on the decline (because this is what I was talking about) would bring all the free agents you ever want. In real life, these players want to win.

A bit of blood in the water? It's too late. You are like the guy who holds on to the Research in Motion(now Blackberry) stock because "I still use a keyboard".

I wanted him gone when he was scoring over 50 pts because I knew we needed a real wave of talent that can grow together. So that, right now, we are not in that spot where we are a good team, that doesn't "quite" have it because we are always 1-2 players away. Face the facts, Plekanec might start producing offence tomorrow, but, he's not going to get better. I thought we needed to try and get a better player.

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12-04-2016, 06:26 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I'm not arguing for keeping him necessarily. I just don't see a good alternative. And I note that you put the least attention in your response to that question. I don't see packaging Plekanec with anything leading to an upgrade at C. And the hope that he'd be picked up by LV means the team is still with Plekanec for the remainder of the year, with only a hope at the end of the season. Not much of an action plan, it seems.
There is a utility to criticism in and of itself. Plekanec deserves criticism, his contract, the extension, his performance as a whole all deserve criticism. You know that none of us can devise a proper action plan to deal with his terrible performance and contract, the most we can do is speculate and offer some vague ideas.

Both yourself and Ohashi cite continuity as a factor without considering the very evident downside to continuity for its own sake.

If I were GM, I'd fire Therrien. And only after that would I look at dealing DD and Pleks. But if Therrien has to stay, I'd look to deal both of them, DD for picks or some prospect, and Pleks and Beaulieu and some other assets for a top6 C.

You don't see that package as worthwhile, okay. But clearly you don't have any solutions, any ideas, any action plan of your own, so you simply brush off the rest of us. Wonderful discourse. Thanks.

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12-04-2016, 06:49 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
There is a utility to criticism in and of itself. Plekanec deserves criticism, his contract, the extension, his performance as a whole all deserve criticism. You know that none of us can devise a proper action plan to deal with his terrible performance and contract, the most we can do is speculate and offer some vague ideas.

Both yourself and Ohashi cite continuity as a factor without considering the very evident downside to continuity for its own sake.

If I were GM, I'd fire Therrien. And only after that would I look at dealing DD and Pleks. But if Therrien has to stay, I'd look to deal both of them, DD for picks or some prospect, and Pleks and Beaulieu and some other assets for a top6 C.

You don't see that package as worthwhile, okay. But clearly you don't have any solutions, any ideas, any action plan of your own, so you simply brush off the rest of us. Wonderful discourse. Thanks.
I don't see what you're talking about here. Who says I've brushed anything off? If you look at my (few) posts on the matter, I wrote clearly that I don't disagree at all with 417's take on Plekanec. I don't see a particularly good solution with regards to moving him, and I don't quite agree with you on Plekanec being a negative on the team. I was asking you genuinely if you had a solution; not to brush off your viewpoint or criticism, but rather to make it constructive (ironic, given that you've accused me of discouraging discourse!). Perhaps I haven't conveyed my utter neutrality adequately.

My 'solution' would be to minimize Plekanec's role. Play him as a third liner. Give his minutes over to Galchenyuk. If he's slowing down, then he shouldn't be doing the same sort of lifting as he's been accustomed to doing. His minutes should be capped in the ~15-16 minute range, with good PK time. Use him in a defensive/exploitation role (if he can handle the latter). I doubt this sort of usage would increase his value for a potential trade, given his hefty price tag, but it may turn him into more of a positive player for the club.

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12-04-2016, 08:26 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bloumeister View Post


Tomas Plekanec after team was eliminated in play offs

"i played like a little girl"

(and that was when he was in his prime)

He's honest, gotta give him that.

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12-04-2016, 08:28 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
I like your positivity LG.

But I torched pleks this summer and was flamed for it.

Turns out I was correct.

You know my opinions on habs c. Well documented the last 7 years.

Habs are not winning a cup with pleks at number 2 or even number 3 C.
Ditto.

Got torched when i said he was finished and predicted he will go out a la Gomez.

