HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Realistically who can challenge the Penguins?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-13-2016, 10:48 PM
  #51
Pavel Buchnevich
AV AND GORTON OUT
 
Pavel Buchnevich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 17,557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
If the playoffs started today and we are healthy, yeah we'd have a better chance. Was more talking about the teams that could beat the Rangers comment.
Yeah, I was completely trolling with that initial comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
That's hilarious, the Penguins forwards would embarrass the Rangers defense as long as Girardi and Staal are playing..
I don't think you guys have the best defensemen either. Does that make me right? Should I say our forwards would embarrass your defense?

There are improvements in our team from last season, and I don't think you guys would beat us so easily this year. I think a 7 game series would be close, and we could win.

Pavel Buchnevich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:48 PM
  #52
The Panther
Registered User
 
The Panther's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Country: Japan
Posts: 4,716
vCash: 500
It's the first half of the season. Everyone calm down.

The Panther is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:49 PM
  #53
leesmith
Still in.
 
leesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 19,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
I'm gonna go with Columbus.
No No No! We're really not that good. Columbus on your schedule is an easy W, take it to the bank!


















leesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:50 PM
  #54
leesmith
Still in.
 
leesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 19,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutton View Post
the real answer:

Injuries.
Oh, you're good!

leesmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:50 PM
  #55
LeafFever
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5,266
vCash: 500
Lots of teams can beat the Penguins. There is no unstoppable team in the NHL.

LeafFever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:51 PM
  #56
Empoleon8771
Kunitz Was There
 
Empoleon8771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel Buchnevich View Post
I don't think you guys have the best defensemen either. Does that make me right? Should I say our forwards would embarrass your defense?

There are improvements in our team from last season, and I don't think you guys would beat us so easily this year. I think a 7 game series would be close, and we could win.
The Penguins defense hasn't been great this year, but they still don't have boat anchors like Girardi and Staal on it. The Penguins defense is miles ahead of the Rangers defense solely due to those 2 players being on the Rangers defense.

If you compare the two teams, I'm honestly not sure where the Rangers are better than the Penguins. The Penguins have the better center group, RW group and defense. The Rangers are better in net (although that can change if Murray continues his pace and Lundqvist sticks around a .915 save%) and at LW, but I think the Penguins skaters have a clear advantage on the Rangers. The Rangers don't have a game changer at forward, the Penguins have 3 of them. I don't think it would be a blowout (would probably be a really close series), but I don't see any way that the Penguins wouldn't be the clear favorites in that series. If Lundqvist returns to form, all bets are off because he can individually win a series himself.

Empoleon8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:51 PM
  #57
JimmyTwoTimes
Registered User
 
JimmyTwoTimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,143
vCash: 500
By the way, every time they are the favorite they lose. Back in 2008 when they ran over the eastern conference in the playoffs everyone expected them to beat the wings....lost.

2010(defending champs) they were the 4th seed entering the playoffs. The 1st,2nd, and 3rd seeds all lost in the first round... So everyone expected the Pens to have an easy route to another cup. They got Halak'd.

2013 when they won the iginla sweepstakes at the deadline over the bruins. Picked up Morrow, few others. Everybody penciled them in once again for the cup...lost to the bruins in the ECF.

And both cups they did win they were underdogs, firing their coaches during the season.

Yeah I'd rather not be the favorite.

JimmyTwoTimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:52 PM
  #58
Alluckks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2advanced4u View Post
EAST

Bruins
Blue Jackets

WEST

Sharks
Kings
Wild
Classic quality post from a HFB Partner.

Alluckks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:53 PM
  #59
aufheben
Global Moderator
#RIPClendening
 
aufheben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 31,248
vCash: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
The Penguins defense hasn't been great this year, but they still don't have boat anchors like Girardi and Staal on it. The Penguins defense is miles ahead of the Rangers defense solely due to those 2 players being on the Rangers defense.

If you compare the two teams, I'm honestly not sure where the Rangers are better than the Penguins. The Penguins have the better center group, RW group and defense. The Rangers are better in net (although that can change if Murray continues his pace and Lundqvist sticks around a .915 save%) and at LW, but I think the Penguins skaters have a clear advantage on the Rangers. The Rangers don't have a game changer at forward, the Penguins have 3 of them.
DJ Z-Baaaad



__________________

aufheben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:55 PM
  #60
Alluckks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
The Penguins defense hasn't been great this year, but they still don't have boat anchors like Girardi and Staal on it. The Penguins defense is miles ahead of the Rangers defense solely due to those 2 players being on the Rangers defense.

If you compare the two teams, I'm honestly not sure where the Rangers are better than the Penguins. The Penguins have the better center group, RW group and defense. The Rangers are better in net (although that can change if Murray continues his pace and Lundqvist sticks around a .915 save%) and at LW, but I think the Penguins skaters have a clear advantage on the Rangers. The Rangers don't have a game changer at forward, the Penguins have 3 of them. I don't think it would be a blowout (would probably be a really close series), but I don't see any way that the Penguins wouldn't be the clear favorites in that series. If Lundqvist returns to form, all bets are off because he can individually win a series himself.
Rangers have more depth at forward and Staal & Girardi have been better this year than last year; Staal is a Top 4 Defensemen despite the crap he gets. There is really no point in going into this this much - but the point is that the Rangers are capable of beating the Penguins in a series (to answer the OP).

