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Why are people bringing down Koivu??

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10-21-2003, 08:03 AM
  #1
Habs4ever
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Why are people bringing down Koivu??

he was our best player last year, and we haven't even seen him play yet, so why are so many posters, even from media are having field week, From my understanding Hossa will be sent down to the minors to make place for Koivu, and Ribeiro will probably move back on wing side, BG has said he won't make any move before atleast giving all the players chance to prove themselves, and from look of things Hossa's inability to put the puck in the net will land him in Hamilton, he's not ready to play on top line, atleast from the scoring perspective, though I still like he's size and two way game, hossa needs to get away from spotlight for now, or he'll get burned big time.

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10-21-2003, 08:18 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
he was our best player last year, and we haven't even seen him play yet, so why are so many posters, even from media are having field week, From my understanding Hossa will be sent down to the minors to make place for Koivu, and Ribeiro will probably move back on wing side, BG has said he won't make any move before atleast giving all the players chance to prove themselves, and from look of things Hossa's inability to put the puck in the net will land him in Hamilton, he's not ready to play on top line, atleast from the scoring perspective, though I still like he's size and two way game, hossa needs to get away from spotlight for now, or he'll get burned big time.

It's something with the Montreal media, they did the same thing wehn we had Turgeon, Damphousse and Koivu, at the time Turgeon was our #1 centerman and Koivu was playing very well so they ran him out of town, why do we do this to all our best players, every Habs website I go on, every radio show I listen to, it's trade Koivu, move him to the wing, can't wait til the team (hopefully not) starts loosing 3 or 4 in a row, all the Koivu haters will all suddenly turn into Koivu fans, I mean I like Ribeiro and all, but he's not ready to be our #1 centerman, is he good enough to be our 2nd...yes, can the team survive with Koivu, Ribeiro and Perreault, not to mention Juneau....NO! I know,BG is not dumb enough to trade Koivu or Ribeiro right now, and I know CJ is not dumb enough to move Koivu to the wing or Ribeiro for that matter, that's what MTL fans and media are best known for, driving their best players out of town...Let's see Thursday night when the Islanders come to town, and Mike Peca shadows Mike Ribeiro, we'll see how he does.

I for one love the way the Habs are playing right now, and I only think they can be even better with the addition of Koivu, not to mention Kilger.

edit-Hossa will not and should not be sent down, maybe if people spent less time looking at the name on the back of his jersey, and more on his game they would realize that the effort is there and the results will come.

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10-21-2003, 08:22 AM
  #3
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they won't move ribeiro to the wing
he and zednik are playing too goo to do that
he can't play wing, we saw that last year when they tried him there, he's a natural centre

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10-21-2003, 08:26 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfan19
they won't move ribeiro to the wing
he and zednik are playing too goo to do that
he can't play wing, we saw that last year when they tried him there, he's a natural centre
I know but it's been mentionned that a line combo of Ribeiro-koivu-Zednik could happen, I think it's a horrible idea

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10-21-2003, 08:39 AM
  #5
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Well we need to clear roster spot for Koivu if its not Hossa the who do you propose??

Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
edit-Hossa will not and should not be sent down, maybe if people spent less time looking at the name on the back of his jersey, and more on his game they would realize that the effort is there and the results will come.

Hossa is ready but we need our best players playing in top line right now, and Only Hossa can be sent down to the minors, Considering We can't send anyone else down, so how do you suppose we make this work, who do we lose when we gain Koivu??

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10-21-2003, 09:00 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
It's something with the Montreal media, they did the same thing when we had Turgeon, Damphousse and Koivu, at the time Turgeon was our #1 centerman and Koivu was playing very well so they ran him out of town, why do we do this to all our best players, every Habs website I go on, every radio show I listen to, it's trade Koivu, move him to the wing, ... that's what MTL fans and media are best known for, driving their best players out of town...
The problem is not only driving our best players out of town but who do we get in return:
Loosing Pierre Turgeon to get Corson
Loosing C. Lemieux to get Sylvain Turgeon
Loosing Damphousse to get a draft pick (Hossa)
Loosing Roy and Keane to get Thibeaut, Ruzy and Kovalenko
Loosing Odelein to get back Richer
See my style of phrasing? : loosing

When S. Savard traded Richer to get Muller that was good. When he traded Muller to get P. Turgeon that was a good move at that time.
Other teams trade their best player and get equal player in return.

