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P-L Dubois Part 2

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12-28-2016, 05:39 AM
  #1
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P-L Dubois Part 2


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12-28-2016, 09:58 AM
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Glad to start a fresh thread removed from the doomsayers, skeptics and hyperbole masters who wanna write off an 18 year old as a bust before he even steps on a professional rink

I watched both games and he was as advertised: A big bodied, great passing player with supreme vision. Gotta keep in mind he is also playing out of position and with new line mates on this Canada team.

Sure he may not light the ice on fire with his skating and hasn't really shown a scoring instinct but we knew that. He does seem to be a pass first player who could fit nicely in our team >> player system once he grows into his frame.

Its not fair to compare him to Laine or Matthews as they were clearly at least one tier above the next level of prospects, he was--as Jarmo saw it, our best option where we were picking. There is really no legitimate way to dispute that after Puju start and these few games I've seen from PLD. I'm happy with what I saw in these two games.

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12-28-2016, 10:05 AM
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I've seen some pretty dominant performances at the WJC lead to absolutely nothing at the NHL level and vice versa. With PLD being so young, and our team doing well, we can afford to let him develop another year in the Q and maybe even a year in the A. So right now it's pretty hard to tell what we have but I trust that the tools Jarmo sees will come together if brought along properly.

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12-28-2016, 01:21 PM
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"I love this scouting report from you. I will take it with a grain of salt. You're talking about an 18 year old junior player and call him a floater and lazy. Based on what? What you saw in one freaking game. And others are posting otherwise.

I remember a former CBJ player that you worshipped and thought would be a consistent 80 point player after the CBJ traded him. The guy the CBJ would regret trading. The team that got ripped off because the guy they got for him isn't a #1 dman. That guy was the epitome of a floater and a lazy player. But your same eyes didn't see that and now you want me to believe this. Lol."

I've watched him play in both games as well as in juniors. When Johansen was here he was a 1C and played great, don't act like you didn't love him when he was leading our team to the playoffs. You had this to say on him too "I've been critical of Joey. He has really taken a step lately. He has been far more aggressive. He's playing with a purpose. His faceoff skills are excellent. He can do a lot of things to make a difference in a game. I don't care if he ends up being a 1C or a hybrid all around beast. He has the potential to be a good player here for a long time."
Something went wrong and he had a bad season became a scapegoat and was traded for Jones who at the time was not playing at the level he is now. I like the trade now and Jones has become a great dman for us.

It's funny bc I thought PLD in these two games reminded me of Johansen from last season. I want him to be successful but I expect much much more out of a 3OA pick.

WJC don't tell anything about future success in the NHL, however having an average performance thus far in the tournament combined with a slow start in juniors, combined with a meltdown on the ice (when we were told he is a character guy) is giving me doubts on why we picked him instead of someone else.

He has time to turn it around but for all the praise he gets from people I expect more results. Still time left In The tourney to impress.

If you want to play that card I will take everything you say with a grain of salt considering you only have 10 posts from 2014-2015 way to stick with your team through the tough times.


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12-28-2016, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Saad Panda View Post
....With PLD being so young, and our team doing well, we can afford to let him develop another year in the Q and maybe even a year in the A. So right now it's pretty hard to tell what we have but I trust that the tools Jarmo sees will come together if brought along properly.
It is great to see our new toys being developed properly and not broken right out of the box. Let the boy develop some more and see what we have.

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12-28-2016, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ummburger View Post
Glad to start a fresh thread removed from the doomsayers, skeptics and hyperbole masters who wanna write off an 18 year old as a bust before he even steps on a professional rink

I watched both games and he was as advertised: A big bodied, great passing player with supreme vision. Gotta keep in mind he is also playing out of position and with new line mates on this Canada team.

Sure he may not light the ice on fire with his skating and hasn't really shown a scoring instinct but we knew that. He does seem to be a pass first player who could fit nicely in our team >> player system once he grows into his frame.