Alluckks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:55 PM
  #61
aufheben
Global Moderator
#RIPClendening
 
aufheben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 31,248
vCash: 69
[mod]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alluckks View Post
Rangers have more depth at forward and Staal & Girardi have been better this year than last year; Staal is a Top 4 Defensemen despite the crap he gets. There is really no point in going into this this much - but the point is that the Rangers are capable of beating the Penguins in a series (to answer the OP).
While that's true, it says very, very little.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-14-2016 at 12:31 AM. Reason: qdp
aufheben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:56 PM
  #62
Drew4u
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 739
vCash: 500
This is a dumb thread. No team is unstoppable in the new NHL. It's all about luck, bounces, timing... They may look good on paper but a hot goaltender could stop them.

Drew4u is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:57 PM
  #63
Alluckks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
DJ Z-Baaaad


Zucc, Zbad, and Nash are all very capable of being gamechangers - just not the same degree as Crosby and Malkin of course. Let's see if Crosby is healthy come playoff time too. Not to mention all of Buch and Miller have shown flashes of gamechanging plays.

Alluckks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:58 PM
  #64
Alluckks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
[mod]
While that's true, it says very, very little.
If Girardi didn't have his contract he would still be a starting Dman on at least 25 rosters in the league. Staal is still a good dman this year as well.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-14-2016 at 12:31 AM. Reason: qep
Alluckks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:59 PM
  #65
ClydeLee
Registered User
 
ClydeLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,598
vCash: 500
like always, the Flyers

ClydeLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 10:59 PM
  #66
aufheben
Global Moderator
#RIPClendening
 
aufheben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 31,248
vCash: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alluckks View Post
If Girardi didn't have his contract he would still be a starting Dman on at least 25 rosters in the league. Staal is still a good dman this year as well.
As a #2 defenseman?

aufheben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:02 PM
  #67
Empoleon8771
Kunitz Was There
 
Empoleon8771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,854
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alluckks View Post
Rangers have more depth at forward and Staal & Girardi have been better this year than last year; Staal is a Top 4 Defensemen despite the crap he gets. There is really no point in going into this this much - but the point is that the Rangers are capable of beating the Penguins in a series (to answer the OP).
Eh I'd really contest that. The Penguins 4th line center is basically on a 40 point pace. 11 of their 12 starting forwards are on pace for over 30 points (only Kuhnhackl isn't), 5 of their 12 starting forwards are on pace for 60 points and 3 of their forwards are over a PPG. The Rangers have a similar proportion of players above a 30 point pace, but they don't have anyone above a PPG and their highest PPG ends up like a 65 point pace. Girardi may be better than what he was last year, but he's still being used like a top-4 defenseman and isn't even close to that. Their defense has the same issue now that it had last year: simply not good enough puck moving talent.

Again, I should emphasize this. Me saying this doesn't mean that the Rangers beating the Penguins is impossible, it's just me saying that I think the Penguins would be more likely to win that series. I think the only team in the East that would be favorites against the Penguins is a healthy Lightning team playing to their capabilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alluckks View Post
Zucc, Zbad, and Nash are all very capable of being gamechangers - just not the same degree as Crosby and Malkin of course. Let's see if Crosby is healthy come playoff time too. Not to mention all of Buch and Miller have shown flashes of gamechanging plays.
He's been healthy for the playoffs in at least the last 2 years (don't know what his deal was in 2014 on whether he was hurt or not) and hasn't played in the playoffs only once in his entire career. His playoff health isn't a concern.

Empoleon8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:03 PM
  #68
Sharppi
5 more years of Dub.
 
Sharppi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 6,204
vCash: 1139
Blackhawks
Sharks
Kings
Wild
Habs
Flyers
Lightning
Rangers
Concussion
Mumps
Forgetting Murray to the airfield and losing him for couple months

Sharppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:05 PM
  #69
The Shovel Penguin
Do work.
 
The Shovel Penguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Country: United States
Posts: 1,080
vCash: 500
The Pens still have a lot to work on, like special teams and D. That and staying healthy matters as well. It's not that hard for a team to lose rhythm, cool off and be out of sorts at just the wrong time when facing a team that is on fire. Basically any playoff team will be a challenge.

I'm optimistic that the Pens can make a good run again, but history isn't in your favor these days if you're the defending champ hoping to repeat.

1993 will tell you all you need to know. NOBODY saw the Islanders beating the Pens back then, and that was probably the best team on paper the Penguins ever had.

