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Time for the Hossa counter to start again

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01-30-2006, 07:53 AM
  #1
True Blue
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Time for the Hossa counter to start again

Since his big explosion, Hossa has accomplished exactly nothing to build off. It is seemingly coming down to either him or Hollweg to be in the lineup. Renney has not shown that he will ever bench any player of Czech origin and, with the playoffs squarely in sight, Neimo will not be sat either.
So it is Hossa vs. Hollweg to skate with Ortmeyer & Moore. Personally, I feel that Hollweg is a much better fit on that line than Hossa could ever be and brings more to the team than Hossa has ever shown. However, I know that Hossa will have his defenders. So, it is time to fire up the counter again. Last time, didn't it take Renney something like 25 games with no goals and either no points or 1 point for him to bench Hossa? Now, it has been 3 games since his 2 goal explosion. During those 3 games, Hossa has managed to accumulate exactly one shot on goal.
Looks like Habs fans were dead on about him. He flashes potential for a game or two, and then promptly gets self-satisfied and disappears for a month or two.
This week, with games against the Flyers (who will look to come out hard after getting their doors blown off by Tampa), the Pens (who will also look to come out hard after getting embarassed by the Rangers) and the Isles (nothing else needs to be said), Hossa would be a terrible fit in the lineup instead of Hollweg.
For that matter, as the Rangers fight for playoff positioning, the team is better off having Hollweg in the everyday lineup.

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01-30-2006, 08:12 AM
  #2
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I'm not convinced that Hossa brings any more offense to the line than Hollweg does.

If they had a skills competition, Hossa would win, but not by much. Hollweg seems quicker on the forecheck, better on the cycle and smarter with the puck.

And compared to everything else he brings, Hollweg seems the obvious choice..

I understand Renney's need to keep Hossa from going stale by being scratched so often, but Hollweg should play at say, a 3-1 ratio compared to Hossa.

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01-30-2006, 08:15 AM
  #3
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I agree on all counts, D. Besides, who really cares about a skills when you manage to register 1 more shot in 3 games than Hollweg, who did not even dress for them?

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01-30-2006, 09:07 AM
  #4
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Under normal circumstances...

one would want Hollweg in a lineup against Philly over Hossa...having said that, Hossa did score against Philly on opening night, I believe, and since Weekes once was given a start due to the fact he beat Philly on opening night, that same logic may apply tonight.

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01-30-2006, 09:09 AM
  #5
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What line drew three penalites againts the pens???

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01-30-2006, 09:18 AM
  #6
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Pretty much like past games, SoS...

where that line, with Hollweg, and Hollweg himself, drawing penalties. I think Hossa and Hollweg are very interchangeable. Hollweg hasn't had many 'bad' games, and has chemistry with Moore and Ortmeyer and can be plugged in there at any time. And I believe Renney will go with whatever his gut tells him. If he wants a bit more speed, a bit more of a forecheck and more physical play, he goes with Hollweg; if he wants a greater shot at a goal from the fourth line, he goes with Hossa.

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01-30-2006, 09:22 AM
  #7
Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
where that line, with Hollweg, and Hollweg himself, drawing penalties. I think Hossa and Hollweg are very interchangeable. Hollweg hasn't had many 'bad' games, and has chemistry with Moore and Ortmeyer and can be plugged in there at any time. And I believe Renney will go with whatever his gut tells him. If he wants a bit more speed, a bit more of a forecheck and more physical play, he goes with Hollweg; if he wants a greater shot at a goal from the fourth line, he goes with Hossa.
I think Hollweg is a victim of the numbers game. This team has depth and hasn't suffered (thank you jesus) any major injuries that would allow both to dress in the lineup. We aren't talking about a kid being scratched for a vet anymore. We are talking about a kid being scratched for a kid. Hossa deserves to play right now and i wasnt' his biggest fan earlier in the year. It seems like the layoff has helped his game

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01-30-2006, 09:28 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
We are talking about a kid being scratched for a kid. Hossa deserves to play right now and i wasnt' his biggest fan earlier in the year. It seems like the layoff has helped his game

This isn't about being down on Hossa, it's nice to have talent like that (even if its inconsistent) on the ready, but this is about Hollweg deserving it more.