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12-04-2016, 08:41 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're conflating a few things here.

He is a lifelong Hab but that is a two-way street. Another way of putting it is as so: the Habs have given him his career, every oppurtunity to win, many chances in the playoffs (Jokinen played 799 games before playing in the playoffs for the first time, comparatively, Pleks had it very easy)... and he hasn't impressed. He's broken 65 points twice, and that was 7 and 9 years ago. Hit 60 points three seasons ago but his play wasn't that good. Otherwise, as a ~1a/1b centre, he's never impressed. Let's not get into his terrible production in the playoffs.


Plekanec played with great players - Kovalev, Cammalleri, and now Pacioretty. He's notoriously inconsistent and has poor chemistry, but you're implying that the Habs had him lugging around stiffs for his entire career. It's both false and betrays the rest of your post - you're clearly exaggerating.

Playing on the PP, in the top6, with tons of ice-time is a bonus for a player. Every player wants to play more, most players score more and feel better with more ice-time and trust. Jacques loved Pleks and rewarded him with ice-time all the time. How you spin that to make it seem like the Habs overworked him but he kept quiet because he's such a hard worker is downright silly.

At the whim of coaches like Therrien and Martin? What does that even mean? Players are at the whim of their coaches. Koivu didn't even retire a Hab, he was at the whim of even worse coaches. Is that an excuse? Does Pleks deserve to play only at the whim of Babcock and Quenneville? Are the current players who are performing consistently, sacrificing their body, and not crapping the bed (Markov, Galchenyuk, Weber, Price, etc.) - are they especially treated and coddled by Therrien? Are you implying that Therrien has it out for Pleks?

ABSURD.

Almost everyone is their own harshest critic. Your post is full of those vague platitudes. I don't understand where you're coming from. Are you Tomas Plekanec himself? Or his therapist?? His mother???

Most of the time when folks criticise players, they're criticising them for their performance on-ice and not personally. So criticising his performance or his contract or his latter career isn't an attack on Plekanec the person and shouldn't be reacted to as if it were. Hint hint. There is no fault on Pleks with his contract but people have a right to be aggrieved that we have to deal with the contract today.

Your last paragraph is unnecessary. Everybody knows Pleks isn't Beliveau. He isn't Koivu either. Koivu hasn't been forgotten but no one pretends like he had a glimmering legacy, so let's not pretend that Pleks has one either.



Pleks should be packaged with Beaulieu for an upgrade at C. Failing that, he should be exposed and hopefully picked up by the Las Vegas team.

You're giving Pleks too much credit - sometimes that very same benefit (continuity) works against your intentions. If Pleks has a crap game, like he often does these days, his status as a veteran shields him from criticism. That's why Therrien & Co. enjoyed ripping on PK a lot more than on Gorges, and "work with" Chucky a lot more than with Pleks.

At this point, with 1 goal in 24 games, Pleks is the gargoyle haunting that lockerroom. You don't need continuity for underperforming players. And Pleks has never, ever raised his game. He simply doesn't hae it in him. This isn't a new criticism, this isn't a recent reactionary position - it's pretty much established through his track-record.

You don't need continuity with players that underperform. Look at how Bill Belichick runs his team - you sell players before they decline, and don't stick with them after they disappoint. Markov adapted his game, he's still an elite producer and vital to the team. Pleks - not as much.

I'd argue that you're confused in your assessment of him. If you want him in a reduced role, then you're admitting that he's a sunk-cost on our caphit, arguably to the tune of ~3.5m. Then you're arguing that Plek's leadership and presence makes up for that massive sunk cost. I think almost everyone here would disagree.



There's a world of ways to deal with declining players. You're implying that cutting them loose is always wrong. I think Pleks has had plenty of opportunities over the years, both with linemates and icetime, and he's not made himself irreplaceable.