Its not fair to compare him to Laine or Matthews as they were clearly at least one tier above the next level of prospects, he was--as Jarmo saw it, our best option where we were picking. There is really no legitimate way to dispute that after Puju start and these few games I've seen from PLD. I'm happy with what I saw in these two games.
I don't think anyone has called him a bust, and if they have they are mistaken. However, his Q season isn't going well at all and he's even had run in's with his coach. He hasn't had an impressive showing in the wjc according to multiple people (I have only seen the first game, and he was unimpressive. Can't comment on the 2nd one). This is concerning to me.

Also, he is not playing out of position. Just because he has been playing center for a year now doesn't mean he's a center. He's been a winger all his life aside from the past year. If anything he's playing out of position in CB/wherever he got traded.

And finally, I do agree its not fair to compare him to Laine or Matthews, heck its probably not fair to compare him to anyone else in this draft other than Puljujarvi since that was realistically the #3 pick by everyone else other than Columbus and Montreal.

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12-28-2016, 03:09 PM
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Glad to start a fresh thread removed from the doomsayers, skeptics and hyperbole masters who wanna write off an 18 year old as a bust before he even steps on a professional rink
Don't get down about the liars and the dirty dirty cheats of the world.

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12-28-2016, 03:45 PM
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you'd think the box score watchers would be happy Dubois is at a PPG pace

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12-28-2016, 04:29 PM
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All I really care about is this: What are his choices in clothing and music?

Once I learn this information, I will form an opinion of him and not be swayed from it.

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12-28-2016, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by WannabeFinn View Post
you'd think the box score watchers would be happy Dubois is at a PPG pace
Not when the guy you passed up scored at 2.5 PPG in the same tournament a year prior.

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12-28-2016, 04:52 PM
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Not when the guy you passed up scored at 2.5 PPG in the same tournament a year prior.
ah yes, Jesse "healthy scratch, 1 goal in 24 games" Puljujarvi

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12-28-2016, 04:56 PM
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I didn't catch the 2nd game but I thought he was very good in the first game. Screened the goalie on the 2nd canada goal. Stole the puck on the forecheck that directly led to the 3rd goal. Had the primary assist and fed barzal right in front of the goal for the 4th goal. Also before that 3rd canada goal he fed Stephens in the slot for a prime scoring chance on the rush.

He isn't who i would've picked in the draft, but neither were Wennberg or Werenski. I've learned to trust our scouts.

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12-28-2016, 05:00 PM
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Not when the guy you passed up scored at 2.5 PPG in the same tournament a year prior.
Yet the same player is sitting somewhere far from his WJC line-mates Aho and Laine. Being deemed not to be ready to the NHL despite having the absolute best physical foundation and professional, full-time ice hockey upbringing which is quite unheard choice or advantage (if used...) in Finnish culture. Shouldn't exactly slow you down...

Another (apparently minor detail to the Northern American 'civilization') detail was that Finland unleashed meidän peli, the full power of ice hockey of cooperation under Jukka Jalonen. Jalonen's HPK, build in the previous decade, was to offensive ice hockey what John Tortorella is to defending low centre ice. Meidän peli is laid on that foundation, culminating in the World Championship victory in 2011 and U-20 WJC gold in 2016 under J. Jalonen.

Guess which one of that line's prospects continued to benefit from a meidän peli oriented head coach through Kärpät-WJC-Oilers continuum? I doubt the Blue Jackets were much more willing to pick Puljujärvi 'at fourth' if they were happy to put his output in the proper context to begin with.

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12-28-2016, 05:01 PM
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I didn't catch the 2nd game but I thought he was very good in the first game. Screened the goalie on the 2nd canada goal. Stole the puck on the forecheck that directly led to the 3rd goal. Had the primary assist and fed barzal right in front of the goal for the 4th goal. Also before that 3rd canada goal he fed Stephens in the slot for a prime scoring chance on the rush.

He isn't who i would've picked in the draft, but neither were Wennberg or Werenski. I've learned to trust our scouts.
Team Canada has 10 goals, Dubois was a primary reason for 4 of them and was on the ice for 2 other goals doing his job on the PP.