He's brought more to the table than Hossa has..

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01-30-2006, 09:30 AM
  #9
Fletch
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If you look deep, SoS...

it is a kid being scratched for a vet. Aside from his goal on Saturday, prior to that, Rucinsky had been sucking duckbutter through a straw. One can argue that Hossa could've replaced Ruca and Hollweg on the fourth line (roles that make more sense for each). I do agree with what you've said, though. Numbers games are good, and it give Renney flexibility in the type of lineup he wants out there each night (and the lack of injuries has helped this team immensely, thank God for that).

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01-30-2006, 09:31 AM
  #10
Anthony Mauro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
one would want Hollweg in a lineup against Philly over Hossa...having said that, Hossa did score against Philly on opening night, I believe, and since Weekes once was given a start due to the fact he beat Philly on opening night, that same logic may apply tonight.
What logic is that? That's a narrowminded way of looking at things to try to justify Hossa being in the lineup when he clearly shouldn't be over Hollweg.

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01-30-2006, 09:37 AM
  #11
Larry Melnyk
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I was adamantly against the aquisition of Hossa the second I found out about the dang deal exactly for the inconsistencies, occasional apathy and lack of production that he has displayed as normal....And there is no bigger backer or fan of Ryan Hollweg and the game he plays then I....And I would play Hollweg every game over Hossa....BUT...Neither Hollweg or Hossa has played bad or made mistakes recently...In fact, both have done their job and both have played decent as part of the two versions of the HMO line...I can see Renney interchanging them for the opponent...If that's the strategy, Hollweg should play against the Flyers while Hossa against the Penns was fine...This will keep both ready in case of injuries or trades.....

However, there is still that gnawing feeling that Renney wants to play skill at all cost and I'll end up being pissed at 7;00 tonight when Hossa is in against the Flys and not Hollweg....We'll see..

As for Fletch's point (kiiding, I know) about the logic of playing Hossa against the Flys because of his goal opening night, Hollweg also got a point that night and was instrumental in the win..As well as kicking Eager's arse (OK, split decision) the last time they played

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01-30-2006, 09:37 AM
  #12
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Hossa for Barnaby.

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01-30-2006, 09:41 AM
  #13
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It's not my logic, Balej...

I was saying that's the type of logic Renney used recently against the Flyers when he put Weekes in net. The same may [or may not] apply tonight.

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01-30-2006, 10:09 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
BUT...Neither Hollweg or Hossa has played bad or made mistakes recently...In fact, both have done their job and both have played decent as part of the two versions of the HMO line
I think that you are wrong, Larry. The job descriptions for Hollweg and Hossa could not be more different. Hollweg has to go out, agitate, hit everything that moves and create a down-low cycle. He does this to a tee. Hossa does not have the same job description. He is strictly an offensive player. His job is to go out and pile up points. He has not done that throughout the entire year, except for a quick spurt or two. Heck, since his 2-goal explosion, he has registered exactly 1 shot on goal in 3 games. He is clearly not doing his job.
So what we have here is one player who has done everything the coaching staff has asked of him, played his heart out and has not deviated one iota from his job descritption. And then there is another player who is undeniably much more talented but has not performed his one task. And, shows absolutley no sign of ever being able to utilize his great talent over a stretch that is greater than a game or two.
One player doing everything that the coaching staff has asked for and whose absence is always know and another not doing what he is supposed to be doing at the NHL level and were it not for an announcer calling his name, we would have no idea if he was dressed or not. The way I see it only one of these two has done everything in his power to be in the everyday lineup and only one deserves it.
This could be avoided if accountability started to apply to Czechs and if playing yoots was more important than playing Neimo.

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01-30-2006, 10:25 AM
  #15
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Hossa vs Hollweg

I know Hollweg probably is a better fit on the HMO line. However, what if someone gets injured. Then Hossa has to come in and him being cold and not playing is no good. So Renney is keeping Hossa a bit warm just in case of injuries.