Why Montreal trade Audi A6 to get Toyota Tercel? (as an example)

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10-21-2003, 09:02 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
It's something with the Montreal media, they did the same thing wehn we had Turgeon, Damphousse and Koivu, at the time Turgeon was our #1 centerman and Koivu was playing very well so they ran him out of town, why do we do this to all our best players, every Habs website I go on, every radio show I listen to, it's trade Koivu, move him to the wing, can't wait til the team (hopefully not) starts loosing 3 or 4 in a row, all the Koivu haters will all suddenly turn into Koivu fans, I mean I like Ribeiro and all, but he's not ready to be our #1 centerman, is he good enough to be our 2nd...yes, can the team survive with Koivu, Ribeiro and Perreault, not to mention Juneau....NO! I know,BG is not dumb enough to trade Koivu or Ribeiro right now, and I know CJ is not dumb enough to move Koivu to the wing or Ribeiro for that matter, that's what MTL fans and media are best known for, driving their best players out of town...Let's see Thursday night when the Islanders come to town, and Mike Peca shadows Mike Ribeiro, we'll see how he does.

I for one love the way the Habs are playing right now, and I only think they can be even better with the addition of Koivu, not to mention Kilger.

edit-Hossa will not and should not be sent down, maybe if people spent less time looking at the name on the back of his jersey, and more on his game they would realize that the effort is there and the results will come.
It's not about hate. Nobody dislikes Koivu as a player. At this point it's about age and whether he can stay healthy. If we can get him playing well and then trade him for some solid assets, it could be a good move.

Remember that three week period Brisebois was playing well leading up to his big contract? I was actually thinking at the time that he had raised his tradeability level... that would have been a perfect time to trade his ass, but we did the worst think imaginable.

I doubt Gainey will do anything like that though. He didn't make any major trades like that when he was in Dallas. But he did have Tom Hicks's pocketbook to sign a bunch of free agents. He doesn't have that here.

Gainey's style is to pick up players and recycle them it seems. I don't know how he'll adjust his style to Montreal's situation. He's the type who will wait forever to do something tho.

I was glad when Turgeon was run out of town, I cannot stand him. Damphousse had basically retired by the time we got rid of him and we got a good return for him too. He had a resurgence for one year in San Jose but he's up to his old floating tricks again.

The reason the team fell apart was because of the Roy trade, the Leclair trade, the CLemieux trade, the Carbo trade and poor drafting. It's basically Savard and Houle's fault, though Houle did pluck a few good ones in the draft.

I trust Gainey.

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10-21-2003, 10:35 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4ever
Hossa is ready but we need our best players playing in top line right now, and Only Hossa can be sent down to the minors, Considering We can't send anyone else down, so how do you suppose we make this work, who do we lose when we gain Koivu??
How about Higgins? What makes you think he cant be sent down?

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10-21-2003, 11:59 AM
  #9
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Anyone who suggests trading Koivu is really just a flat out moron. He may be injury prone, he may be "small", but his talent is top end, his heart is undeniable, and his commitment to Montreal and the Habs is like no other. After all he's been through with the organization, how can you trade the man? How?

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10-21-2003, 12:19 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Hossa is ready but we need our best players playing in top line right now, and Only Hossa can be sent down to the minors, Considering We can't send anyone else down, so how do you suppose we make this work, who do we lose when we gain Koivu??

You forgot the only creature on the world who could camouflage himself in any situation and never show up: Yannic Perreault. Bench him, trade him, put him on the fourth line, I dont care, just keep him away from the 2nd line and anything that has to do with young players development(Ryder).

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10-21-2003, 01:46 PM
  #11
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Move Perreault to the wing. Perreault-Koivu-Ryder. Please lose Audette. Sure,he has 4 or 5 pts.but he's been tagging along on Ryder and Perreault's early season success. Anybody see him fan on that golden opportunity early in last night's game? He's too small and not a team player.

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10-21-2003, 03:11 PM
  #12
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I can`t believe how many proposals there are right now about trading Koivu. We play 5 games win 3 and we know longer need him??? He`s our best forward we wouldn`t get good return for him anyway since he`s a hell of alot more valuable to us than he is too any other team. The habs are playing very well right now and should be even better with Koivu. If we need to send somebody down to make room that`s fine with me. I wouldn`t mind seeing Audette, Perreault traded but not Koivu he`s the heart of this team.

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10-21-2003, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring_Bak_Damphousse
I can`t believe how many proposals there are right now about trading Koivu. We play 5 games win 3 and we know longer need him??? He`s our best forward we wouldn`t get good return for him anyway since he`s a hell of alot more valuable to us than he is too any other team. The habs are playing very well right now and should be even better with Koivu. If we need to send somebody down to make room that`s fine with me. I wouldn`t mind seeing Audette, Perreault traded but not Koivu he`s the heart of this team.
True....Souray is also the heart of this team, along with Koivu

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10-21-2003, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KOMO_ROCKS
True....Souray is also the heart of this team, along with Koivu
It`s too bad there rarely healthy.

