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Expansion Draft Discussion II

View Poll Results: Who do you think Vegas will draft from our team?
Mitchell 3 0.90%
Byron 43 12.84%
Beaulieu 107 31.94%
Emelin 79 23.58%
Davidson 23 6.87%
Benn 36 10.75%
Other 44 13.13%
Voters: 335. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-30-2017, 01:50 PM
  #101
Habaholicgolfer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Plekky is a good example, but Max certainly isn't.

Pacioretty played 34 NHL games in his first season as a pro and then played another 52 NHL games in his second pro season. The guy had 86 NHL games in his first two seasons as a professional. Surely you don't think that's comparable to Charles Hudon's situation.

As for the three years in the minors, I don't understand why you are disputing that all of the sudden.

Charles Hudon is currently playing his third season of pro hockey, all of them predominantly in the minors despite lots of NHL call up requirement from his parent club and despite a season the team wasn't in contention and the big club was dressing people like John Scott, Bud Holloway, Mike Brown and Lucas Lessio, all guys that aren't even in the NHL anymore.

If you think three seasons in the minors is normal "player development" for NHL forwards, and you think there are lots of evidence of it, I'd sure like to see it.
I said 3 years and you changed it to say 3 years +. I'm not disputing it, just clarifying that your twisting things. Patch played 3 season in the AHL. (37, 18, & 27).

Hudon has only played 6 NHL games. This was his season to show his potential (his 3rd season) and once he got his chance, he got injured. And if you don't understand why Hudon was left in the AHL last season (his 2nd season) due to player development then I'm losing hope in you and your ability to be realistic.

You even mentioned about DLR being picked by LV in a previous post. He has also spent the majority of 3 seasons in the AHL did you know? This season also being his 3rd season.

How about Anthony Mantha who was a 1st round pick by the Wings. He spend two seasons in the AHL and this season got his chance. You want more examples?

Once again, it's called player development with prospects that are not elite level. There are many!
If you think LV does not have their eye on some of them, your not being real and have a hard on for veterans.


Last edited by Habaholicgolfer: 01-30-2017 at 01:57 PM.
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Old
01-30-2017, 02:13 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsGorgeous View Post

You even mentioned about DLR being picked by LV in a previous post. He has also spent the majority of 3 seasons in the AHL did you know? This season also being his 3rd season.
I'm acutely aware. I'm also acutely aware that he is not, by any stretch of the imagination, an "impact NHL forward." So it begs the question... why did you bring this up?


Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsGorgeous View Post
How about Anthony Mantha who was a 1st round pick by the Wings. He spend two seasons in the AHL and this season got his chance. You want more examples?
Much like Pacrioretty, you are offering an example that doesn't meet your own criteria. You said there are plenty of examples of guys that spent three years in the minors then became "impact forwards"

You offer, as an example, Max Pacioretty who played 84 games in the AHL and now Anthony Mantha, who has only played two seasons in the minors and even in those two seasons played more NHL games then Charles Hudon has in three.

Again, i begs the question, why would you bring him up, he doesn't fit the criteria.

The fact that you are struggling this much to find these "many" examples speaks volumes.

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Old
01-30-2017, 02:42 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
I'm acutely aware. I'm also acutely aware that he is not, by any stretch of the imagination, an "impact NHL forward." So it begs the question... why did you bring this up?




Much like Pacrioretty, you are offering an example that doesn't meet your own criteria. You said there are plenty of examples of guys that spent three years in the minors then became "impact forwards"

You offer, as an example, Max Pacioretty who played 84 games in the AHL and now Anthony Mantha, who has only played two seasons in the minors and even in those two seasons played more NHL games then Charles Hudon has in three.

Again, i begs the question, why would you bring him up, he doesn't fit the criteria.

The fact that you are struggling this much to find these "many" examples speaks volumes.
The more you post about it the more you realize how many NHL impact players have spend 2, 3, or sometimes even parts of 4 seasons in the AHL developing their games. Everybody knows all players develop at different levels except you apparently. But you just want to disagree for the sake of disagreeing now.