6/10, not too shabby.

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12-28-2016, 05:04 PM
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Glad to start a fresh thread removed from the doomsayers, skeptics and hyperbole masters who wanna write off an 18 year old as a bust before he even steps on a professional rink

I watched both games and he was as advertised: A big bodied, great passing player with supreme vision. Gotta keep in mind he is also playing out of position and with new line mates on this Canada team.

Sure he may not light the ice on fire with his skating and hasn't really shown a scoring instinct but we knew that. He does seem to be a pass first player who could fit nicely in our team >> player system once he grows into his frame.

Its not fair to compare him to Laine or Matthews as they were clearly at least one tier above the next level of prospects, he was--as Jarmo saw it, our best option where we were picking. There is really no legitimate way to dispute that after Puju start and these few games I've seen from PLD. I'm happy with what I saw in these two games.
Who is writing him off? People have said he hasn't played well this year. He hasn't. People have said he hasn't had a good first two games of the WJC. He hasn't. People have said he still has the talent and skill, but isn't skating well and looks slow (out of shape). I love how some people can't tell the difference between negativity and constructive criticism.

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12-28-2016, 05:05 PM
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Team Canada has 10 goals, Dubois was a primary reason for 4 of them and was on the ice for 2 other goals doing his job on the PP.

6/10, not too shabby.
Yes, he has been a part of some goals. He has been bad the rest of the time. That just shows why he can be so much better. He has the talent. Unless he is stuck in the offensive zone (on the PP), he doesn't look good. He is slow, behind the play, and out of position way too much.

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12-28-2016, 05:12 PM
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Yes, he has been a part of some goals. He has been bad the rest of the time. That just shows why he can be so much better. He has the talent. Unless he is stuck in the offensive zone (on the PP), he doesn't look good. He is slow, behind the play, and out of position way too much.
His line sucks at ES, he and strome don't mesh well and well stephens doesn't do very much, unfortunate but still contributing.

Jost who everyone is gushing over has created 2 goals, well the goal is obviously to put up more goals and Dubois has played a pretty integral part in 6.

he 100% isn't playing as well as last year, the feet aren't moving enough yet hes still a top offensive guy.

The way it looks right now to me is that he can only do so much playing the net front precense on the PP rather than the half wall, and he's still setting up guys for prime chances anyway and he/strome are poop offensively at ES right now.

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12-28-2016, 06:32 PM
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I've watched him play in both games as well as in juniors. When Johansen was here he was a 1C and played great, don't act like you didn't love him when he was leading our team to the playoffs. You had this to say on him too "I've been critical of Joey. He has really taken a step lately. He has been far more aggressive. He's playing with a purpose. His faceoff skills are excellent. He can do a lot of things to make a difference in a game. I don't care if he ends up being a 1C or a hybrid all around beast. He has the potential to be a good player here for a long time."
Something went wrong and he had a bad season became a scapegoat and was traded for Jones who at the time was not playing at the level he is now. I like the trade now and Jones has become a great dman for us.

It's funny bc I thought PLD in these two games reminded me of Johansen from last season. I want him to be successful but I expect much much more out of a 3OA pick.

WJC don't tell anything about future success in the NHL, however having an average performance thus far in the tournament combined with a slow start in juniors, combined with a meltdown on the ice (when we were told he is a character guy) is giving me doubts on why we picked him instead of someone else.

He has time to turn it around but for all the praise he gets from people I expect more results. Still time left In The tourney to impress.

If you want to play that card I will take everything you say with a grain of salt considering you only have 10 posts from 2014-2015 way to stick with your team through the tough times.
Haha. Funny stuff.

I gave up my year two full season PSL's a couple of years ago because my partner bailed on me. How many posts I have made and when I have made them have nothing to do with my allegiance to this team. I post when I want to and I respond to posts that I agree with and disagree with. Just like you do.

I haven't seen much of PLD except for part of a pre-tournament game and training camp. I don't claim to know anything about his play other than what I have read or witnessed in person. I refer to posts from people like you who watch our prospects and are how they are doing.