The Shovel Penguin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:06 PM
  #70
Bim Jenning
It's Aquilinis fault
 
Bim Jenning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vancouver, Wa
Country: United States
Posts: 9,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMadison View Post
But who can challenge the Canucks?
Benning.

Bim Jenning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:10 PM
  #71
Daximus
Aces Charles
 
Daximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Five Hills
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,439
vCash: 50
If Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang and Murray are healthy in the playoffs I think they win the Cup.

Daximus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:11 PM
  #72
Pavel Buchnevich
AV AND GORTON OUT
 
Pavel Buchnevich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 17,557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
The Penguins defense hasn't been great this year, but they still don't have boat anchors like Girardi and Staal on it. The Penguins defense is miles ahead of the Rangers defense solely due to those 2 players being on the Rangers defense.

If you compare the two teams, I'm honestly not sure where the Rangers are better than the Penguins. The Penguins have the better center group, RW group and defense. The Rangers are better in net (although that can change if Murray continues his pace and Lundqvist sticks around a .915 save%) and at LW, but I think the Penguins skaters have a clear advantage on the Rangers. The Rangers don't have a game changer at forward, the Penguins have 3 of them. I don't think it would be a blowout (would probably be a really close series), but I don't see any way that the Penguins wouldn't be the clear favorites in that series. If Lundqvist returns to form, all bets are off because he can individually win a series himself.
I don't know how much of the Rangers you have watched or what you are going by with your assessment, but Staal and Girardi have not been close to our biggest problem. They've both been pretty good, Kevin Klein has been way more of a liability than either. He's been our only real problem on defense, and even he has started to play better recently.

We don't have the offensive difference makers that you guys have, but I would point out that I think we have more offensive depth. When everyone is healthy, we have 9 top 6 forwards, and 3 other third line forwards. I think our offense is pretty equal to yours because of that. I just checked the goals per game column, and you were leading us for first by .02 coming into today. Might be .03 or .04 after today because we only scored 1 goal against Chicago, but I think both offenses are pretty close when you add it all up. The Penguins and Rangers have two of the top 5 best offenses in the league.

On defense, I just don't agree with you. I think you are underrating Staal and Girardi. The rest of our defense has also done a good job. McDonagh's had a very good season, Skjei's been very good for a rookie, Holden's had a very good season. Klein's rounding into form. Not a great defense, but we're 6th best in GAA with a struggling goalie, so I think there's some misinformation out there about our defense. Your defense is 21st best in the league, so there's evidence that your defense has been struggling, although I wouldn't say thats convincing evidence that your defense will struggle in the playoffs. I don't think either defense is great, but they don't need to be. As long as they hold up, which I think both can, both teams should be able to play well. In goal, its all a guess. Lundqvist has struggled. If he gets back to his best, he's better than Murray. If he continues to struggle, you guys might even have an advantage.

I don't know if we would beat you guys, but I think it would be close this year. I also would rather not play you guys. You guys are the only team that I really don't want to play in the playoffs. Every other team I think we are better team. I'm not sure if we are better than Pittsburgh this year.

Pavel Buchnevich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:12 PM
  #73
JPeeper
Registered User
 
JPeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,616
vCash: 500
Flames son. We turned the corner.

JPeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:23 PM
  #74
WHOneedsSOX
Registered User
 
WHOneedsSOX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiL8r87 View Post
I think LA can be really good.
As a Kings fan, I have to disagree. And yes, I've felt that way all season long and am not just overreacting to tonight's embarrassment. They have way too many holes. Trevor freaking Lewis is on the top line and has more goals than Kopitar. Still very limited depth on the team. Defense is a mess. Doughty isn't playing at his usual levels. Muzzin is playing terribly. Martinez is up and down. After that, there's not much on defense. And I haven't even mentioned than Quick might not be back this season. There's zero margin for error with this team.

As for who can beat Pittsburgh? Who knows. Anyone think Pittsburgh was going to win the cup last year on December 13, 2015? I bet the majority of hockey fans had Washington, Tampa Bay, Anaheim, or Chicago winning at this point of last season.

WHOneedsSOX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2016, 11:26 PM
  #75
Tender Rip
#Haz supa line mates
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 13,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
Minnesota has been good against the Pens over the last few years and has already beaten them in both games this season, one of which was a domination. Koivu seems to be able to shut down Crosby on a pretty consistent basis. Wild probably aren't making it to the cup finals though.
True, Minnesota have been playing us tough.
With there only being two meetings per season however, I don't put too much credence in H2H meets. I am sure Wild fans will be able to do similar with their games against other teams, but from a Pens' fan point of view we have only been playing our best hockey over the last few games (this win streak, really).
Until very recently we were getting outshot in most games and relied too much on the PP to get us wins. Now it looks like we are back to something resembling the hockey that won the Cup (dominant 5 on 5, balanced scoring etc. and having found a great situation for Malkin who looked off in the early goings).

THIS Pens team is very difficult to beat I think. But it is also difficult to stay healthy and on song for 6 months, so as always it is about who is hot, healthy - and lucky - come April.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.