Point of the whole debate? Hudon is not a AHL scrap like you started this whole debate. This is Hudon's 3rd season and when he got his chance, he got 2pts in 3 games playing in limited minutes on the bottom 6 in the linup. AHL scraps my ass!

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Old
02-03-2017, 11:10 AM
  #104
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Habs expension protection list strat

What is the optimal protection list for the habs ?

Starting at Defense. We have to protect Petry and Weber and we have to decide between Emelin and Beaulieu. In both case I dont think we can afford to lose one of them.

We could also protect 4 defs en and 4 fowards (pacio, gally, galchenyuk and Danault) That leave Byron (extremly good contract for what he bring) and Shaw (doest make much sens to deal for him extend is contract to 2022 and not protect him).

I really think the best move would be to deal Beaulieu in a package deal to get a good Center that we will have to protect. We would likely lose Plekanec at the expension draft not that big of a lost for a 6M 3rd liner.

With Radu being UFA and playing like the GOAT I still think we have to wait at the end of the year and dont protect him. It's not very likely Vegas take him.. cuz it only give them a 3 days windows to try to sign him (not really worth it)..

Let say we deal Beaulieu+++ vs Duchene * the most popular trade offer.

The way I see it is that we will get Duchene + Emelin/plek cuz if we dont trade Beaulieu we lose Emelin/plek. (This is only speculation)

Would like to have your thoughts ?

thx

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Old
02-03-2017, 11:29 AM
  #105
M.C.G. 31
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If you want Duchene it's going to take Sergachev. We don't have the high-profile young forward/forward prospect we can afford to trade that would allow us to replace Sergachev in a deal with Beaulieu.

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Old
02-03-2017, 11:57 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.C.G. 31 View Post
If you want Duchene it's going to take Sergachev. We don't have the high-profile young forward/forward prospect we can afford to trade that would allow us to replace Sergachev in a deal with Beaulieu.
If that's the case, then I rather keep Sergachev.

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Old
02-03-2017, 12:02 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
If that's the case, then I rather keep Sergachev.
I agree... Juulsen and Beaulieu can go but Sergachev is a no go.

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Old
02-23-2017, 03:05 PM
  #108
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I've been meaning to revisit my list of protected players. Just my opinion on the forward group, broken up into 3 categories.

No Brainers:
Radulov (I don't want to wait to sign him. Get it done and protect him)
Patches
Gallagher
Galchenyuk
Danault

Bait for Space?:
Plekanec
Shaw

Toss ups:
Mitchell
Byron
Carr
Ghetto
De La Rose
Hudon


Pleks, as reliable as he is defensively and the warrior he's been over the years, will not be brought back after next year, nor do I think he's taken by LV.
Shaw, hasn't proven anything to me, other than all the bonehead penalties. He would need to blow me away in the playoffs for me to change my mind at this point. But really... 3.9mil for another 5 years for what he brings? no thanks.

With that being said..... I think the 2 players I add to the list are Byron and Mitchell. Both have been pleasant surprises and do their jobs admirably while being paid accordingly. Argument can be made for Carr and Ghetto as well but in my mind, can be replaced easier, either internally or via FA. Byron and Mitch are proven warriors, imo.

Is Hudon exposed? Maybe we aren't playing him to limit his exposure? Can't see that being the case but damn... bring him up already! Guess that'll wait till next year. Would imagine he gets resigned, seeing how he's RFA this summer.

For the defense, the only toss up is personal preference between Beaulieu and Emelin - a case can be made for either. For me, I protect Beaulieu.

Weber, Petry, Beaulieu/Emelin

Have your lists changed since the start of the season?

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Old
02-23-2017, 03:12 PM
  #109
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A coworker recently suggested that the reason Edmonton traded Taylor Hall last year was in anticipation of the expansion draft. They knew they probably wouldn't be able to protect Nugent-Hopkins, McDavid, Eberle, AND Hall, so rather than risking losing one of them for nothing, they decided to be proactive and trade one of them. It looked like a stupid trade at the time, but if this is true then it makes a lot of sense.