When you use the terms "floating and lazy" and after reading several other posters reviewing the same player (good and bad) it makes me question what you are seeing.

Remember your guy Johansen (the perennial 80 pt. guy you posted about), he was drafted 4OA, not much lower than PLD. If you think Joey has taken a step this year and is far more aggressive than he has been in the past, then I need to hear no more. We have different thoughts of what we see in players.

I have questioned Jarmo and Co.'s selection of PLD over Jesse Puljujarvi like everyone else. But the final evaluation will come in many years if/when PLD makes the team and shows what he can do in the NHL. It may turn out to be the worse selection ever. And it may not.

Jarmo has stated that he has talked to PLD, that he is doing the things they want him to do and that they don't care about his statistics. Statistics don't always translate to the NHL from juniors whether you're a 2 PPG player or what PLD has done in juniors or in this tournament.

Maybe you think our team should have drafted a different player and maybe your analysis is out of bitterness. Maybe not. You just seem to have some sort of agenda against PLD by calling him a floater and lazy.

Edit: Sorry I don't want to turn this into a Johansen thread but you mentioned above one comment that I made in some thread at the time I thought he was playing well and had made some progress. I could find many more where I said he disappoints me because he plays like he doesn't care. I continue to believe that he could be an elite player if he only had the drive to do so. He doesn't.


Last edited by Byrral: 12-28-2016 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Adding something I forgot
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Old
12-29-2016, 01:04 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulipunaruusu View Post
Yet the same player is sitting somewhere far from his WJC line-mates Aho and Laine. Being deemed not to be ready to the NHL despite having the absolute best physical foundation and professional, full-time ice hockey upbringing which is quite unheard choice or advantage (if used...) in Finnish culture. Shouldn't exactly slow you down...

Another (apparently minor detail to the Northern American 'civilization') detail was that Finland unleashed meidän peli, the full power of ice hockey of cooperation under Jukka Jalonen. Jalonen's HPK, build in the previous decade, was to offensive ice hockey what John Tortorella is to defending low centre ice. Meidän peli is laid on that foundation, culminating in the World Championship victory in 2011 and U-20 WJC gold in 2016 under J. Jalonen.

Guess which one of that line's prospects continued to benefit from a meidän peli oriented head coach through Kärpät-WJC-Oilers continuum? I doubt the Blue Jackets were much more willing to pick Puljujärvi 'at fourth' if they were happy to put his output in the proper context to begin with.
I forgot that the Puljijarvi is struggling against tougher competition and dealing with being in a foreign country at a young age so he clearly is going to be a bust while the guy we drafted is struggling vs lower completion gets the benefit of the doubt and should get a pass.

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12-29-2016, 05:38 AM
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I forgot that the Puljijarvi is struggling against tougher competition and dealing with being in a foreign country at a young age so he clearly is going to be a bust while the guy we drafted is struggling vs lower completion gets the benefit of the doubt and should get a pass.
Actually judging either one right now is flawed. How many of us thought Filatov would be a great player right after his draft? After his hat trick?

How many thought Wennberg would be a #1 C after the draft? After his first year in Cols?

There is no way to tell what these guys will become for at least 3-4 years.

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12-29-2016, 06:08 AM
  #21
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^^ Bingo! on every level. You said what I have been thinking.

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12-29-2016, 08:26 PM
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Dubois just had an awesome rush that led to a goal, picked up an assist.

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12-29-2016, 10:21 PM
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4 assists in 3 games. Not shabby.

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12-29-2016, 11:22 PM
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He was a little better tonight and a lot more engaged. His first few strides are so bad, but he has decent speed wants he gets going. That's why we he does so much better in open ice (PP or on a rush).

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12-29-2016, 11:41 PM
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He was a little better tonight and a lot more engaged. His first few strides are so bad, but he has decent speed wants he gets going. That's why we he does so much better in open ice (PP or on a rush).
Any idea what might be the issue with his first few strides? Is it a conditioning thing? Power?

I feel like that's an issue that can be easily solved over the next couple of years though.

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