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Time for the Hossa counter to start again

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Old
02-04-2006, 09:34 PM
  #76
GothamRanger
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Hossa is a project that we can afford to have on this team. He does some things good and somethings bad, the key to his game is finding consistency and moving his legs. I want him on this team and beleive he should play some, not all games.

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02-04-2006, 10:45 PM
  #77
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Time to stop the counter. Hossa has scored and there was much rejoicing as the chest-thumpers (not all of you) come out.
He had a good game. Hossa made himself noticeable. It seemed like he was playing with confidence. This is the frustrating thing about him. If he were to maintain such a level, he could be a top line player. But he has never showed that he coud sustain it. If Prucha is hurt, he better be what some around here things he is becoming.
I am not suddenly repenting anything that I have said. We shall have to see if he can keep it going.
One thing is for sure, he has certainly earned himself a repreive for a few games of being badered about lack of production.

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Old
02-05-2006, 01:22 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by True Blue
4 games w/o a point and counting. Can someone please let me know what Hossa brings to the lineup that Hollweg does not? And do not tell me offensive talent, because talent and potential is utterly useless when you cannot do the one single thing that would justify your presence in the lineup.
I think that very simply Renney sees something you don't. Renney loves working with young players like Hossa and helping them develop their talent. He's a project no doubt, but with Prucha hurt Renney will be mixing and matching lots of different combinations and maybe even calling someone up from Hartford. Hossa will be part of that mix, and his recent play says to me he will be in the lineup most games. He's not scoring a ton, but he's getting himself in a position to get more chances. With his talent and Renney's encouragement this could lead to a lot of goals eventually. So get used to seeing Hossa Blue. Most likely he's not going any where.

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02-05-2006, 09:48 AM
  #79
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Ranger fans need to give Hossa some time and stop labeling him as a top six forward. He obviously has skills and is one of their better prospects. I remember when Ranger fans gave up quickly on Mikael samuelsson. Look at him now. Patience is very importantwith big body players. They take longer to develop. Even Bertuzzi was a late bloomer.

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02-05-2006, 09:53 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Canadude
I remember when Ranger fans gave up quickly on Mikael samuelsson.
I don't remember that. Sammy was very well liked during his stint here.

Hossa, or any young player, needs to show that he's developing. There are other prospects in the organization who are making the case to join the Rangers pretty soon, so if you've got a guy approaching his mid-twenties, you need to think about what kind of future he's got here. You can't be patient with someone "forever" at the expense of one or several players futures.

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02-05-2006, 06:28 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
I don't remember that. Sammy was very well liked during his stint here.

Hossa, or any young player, needs to show that he's developing. There are other prospects in the organization who are making the case to join the Rangers pretty soon, so if you've got a guy approaching his mid-twenties, you need to think about what kind of future he's got here. You can't be patient with someone "forever" at the expense of one or several players futures.
Pock? he's mid twenties.

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Old
02-05-2006, 06:31 PM
  #82
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Pock is 23, I believe...

going on 24. Sammy was well-liked (I liked him especially). He'd fit well onto this team. Good penalty killer, and he's learned how to score. Saw him score a nice goal off a Holmstrom pass yesterday. He's improved in that regard and still seems steady defensively.

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02-05-2006, 09:44 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadude
Ranger fans need to give Hossa some time and stop labeling him as a top six forward. He obviously has skills and is one of their better prospects. I remember when Ranger fans gave up quickly on Mikael samuelsson. Look at him now. Patience is very importantwith big body players. They take longer to develop. Even Bertuzzi was a late bloomer.
The Ranger management gave up on Samuelsson, not Ranger fans.

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02-05-2006, 09:51 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
The Ranger management gave up on Samuelsson, not Ranger fans.

yea for Kovalev Id would have gave up someone like Lundmark over Samuelsson. At least Samuelsson played a good 2 way game if he was not scoring, when lundmark did not score, he is like Poti without his offense, useless.

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02-05-2006, 09:53 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger
The Ranger management gave up on Samuelsson, not Ranger fans.
Didn't the Rangers trade Samuelsson in the Kovelav trade? They didn't give up on him they upgraded talent.

Hindsight is 20/20

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Old
02-06-2006, 12:27 PM
  #86
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besides folks, it took being dismissed from teams like the penguins and panthers AND playing in europe during the lockout for samuelsson to become a better player.

practically everybody had given up on mikael.