You posed a good question before, "who would you replace him with?", I'd say even a lateral trade (with cap relief) would be good because I think Pleks has a negative influence in the lockerroom right now. Not out of any malice, but because he's a veteran who has gotten too comfortable and in a routine. He hasn't adapted his game, he hasn't changed his approach at all - we see him take the same shortcuts every game, avoid contact all the same, take the same ******** shots (weaker than ever), etc. And it would also serve as a wake-up to the rest of the slumping line-up. Two years of this - getting carried by Price and letting the entire organization down after ~15 games. It's exhausting, and it's time for a change.
WhiskeySeven, this is some of the best writing I have had the

pleasure of reading on this board. Extremely informative and deadly

accurate.

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12-04-2016, 09:51 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I think there's somewhere in between what you're saying and what crystal ball wrote. Well, not even in between; rather, the two aren't mutually exclusive thoughts.

I suppose I haven't read enough of your thoughts on the matter, but are you proposing that the team trade Plekanec? Hope that he's taken in expansion (and if not, then what?)? Buy him out? Or just limit his ice time?

I think crystal ball's point is legitimate overall though: developing a strong organisation requires, in my mind, a culture. Having players like Plekanec and Markov are good for that: players who work and don't complain. Plekanec can be a good role player, even if his skills have diminished. He needs to be employed in that way, but he still can perform in that regard. I think you would agree with that. And I think you'd probably agree that maintaining continuity with such players is generally positive. Tell me where I'm wrong here, though.
The time to trade Plekanec has already come and gone, I'm way past that now. I don't think he's an attractive option for other teams due to his play and his contract.

I think Plekanec is essential to the Habs success though, because for better or for worst, they're stuck with him, so they need him to play like he's capable of playing.

Not like he's been playing the last calendar year.

I'm not an unreasonable person, I understand his value to the team, that's why it frustrates me so much to watch him play like he has...and what's even more frustrating is to read all the excuses he gets because he's a popular player.

I'm not sentimental when it comes to Sports, it's a performance league....hes getting paid handsomely to do a job that I don't think he's coming close to approaching right now. I don't care if he's been a loyal soldier, there will be plenty of time to be nostalgic when his career is done.

While others want to spend their days complaining about the play of guys like Desharnais, who have ZERO impact on this teams fortune's, I care to focus on a player who I think isn't delivering because I also think he's crucial to this teams success.

I don't see what wrong with that? Plekanec deserves to be called out right now, I don't know how anyone could legitimately argue against that .

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12-04-2016, 09:54 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If you draft well enough to not ever need free agents ever, sure. I mean, Playstation management works on Playstation, so why not real life, right?

Answer: because in real life loyalty, continuity, and professionalism matter, and if you actually made a strict habit of trading every player away by age 30 so as to avoid every possible "down year" any player could ever have, you'll never attract anyone from outside your organization. Ever. No 30 year old Radulovs would sign with teams who show veterans such little respect.

And not only is this a player who filled his role for below market value for years, he also remains our best defensive forward to this day, and seems to be playing exactly how his coach asks/expects minus the actual finishing of chances. But yeah, you, 417, and PaulD can chest bump and ******* each other through this thread if you like now that there's actually(/finally) a bit of blood in the water to get you worked up.
a bit of blood in the water???

Jeez!

How long is this guy going to continue to get a free pass?

Can you imagine, for one second, that Pacioretty had 8 goals in his last 100 games?

The guy is already getting roasted and there's an active campaign to either get him out of town or at the very least, get him to give up his captaincy and he's got more than double the points Plekanec has.

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12-04-2016, 10:00 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
a bit of blood in the water???

Jeez!

How long is this guy going to continue to get a free pass?

Can you imagine, for one second, that Pacioretty had 8 goals in his last 100 games?

The guy is already getting roasted and there's an active campaign to either get him out of town or at the very least, get him to give up his captaincy and he's got more than double the points Plekanec has.
It wouldn't hurt Pleks to sit a game and watch, it could motivate him...as long as MT doesn't give bigger minutes to a C man who is playing even worse...Pleks Bgally and Max could all use a timeout for hotdogs in the pressbox, one game at a time.......to get them going...why not? The status quo right now is a joke...but I would start with Pleks.