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Old
02-23-2017, 03:15 PM
  #110
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MB won't leave shaw unprotected after signing him to that deal, that would be bad optics.

Radulov
Patches
Gallagher
Galchenyuk
Danault
Shaw
Byron

MB needs to work out some sort of deal with Vegas to make them pick Plek, maybe trade em a 2nd rounder for it. Then sign a Shattenkirk or one of the KHL star forwards as free agent with Plek's cap space.

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Old
02-23-2017, 03:22 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAntiPrice View Post
MB won't leave shaw unprotected after signing him to that deal, that would be bad optics.

Radulov
Patches
Gallagher
Galchenyuk
Danault
Shaw
Byron

MB needs to work out some sort of deal with Vegas to make them pick Plek, maybe trade em a 2nd rounder for it
. Then sign a Shattenkirk or one of the KHL star forwards as free agent with Plek's cap space.
Agreed. Some may think a 2nd rounder is steep but if MB wants the cap space, LV will be asking for high compensation!

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Old
02-23-2017, 03:23 PM
  #112
Habernack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAntiPrice View Post
MB won't leave shaw unprotected after signing him to that deal, that would be bad optics.
Who cares? Does LV even pick him? Doubt it.

Are the protection lists even made public to anyone other than LV and the NHL? You want to keep a player other Shaw, you do it.

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Old
02-23-2017, 03:25 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habernack View Post
Who cares? Does LV even pick him? Doubt it.

Are the protection lists even made public to anyone other than LV and the NHL? You want to keep a player other Shaw, you do it.
Protecting Shaw or not will become an interesting debate but all depends on how Shaw finishes the year and performs in the playoffs (Hoping we make the playoffs).

The other thing to consider is MB paid a big price to acquire Shaw and also signed him to a deal more than what he is worth (well most think this anyways). Shaw more than likely gets protected.

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Old
02-23-2017, 03:27 PM
  #114
M.C.G. 31
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Unless we acquire someone with term this deadline we'll be keeping Shaw. This organization isn't keeping Mitchell, Flynn, De la Rose, Hudon, Carr or Ghetto over him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsGorgeous View Post
Agreed. Some may think a 2nd rounder is steep but if MB wants the cap space, LV will be asking for high compensation!
This draft sucks anyways and I'm pretty sure we have two second round picks anyways (MTL & WSH) and three next summer (MTL, CHI & WSH). I'd do it to free up the $6m in cap.

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Old
02-23-2017, 03:46 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.C.G. 31 View Post
Unless we acquire someone with term this deadline we'll be keeping Shaw. This organization isn't keeping Mitchell, Flynn, De la Rose, Hudon, Carr or Ghetto over him.
I disagree. Its an opportunity to not only right a wrong, but also hold onto another, more useful player.

Speaking of this organization, it has proven many times over how cut throat they can be. I don't see this move being exempt from that.

If Shaw kills it in the playoffs, by all means, protect him. If he costs us games in the spring like he has in the regular season, you do what you gotta do. And I don't hate the guy (yet). If we get to see Chicago's Shaw eventually, I'm all in!

Why is hockey thought of so highly when it comes to honor between management and the players? You see cut throat moves in all other sports all the time - a massive contract given out and the player being cut when he under performs. Its a business. I want to see the best possible product on the ice. It is what it is.

/rant


Last edited by Habernack: 02-23-2017 at 03:55 PM.
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Old
02-23-2017, 04:28 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladTheLimpWhaler View Post
A coworker recently suggested that the reason Edmonton traded Taylor Hall last year was in anticipation of the expansion draft. They knew they probably wouldn't be able to protect Nugent-Hopkins, McDavid, Eberle, AND Hall, so rather than risking losing one of them for nothing, they decided to be proactive and trade one of them. It looked like a stupid trade at the time, but if this is true then it makes a lot of sense.
those are only 4 of the 7 forwards they can protect, so yes they could have easily protected all of them instead of dumping him. Oilers destroyed themselves with that move. Can't believe they could have had hall at 6 and instead have lucic...what a moron cjhiarelli is.