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Old
02-06-2006, 01:09 PM
  #87
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I'll take up the Hossa banner. This team is building a foundation despite its first place standing. We need legit power forwards. Hossa can be such a player.This is his first year with the team not his third or fourth. He desrves more time to develop and grow.The Rangers of old always traded youg prospects that didn't produce. Some players do not bring instant gratification

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02-06-2006, 01:21 PM
  #88
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Yes SoS...

but didn't he then become UFA (group VI or something) at the end of that season? I do not believe Boston traded for him (if they had, I apologize, but I remember people thinking Sather should take a flyer).

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02-06-2006, 01:57 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
I'll take up the Hossa banner. This team is building a foundation despite its first place standing. We need legit power forwards. Hossa can be such a player.This is his first year with the team not his third or fourth. He desrves more time to develop and grow.The Rangers of old always traded youg prospects that didn't produce. Some players do not bring instant gratification
And some never realize their potential, or even come close. As Melrose said:

You can't be patient with someone "forever" at the expense of one or several players futures.

This is Hossa's time to shine. The injury to Prucha leaves the door wide open for him to make a statement. Now is the time for him to either sink or swim. He can open up eyes, or he do what he has always done his entire career, show flashes and promptly disappear.
Right now, there should be no worries to him about getting pulled out of the lineup. While Prucha is out, he NEEDS to step up. If he FINALLY shows that he can put it all together, then a spot in the lineup during the playoffs and next year will be made for him. If, OTOH, he pulls one of his disappearing tricks for the next month, then he should not be allowed anywhere near the lineup as soon as Prucha returns. If he manages to net all of 1 point from now through when Prucha returns, I do not want to hear anymore about patience with him or about his wonderfull talent. If he tanks it again, it will be rather apparent that he is never going to reach his potential, or even come close to it.

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02-06-2006, 02:23 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
And some never realize their potential, or even come close. As Melrose said:

You can't be patient with someone "forever" at the expense of one or several players futures.

This is Hossa's time to shine. The injury to Prucha leaves the door wide open for him to make a statement. Now is the time for him to either sink or swim. He can open up eyes, or he do what he has always done his entire career, show flashes and promptly disappear.
Right now, there should be no worries to him about getting pulled out of the lineup. While Prucha is out, he NEEDS to step up. If he FINALLY shows that he can put it all together, then a spot in the lineup during the playoffs and next year will be made for him. If, OTOH, he pulls one of his disappearing tricks for the next month, then he should not be allowed anywhere near the lineup as soon as Prucha returns. If he manages to net all of 1 point from now through when Prucha returns, I do not want to hear anymore about patience with him or about his wonderfull talent. If he tanks it again, it will be rather apparent that he is never going to reach his potential, or even come close to it.
Fair enough.However, let him play the next fifteen games without interruption. Remember, Prucha may only miss the games this week or one or two after the break.

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02-06-2006, 03:11 PM
  #91
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15 games...

seems like a long leash for a kid who has showed up and disappeared before for this team, and for other teams. If this kid's going to be a top 6 talent, the organization has to decide where he ultimately fits. Now he's in an audition (unfortunately for him it won't be with offensively talented players, but unfortunately that's the situation). He has a chance to solidify his role. Unfortunately, and fortunately, his real competition may be Hollweg, Orr and Nienimen. In the end, Renney needs to decide what he wants out of a third/fourth liner. 15 games is a long time considering that Hollweg and Nienimen are also fighting for roles and positions on this team, and if in the end Renney wants more of a grinding type, which may, in his opinion bode better in the playoffs, then Hollweg or Nienimen may get the chance ahead of Hossa. But 15 games isn't fair to both Hollweg and Nienimen who also have shown flashes of good play (different, but not every line needs to be a scoring line).

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02-06-2006, 03:17 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
seems like a long leash for a kid who has showed up and disappeared before for this team, and for other teams. If this kid's going to be a top 6 talent, the organization has to decide where he ultimately fits. Now he's in an audition (unfortunately for him it won't be with offensively talented players, but unfortunately that's the situation). He has a chance to solidify his role. Unfortunately, and fortunately, his real competition may be Hollweg, Orr and Nienimen. In the end, Renney needs to decide what he wants out of a third/fourth liner. 15 games is a long time considering that Hollweg and Nienimen are also fighting for roles and positions on this team, and if in the end Renney wants more of a grinding type, which may, in his opinion bode better in the playoffs, then Hollweg or Nienimen may get the chance ahead of Hossa. But 15 games isn't fair to both Hollweg and Nienimen who also have shown flashes of good play (different, but not every line needs to be a scoring line).
However, I believe Hossa has much more upside than either Hollweg or Nienimen. Further, the team needs more scoring. We have third line and fourth line role players. We need big guys who can bang along the boards. Hossa plays better,imo, along the boards than the other two. I do love Hollweg.However, imo he is easier replaced than Hossa. Nienimen takes dumb penalities. I have no love for him