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12-04-2016, 10:02 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I don't see what you're talking about here. Who says I've brushed anything off? If you look at my (few) posts on the matter, I wrote clearly that I don't disagree at all with 417's take on Plekanec. I don't see a particularly good solution with regards to moving him, and I don't quite agree with you on Plekanec being a negative on the team. I was asking you genuinely if you had a solution; not to brush off your viewpoint or criticism, but rather to make it constructive (ironic, given that you've accused me of discouraging discourse!). Perhaps I haven't conveyed my utter neutrality adequately.

My 'solution' would be to minimize Plekanec's role. Play him as a third liner. Give his minutes over to Galchenyuk. If he's slowing down, then he shouldn't be doing the same sort of lifting as he's been accustomed to doing. His minutes should be capped in the ~15-16 minute range, with good PK time. Use him in a defensive/exploitation role (if he can handle the latter). I doubt this sort of usage would increase his value for a potential trade, given his hefty price tag, but it may turn him into more of a positive player for the club.
Agree with this - unfortunately, there are no alternatives, hence why I was a heavy advocate of trading him 3-4 years ago, I was roasted for this opinion, but to me, it was easy to forecast what we're seeing today.

The only hope the Habs have with Plekanec is that he finds his game again, even a portion of it.

That or reduce his role and have him Focus entirely on playing a defensive role, but that still doesn't solve the teams problem of having another C support Galchenyuk offensively.

It's just frustrating for me - because for years I watched our coaches overuse Plekanec and inflate his worth, which resulted in a contract that paid him way too much for the player he was and was transitioning into.

Well we're here now.

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12-04-2016, 10:05 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
It wouldn't hurt Pleks to sit a game and watch, it could motivate him...as long as MT doesn't give bigger minutes to a C man who is playing even worse...Pleks Bgally and Max could all use a timeout for hotdogs in the pressbox, one game at a time.......to get them going...why not? The status quo right now is a joke...but I would start with Pleks.
personally - with the way Plekanec's playing this year, anyone who plays wing with him, gets a pass from me.

Literally EVERY winger who has played with #14 this year has done SQUAT!

In fact, the player who looked best playing on his wing was Desharnais lol

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12-04-2016, 10:08 AM
  #67
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personally - with the way Plekanec's playing this year, anyone who plays wing with him, gets a pass from me.

Literally EVERY winger who has played with #14 this year has done SQUAT!

In fact, the player who looked best playing on his wing was Desharnais lol
OK, now that's just scaring me...lol

My Xmas wish list...
MT gets fired...Muller takes over
DD goes to NFLD to kiss the cod
Muller holds vets like Pleks accountable
Muller sits vets as needed...
Big Mac gets re-called

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12-04-2016, 10:17 AM
  #68
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for most of his career, plecs has been a very underrated. he didn't get the recognition that he deserved when he played so well, an intelligent game. he called himself out when he played poorly, re: his little girl comment.

during that time when he made that comment, i appreciated his candor and was hopeful that he was acknowledging his shortcomings and was fully intent on addressing them. i felt he really cared.

however, after that, i never really saw something appreciably more. and unfortunately, his regular season consistency has depreciated extremely hard. i fear his time has passed. some gradually decline, others drop like its hot.

it's disappointing for sure. as i did appreciate plecs in his prime unappreciated years. i do like underdogs but only when they seize their opportunities.

in the waning moment, its this time that's more precious, for himself, to show what he's truly about. can he overcome the self entitled little girl designation, or does he have something left.

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12-04-2016, 11:30 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Native View Post
for most of his career, plecs has been a very underrated. he didn't get the recognition that he deserved when he played so well, an intelligent game. he called himself out when he played poorly, re: his little girl comment.

during that time when he made that comment, i appreciated his candor and was hopeful that he was acknowledging his shortcomings and was fully intent on addressing them. i felt he really cared.

however, after that, i never really saw something appreciably more. and unfortunately, his regular season consistency has depreciated extremely hard. i fear his time has passed. some gradually decline, others drop like its hot.

it's disappointing for sure. as i did appreciate plecs in his prime unappreciated years. i do like underdogs but only when they seize their opportunities.

in the waning moment, its this time that's more precious, for himself, to show what he's truly about. can he overcome the self entitled little girl designation, or does he have something left.
The biggest correlation that no ones talks about much, is how height-size, affect tail-end career performance curves. IE. when smaller players slow down, they lose most of their games quickly. When taller-more sizeable players slow down, they can do things a bit differently, but still have something to offer.