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01-30-2006, 10:27 AM
  #16
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
I think that you are wrong, Larry. The job descriptions for Hollweg and Hossa could not be more different. Hollweg has to go out, agitate, hit everything that moves and create a down-low cycle. He does this to a tee. Hossa does not have the same job description. He is strictly an offensive player. His job is to go out and pile up points. He has not done that throughout the entire year, except for a quick spurt or two. Heck, since his 2-goal explosion, he has registered exactly 1 shot on goal in 3 games. He is clearly not doing his job.
So what we have here is one player who has done everything the coaching staff has asked of him, played his heart out and has not deviated one iota from his job descritption. And then there is another player who is undeniably much more talented but has not performed his one task. And, shows absolutley no sign of ever being able to utilize his great talent over a stretch that is greater than a game or two.
One player doing everything that the coaching staff has asked for and whose absence is always know and another not doing what he is supposed to be doing at the NHL level and were it not for an announcer calling his name, we would have no idea if he was dressed or not. The way I see it only one of these two has done everything in his power to be in the everyday lineup and only one deserves it.
This could be avoided if accountability started to apply to Czechs and if playing yoots was more important than playing Neimo.
I find it strange being on opposite sides of this with you because you know I LOVE Hollweg and my hatred for Hossa is well documented...but how can anybody pile up points on a 4th line? And while I agree with everything you say about Hollweg and was stumping for him for well over a year, and agree there is little future in Hossa, the HMO line has worked well with both guys in the last few games and and both guys have played pretty decent...From that point of view, I can see both Hossa and Hollweg continue to get ice time eventhough my preference is Hollweg...

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01-30-2006, 11:00 AM
  #17
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I understand why so many people want hollweg over hossa, but since coming back from teh benching, he has played considerally better. He may not have been putting the puck in the net, but i thought he was working hard. The game against pitt was his first game back since getting hit with the puck, so i would atleast give him a couple more starts. If he dies down in those starts, scratch him. But even with this team puttin 7 goals in against pitt, we have had trouble producing points. Hollweg has worked hard and id like him to be in teh line up, but right now, its hossa turn.
(our organization has alot of prospects that are forth liners at best, like hollweg. Hossa's potential could be so much more. I would give him more time, since his resurgence has lit a fire under his ***.)

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01-30-2006, 11:09 AM
  #18
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraveyTrain09
I understand why so many people want hollweg over hossa, but since coming back from teh benching, he has played considerally better. He may not have been putting the puck in the net, but i thought he was working hard. The game against pitt was his first game back since getting hit with the puck, so i would atleast give him a couple more starts. If he dies down in those starts, scratch him. But even with this team puttin 7 goals in against pitt, we have had trouble producing points. Hollweg has worked hard and id like him to be in teh line up, but right now, its hossa turn.
(our organization has alot of prospects that are forth liners at best, like hollweg. Hossa's potential could be so much more. I would give him more time, since his resurgence has lit a fire under his ***.)
While I see a reason for Hossa to get some time based on the opponent, I think a "resugence" is exaggerated and no way in heck is it his "turn" over Hollweg...Honestly, although I see the reasoning Renney could have in playing Hoissa occasinally, I think if you tell Hollweg to play on the 4th line and forget about defense and hitting, you'll get just as much production as Hossa...

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01-30-2006, 11:53 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by ivrydov
Hossa for Barnaby.
Barnaby was a favorite of mine... exactly the kind of player everyone needs.

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01-30-2006, 11:57 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
but how can anybody pile up points on a 4th line? And while I agree with everything you say about Hollweg and was stumping for him for well over a year, and agree there is little future in Hossa, the HMO line has worked well with both guys in the last few games
Just 3 points on this.
1. I agree that it is hard to pile up points while on the 4th line. So if that is the case, then wouldn't the logical choice be Hollweg for all of the other things he brings that Hossa does not? Hossa has one way and one way only to be a successful NHL player, and that is to score points. If that is not being done, then shouldn't the logical choice be another player who does everything else?
2. Again, agreed that it is hard to pile up points from the 4th line. But I am not even using points as a barometer anymore. Hossa's game is so bad, that instead of points, I am down to counting shots on goal from him. That is how pathetic he is. A improvement from him is not to emerge form a game with one point, but rather one shot on goal. Last 3 games, he has all of one SOG. For a guy that is supposed to provide a dimension that Hollweg does not, how does that happen when in 3 games, you register one shot? It's not like his linemates (both of whom Hossa is infinitely more talanted than) are having the same issues.
3. Yes, the HMO line did not look horrible with Hossa on there, but let's put all of the cards on the table here. Do they look better with Hollweg or Hossa?