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02-06-2006, 03:23 PM
  #93
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I'm just so happy we finally got rid of him. LOL

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02-06-2006, 03:28 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves
I'm just so happy we finally got rid of him. LOL
Hows cement hands doing for you? Oh...he's the IR i see.

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02-06-2006, 03:35 PM
  #95
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All eyes on Hossa it looks like. Time to step it boyo

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Old
02-06-2006, 04:11 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by bathgate
However, I believe Hossa has much more upside than either Hollweg or Nienimen.
Upside only gets you so far. A player actually has to show that he is taking steps towards approaching his upside. To-date, Hossa has not shown that he is taking those steps. Flashes in the pan do not count as steps. Let's hope that something has sunk in and he is ready to fulfill his promise.

Quote:
Further, the team needs more scoring. We have third line and fourth line role players.
Two of our 5 role players are out of the lineup (Betts is injured and Hollweg has been benched). Yes, the Rangers need more scoring, but it will be up to Hossa to show that he can fill such shoes. Another disappearing act and it is time to pull the plug.

Quote:
We need big guys who can bang along the boards. Hossa plays better,imo, along the boards than the other two.
Whether or not Hossa fits into your "big guys who can band along the boards" category remains to be seen. Hossa CAN play the boards better than Hollweg or Neimo, but for the majority of the season has not. Only during these hot flashes of his, has he done anything better than the other two. Again, if he is truly taking steps forward or going through yet another hot flash will soon be apparent. The player who is taking steps forward plays the boards better. The player who disappears for the majority of the games that he is a part of, does not.

Quote:
I do love Hollweg.However, imo he is easier replaced than Hossa.
Again, a caveat needs to be added here. Only the Hossa that is taking steps towards realizing his potential is harder to replace. The one who got traded from Montreal and the one who was invisible for 25 or so games here, is not.

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02-06-2006, 04:25 PM
  #97
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I think its important to look at Hossa's upside realistically. Yes hes got most of the tools: size, speed, offensive skills.

But the situation we have with Hossa is not the same we had with Kovalev back in the day. Even if Hossa does pan out, he doesnt appear (at least to me) as a budding superstar or some sort of great offensive weapon. He certainly looks like a top 6 guy, but he rarely does anything that really impresses me. And this makes me much less willing to put up with his disappearing act.

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02-06-2006, 06:37 PM
  #98
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Agree on upside, however...

do you have a guy that needs 15 minutes to be successful and score play in an 8 minute per night role? To date, Renney has done a great job having the right guys in the right role - fourth liners, in a fourth line position. Third liners, etc. Penalty killers are penalty killers. Hossa is supposed top six talent...should he be playing 8 minutes per night with Betts and Ward, or is the team better off with a guy who may get a goal less on an 82 game schedule in that role but bring something else to the table, or do you play a Hossa out of his character/role? Nieminen, by the way, in one more game has one more point than Hossa and never has played with offensive guys in an offensive role. This team is in a playoff race and has a good chance for the playoffs and possibly doing something in the playoffs - Renney will do what he thinks gives him them the best chance to succeed. I understand the upside, but does 8-10 minutes with defensive-oriented players even help exploit that upside? I dunno.

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02-06-2006, 07:00 PM
  #99
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It's obvious Renney sees more upside to Hossa than we the fans do. Right now he'll be played more and expected to provide some offense. It's up to Hossa at this point to prove that he's more than just a flash in the pan.

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02-06-2006, 07:32 PM
  #100
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It's not that obvious...

he's seeing what he's got. The team has a few weeks to make some moves and gear up for the playoffs. It doesn't hurt much to try guys in these roles in which they get 10 minutes of ice time, as long as Jagr and Lundqvist are doing what they're doing. What would be obvious to me is if Renney played him 15-17 minutes per night and gave him PP time. That's obvious and a vote of confidence. Playing him Nieminen minutes, a player who's sat for several games this season as a healthy scratch, doesn't make anything obvious.

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