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12-04-2016, 11:45 AM
  #70
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There's a world of ways to deal with declining players. You're implying that cutting them loose is always wrong. I think Pleks has had plenty of opportunities over the years, both with linemates and icetime, and he's not made himself irreplaceable.

You posed a good question before, "who would you replace him with?", I'd say even a lateral trade (with cap relief) would be good because I think Pleks has a negative influence in the lockerroom right now. Not out of any malice, but because he's a veteran who has gotten too comfortable and in a routine. He hasn't adapted his game, he hasn't changed his approach at all - we see him take the same shortcuts every game, avoid contact all the same, take the same ******** shots (weaker than ever), etc. And it would also serve as a wake-up to the rest of the slumping line-up. Two years of this - getting carried by Price and letting the entire organization down after ~15 games. It's exhausting, and it's time for a change.
Well, your premise is wrong. I wasn't advocating blind loyalty. I was quite obviously replying to the suggestion that loyalty be totally thrown out the window with SOLR's philosophy of (and I quote again) "trade them early, recycle their asset value, win." You can't do that with every asset, for the reasons I mentioned. We have at least two guys in particular - Plekanec and Markov - who have earned significantly more loyalty than that over the years.

And the suggestion that Plekanec is a negative in the room in any way is patently ridiculous. "Too comfortable as a veteran in a routine"... lol. Very much incongruous with spending extra time at practice shooting pucks on top of shouldering the most on-ice responsibility (last game aside) as a low maintenance and professional veteran who has never complained about his role. Yes, he's converting on a very low number of his shots so far. No need to make up things that you have absolutely no idea about in an effort to explain your dislike for him, though.

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12-04-2016, 11:50 AM
  #71
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Plekanec is the Titanic and Gallagher and Pacioretty are the passengers.
Yeah,
Max doesn't surprise me as a passenger but Brendan does.

A He is hurt.
B He doesn't feel like being the grunt with that duo.
C His agent told him to play a different game to prolong his career.

His pace seems to pick up as soon as he plays with someone else.
Too many letters on that line?

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12-04-2016, 11:57 AM
  #72
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Question of the day.
If we go to a shoot-out does MT use Plek to try and jump start him?

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12-04-2016, 12:04 PM
  #73
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Yeah,
Max doesn't surprise me as a passenger but Brendan does.

A He is hurt.
B He doesn't feel like being the grunt with that duo.
C His agent told him to play a different game to prolong his career.

His pace seems to pick up as soon as he plays with someone else.
Too many letters on that line?
Meh. Gallagher has 3 point in his last 4 games now that he's not playing on lines that are babysitting non-NHLers. Look at the slump in his numbers during mid November and notice that he played on many combos involving Terry/Hudon/Carr/Andrighetto. Every line that has had to babysit those guys in spot duty has seen their offensive numbers go down, and it hasn't mattered if it was Galchenyuk, Plekanec, or Mitchell at centre.

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12-04-2016, 12:09 PM
  #74
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Question of the day.
If we go to a shoot-out does MT use Plek to try and jump start him?
Great question.............Chucky, Rads, are the two obvious...after that, it's who played a good game and is deserving of it?? If a shootout went down into 5-6 guys, I would then use Pleks...

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12-04-2016, 12:24 PM
  #75
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I like your positivity LG.

But I torched pleks this summer and was flamed for it.

Turns out I was correct.

You know my opinions on habs c. Well documented the last 7 years.

Habs are not winning a cup with pleks at number 2 or even number 3 C.
It's one thing to decline... his production's fallen off a cliff.

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