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Old
02-23-2017, 04:41 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habernack View Post
I've been meaning to revisit my list of protected players. Just my opinion on the forward group, broken up into 3 categories.

No Brainers:
Radulov (I don't want to wait to sign him. Get it done and protect him)
Patches
Gallagher
Galchenyuk
Danault

Bait for Space?:
Plekanec
Shaw

Toss ups:
Mitchell
Byron
Carr
Ghetto
De La Rose
Hudon


Pleks, as reliable as he is defensively and the warrior he's been over the years, will not be brought back after next year, nor do I think he's taken by LV.
Shaw, hasn't proven anything to me, other than all the bonehead penalties. He would need to blow me away in the playoffs for me to change my mind at this point. But really... 3.9mil for another 5 years for what he brings? no thanks.

With that being said..... I think the 2 players I add to the list are Byron and Mitchell. Both have been pleasant surprises and do their jobs admirably while being paid accordingly. Argument can be made for Carr and Ghetto as well but in my mind, can be replaced easier, either internally or via FA. Byron and Mitch are proven warriors, imo.

Is Hudon exposed? Maybe we aren't playing him to limit his exposure? Can't see that being the case but damn... bring him up already! Guess that'll wait till next year. Would imagine he gets resigned, seeing how he's RFA this summer.

For the defense, the only toss up is personal preference between Beaulieu and Emelin - a case can be made for either. For me, I protect Beaulieu.

Weber, Petry, Beaulieu/Emelin

Have your lists changed since the start of the season?
LV will pick a D from us if we expose Pleks or Shaw. Pleks is overpaid at this point and might leave them after a year, and they'll see Shaw as overpaid and signed for too long. They might pick up Pleks as an established vet to get to the cap floor for the first year, if no similar and better player is available from other teams.

I'd grab Emelin/Beaulieu/Pateryn before both of them if I was LV.

Byron would also be good for them if he's made available. Hudon would be a good choice too.

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Old
03-01-2017, 09:38 PM
  #118
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Who do you think Vegas will select?

Who do you think Vegas is most likely to draft from our team?

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Old
03-01-2017, 09:39 PM
  #119
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Beaulieu or Emelin.

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Old
03-01-2017, 09:43 PM
  #120
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Depends if we resign Markov or not. I presume MB will make sure to resign Rads.

Also, we might protect Byron over Plekanec considering their contracts.

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03-01-2017, 09:53 PM
  #121
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I'm astonished by the number of people who think we wont protect Beaulieu.

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Old
03-01-2017, 09:54 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaP View Post
I'm astonished by the number of people who think we wont protect Beaulieu.
I think Beaulieu gets protected. I think its either Emelin or Plekanec they select.

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Old
03-01-2017, 09:55 PM
  #123
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GMGM will pick randomly, so I did the same. eh.

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Old
03-01-2017, 09:57 PM
  #124
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Quote:
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I'm astonished by the number of people who think we wont protect Beaulieu.
Nate should be the one protected but if he isn't then they will pick him. The only other deal is will MB trade one of either Nate or Emelin in offseason instead of losing them for nothing.

One reason MB may have also traded for guys like Benn and Davidson is too have extra D if he does lose one.

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Old
03-01-2017, 10:00 PM
  #125
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Quote:
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I'm astonished by the number of people who think we wont protect Beaulieu.
Had To vote him anyways I don't trust anything at this point.
He's getting almost zero PP time and almost zero OT time which is ridiculous IMO.
We were running in the high twenty percentile on our PP when Markov was out.
The simple reason was footspeed generated from the back end resulting in better entry more zone time and higher quality scoring chances. I can't be the only person seeing this?
Instead we are now using Patch who let's face it is not the guy you want moving the puck from D to D.

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