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10-21-2003, 04:06 PM
  #15
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I just can't figure out why people don't care about Koivu not being in the line up yet, and saying it's not SUCH a bad thing. After leading the team in scoring last year, making all of his linemates look better every shift because of his smart play and of his playmaking abilities, carrying the team on his shoulders, and being the soul of this team on and off the ice, he has yet to get any credit. What more does he need to prove? Some people say we can't change things that are going pretty well. And what if it was even better with Saku centering the 1st line? Never thought about that?

Just my 2 cents here, I'm sick of hearing people talk about trade rumors and about him being sent down (never thought I'd say that) to Hamilton. It just doesn't make sense. When 100% healthy, Saku WILL regain his #1 center spot, no matter how good Ribeiro may actually look. That's it.

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10-21-2003, 04:22 PM
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I don't think Koivu has to worry because there's no Quebecois on the team who has the stature to become captain in his place. In fact, I can't think of any veteran who could serve more than temporarily. Réjean Tremblay will have to gnash his teeth (if he still has them) awhile longer.

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10-21-2003, 04:24 PM
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There are many factors that I believe come into play that have caused this backlash against Koivu. The major one is the media, honestly their is pure prejudice/racism in a lot of media, making a french versus the world mentality. Also, plain stupidity in the media, and the sheer ignorance of some of the public reading this crap.

An interrelated factor is this love-affair with Mr. Ribeiro. Although he has proven NOTHING, some people are willing to blindly follow and support him. Again he has put up points versus weak teams, and teams who played poorly, and people are willing to hand him over the keys to this team.

Another factor is the pure overrating of young players. Koivu is 29 and for whatever reason people think he is old, the fact is he still has probably 6 good years left, but younger equals better right. Also, his salary, funny how once a guy hits over a certain mark, his name starts popping up in trade rumours all the time. The Tkachuks, Kariya's, Theodore's of the league. Gotta save some money you know.

And there is some (quite the minority) with just a simple pure, and utter dislike for Koivu. We all know who they are on the board and in the media. Whether its jealousy, or the need for attention and go against the majority, whatever. Some here bash him with zero logic.

Just my perspective on the situation.

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10-21-2003, 05:46 PM
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I like Saku, and let's make it clear from the start:

When healthy, he has been our best offensive forward by far.
He is a great captain by his dedication on the ice.

But on the other hand, i maybe wrong, but there's two things:
I've noticed/heard/read that he is short-fused with rookies.
He doesn't look like a great captain in the locker room.

I'd still keep him as our 1st line center, unless we have a *very* good deal. I'm a big fan of Ribeiro but he hasn't played enough yet to prove if he could be a 1st line center on a consistent basis.

Now on the French issue.

It's not essential to speak french to play hockey. But when you're the captain of the Greatest Hockey Franchise ever and it happens to be in a french-speaking city, it is very welcomed to speak at least some words. It could be very easy for Saku to simply say "Merci à mes partisans", a sentence every one could remember by heart.

I'm not angry because he never speaks some words, but it's sad that he miss easy occasions to show class.

Look at Bob Gainey. He learned french when he was the captain and speaks it very well. That was a very classy move from him. He showed he was an intelligent and respectuous person. It was much appreciated by everyone in Québec.

French isn't easy to learn and I know some people are just bad learning languages, fine. But just some words time to time would be nice.

Do you think Italians would be happy if Schumacher never said "Grazie!" ?

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10-21-2003, 05:53 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
See my style of phrasing? : loosing
It's losing!

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10-21-2003, 06:53 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Habs Go
It's losing!
Oh my god, did I made this mistake 6 times in my post?

Thanks for the english lesson.

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10-21-2003, 07:00 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raskolnikov76
I like Saku, and let's make it clear from the start:

When healthy, he has been our best offensive forward by far.
He is a great captain by his dedication on the ice.

But on the other hand, i maybe wrong, but there's two things:
I've noticed/heard/read that he is short-fused with rookies.
He doesn't look like a great captain in the locker room.

I'd still keep him as our 1st line center, unless we have a *very* good deal. I'm a big fan of Ribeiro but he hasn't played enough yet to prove if he could be a 1st line center on a consistent basis.

Now on the French issue.

It's not essential to speak french to play hockey. But when you're the captain of the Greatest Hockey Franchise ever and it happens to be in a french-speaking city, it is very welcomed to speak at least some words. It could be very easy for Saku to simply say "Merci à mes partisans", a sentence every one could remember by heart.

I'm not angry because he never speaks some words, but it's sad that he miss easy occasions to show class.