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01-30-2006, 12:03 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraveyTrain09
I understand why so many people want hollweg over hossa, but since coming back from teh benching, he has played considerally better.
What indicates that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraveyTrain09
He may not have been putting the puck in the net
How about just putting the puck on goal, for starters? One shot in 3 games does not indicate that he is playing better. It shows the same thing about Hossa that it has always showed. He is utterly incapable of putting it all together for more than a game or two at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraveyTrain09
]But even with this team puttin 7 goals in against pitt, we have had trouble producing points.
And how exactly does Hossa help that troubling fact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraveyTrain09
Hollweg has worked hard and id like him to be in teh line up, but right now, its hossa turn.
Why exactly is it Hossa's turn? You have one player doing his job and one player that isn't. Seems pretty black and white.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraveyTrain09
I would give him more time, since his resurgence has lit a fire under his ***.)
One shot on goal in 3 games represents a fire?

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01-30-2006, 12:11 PM
  #22
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I don't know if I have a big problem with either of them playing. I can see a logic behind both. With Hollweg we'll have a grittier lineup against the Flyers who are a typically physical team. He is hardly an antidote for Brashear though. Don't even want to think about him fighting him. With Hossa you have a more offensive line and one that plays more into the hands of Dominic Moore who does have some playmaking skills-- at least if you remember in Columbus Hossa returned to the lineup had 2 goals and that night Moore had 3 assists.

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01-30-2006, 12:15 PM
  #23
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Just 3 points on this.
......
3. Yes, the HMO line did not look horrible with Hossa on there, but let's put all of the cards on the table here. Do they look better with Hollweg or Hossa?
TB, I said in my first post in this thread that I would always play Hollweg over Hossa.. We share the same opinion of Hollweg and Hossa. It's just that Hossa hasn't been terrible in his latest shot (though not great) and I can see why Renney (not me) is playing him a little....However, I see zero logic if Hossa plays against the Flyers....

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01-30-2006, 12:31 PM
  #24
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If you cannot see Hossa's potential, you are blind. but as of right now Hollweg is more deserving of a spot. but you cant just have some one like hossa sitting on the bench all the time rotting away. I'm glad he made the olympic team. I think he will gain some confidence from there and i think some day he may become consistant. theres no point in giving up on him. Hes looks like hes starting to try now. Remember early in the year everyone was bashing poti and i said he would pick up his game and he actually did. Well i believe the same will happen to Hossa.

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01-30-2006, 12:34 PM
  #25
True Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones
With Hossa you have a more offensive line and one that plays more into the hands of Dominic Moore who does have some playmaking skills-- at least if you remember in Columbus Hossa returned to the lineup had 2 goals and that night Moore had 3 assists.
This is exactly what I do not comprehend. Theoretically, a lineup with Hossa SHOULD make the HMO line more offensive. But it does not. Yes, I know what happened when he returned in the Columbus game. But, more importantly, what happened after that game, in the following 3 games by Hossa? The answer is nothing. Zilch. Zippo. Nadda. 1 measely shot on goal is all that happened.
All that goes to show is that he is no different that the player who played 25 games on the second line and got zero goals and maybe an assist or two.
Sure, Moore has some playmaking skills. What good are they when your much more talented linemate gets one shot in 3 games? Keep in mind, that it IS Hossa's job to score points. But he has played so poorly that the lone barometer is how many shots on goal he gets.
It is one thing to say that a players presence on a certain line makes that line more dangerous offensively. It is quite another to insert said player and watch him accomplish exactly nothing. And let's be frank here, if he is not accompishing anything offensively, then he has absolutely no buissiness being in the lineup ahead of Hollweg.
Just another thing here. By phasing out Hollweg, Renney is erasing the presence of one of our role players. Role players who have contributed on many levels to the Rangers current record.

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