Look at Bob Gainey. He learned french when he was the captain and speaks it very well. That was a very classy move from him. He showed he was an intelligent and respectuous person. It was much appreciated by everyone in Québec.

French isn't easy to learn and I know some people are just bad learning languages, fine. But just some words time to time would be nice.

Do you think Italians would be happy if Schumacher never said "Grazie!" ?
Well said Raskolnikov76. About the french language issue, that reflecs very well the general feeling of the french speaking of Quebec province. We are not angry but just a little disapointed. Is it so hard to say merci beaucoup aux fans de Montréal ?

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10-21-2003, 07:20 PM
  #22
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-Theodore and Ribeiro are best friends
-Theodore's career is marketed by Guy Cloutier
-Guy Cloutier is a personal friend of Bergeron, Rinfret, Pedneult, Villeneuve and many many other journalists
-Those journalists are aware that Jose earns a little bit too much
-Those journalists are also affraid that the management will have to choose between Koivu and Theodore when they will renogeciate their contract (their contract both ends in two years)
-Those journalists consider "Theo" like their own children
-Those journalists have the power to give Theodore a lot but I mean A LOT of publicity
-Read the first line
-Understand how Ribeiro will get all the publicity and how Koivu will get bashed



On a deeper analyst. There's two group in the locker room. There's the Koivu/Rivet cliq and the Ribeiro/Theodore cliq. The Koivu/Rivet cliq hates the Ribeiro/Theodore cliq as much as I hate watching reality shows (and god I hate those!). All in all, they (Koivu, Rivet and cie) thinks that Theodore and Ribeiro are not sane in the locker room because they don't keep what's said in the locker room secret. They're telling everything to journalists (their friends eh!). Saku and Craig are not close friends to journalists because they want to keep the locker room sane and like it's everywhere in the NHL. But Theodore is a little bit rejected in this locker room, so he tells everything to his friends the medias. That's why Saku is hated and Theodore absolutly admired by the medias.

That's why Theodore and the media should burn in hell (but it doesn't exist so they shouldn't care much).

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10-22-2003, 06:55 AM
  #23
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Interesting comments. We will never know if they are 100% reality but interesting none the less.

Your notes make me think that Theo is a punk and the Koivu clan are more professional. One is destined to stay in Montreal (guess) and the other is bound to be traded.

If this is true, the Habs are destined to remain on the front pages of Le Journal with sensational headlines and bad stats.

Your note made me sad .....

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10-22-2003, 07:00 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax²+bx+c
-Theodore and Ribeiro are best friends
-Theodore's career is marketed by Guy Cloutier
-Guy Cloutier is a personal friend of Bergeron, Rinfret, Pedneult, Villeneuve and many many other journalists
-Those journalists are aware that Jose earns a little bit too much
-Those journalists are also affraid that the management will have to choose between Koivu and Theodore when they will renogeciate their contract (their contract both ends in two years)
-Those journalists consider "Theo" like their own children
-Those journalists have the power to give Theodore a lot but I mean A LOT of publicity
-Read the first line
-Understand how Ribeiro will get all the publicity and how Koivu will get bashed



On a deeper analyst. There's two group in the locker room. There's the Koivu/Rivet cliq and the Ribeiro/Theodore cliq. The Koivu/Rivet cliq hates the Ribeiro/Theodore cliq as much as I hate watching reality shows (and god I hate those!). All in all, they (Koivu, Rivet and cie) thinks that Theodore and Ribeiro are not sane in the locker room because they don't keep what's said in the locker room secret. They're telling everything to journalists (their friends eh!). Saku and Craig are not close friends to journalists because they want to keep the locker room sane and like it's everywhere in the NHL. But Theodore is a little bit rejected in this locker room, so he tells everything to his friends the medias. That's why Saku is hated and Theodore absolutly admired by the medias.

That's why Theodore and the media should burn in hell (but it doesn't exist so they shouldn't care much).
So where are you hidding in the locker room to know all that?

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10-22-2003, 07:42 AM
  #25
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When Théodore's contract expires I think Gainey will offer him less money to keep his salary in line with the new realities. Gainey will have a big bargaining tool if Garon plays well. When Savard negotiated with Théo he was at a disadvantage because Théo had salvaged the 2001-02 season and had won the Vézina and Hart trophies. Théo is unlikely to repeat that performance and his market value will be lower. By that time he will be eclipsed in the NHL by younger goaltenders such as Fleury and perhaps others.

By the way, if these rumors about the cliques are correct, Gainey should consider trading both Théo and Ribeiro at some point. It would unclog the roster when prospects such as Higgins, Plekanec, Urquhart, and Michaud are ready.

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