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Time for the Hossa counter to start again

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Old
02-06-2006, 11:27 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Upside only gets you so far. A player actually has to show that he is taking steps towards approaching his upside. To-date, Hossa has not shown that he is taking those steps. Flashes in the pan do not count as steps. Let's hope that something has sunk in and he is ready to fulfill his promise.



Two of our 5 role players are out of the lineup (Betts is injured and Hollweg has been benched). Yes, the Rangers need more scoring, but it will be up to Hossa to show that he can fill such shoes. Another disappearing act and it is time to pull the plug.



Whether or not Hossa fits into your "big guys who can band along the boards" category remains to be seen. Hossa CAN play the boards better than Hollweg or Neimo, but for the majority of the season has not. Only during these hot flashes of his, has he done anything better than the other two. Again, if he is truly taking steps forward or going through yet another hot flash will soon be apparent. The player who is taking steps forward plays the boards better. The player who disappears for the majority of the games that he is a part of, does not.



Again, a caveat needs to be added here. Only the Hossa that is taking steps towards realizing his potential is harder to replace. The one who got traded from Montreal and the one who was invisible for 25 or so games here, is not.
Again, I agree in general, but I don't think you're giving him enough credit for his overall play over the games since he came back. In my opinion, he's looked good in all of the games and darn good in more than just the two where he scored - banging on the boards, controlling the puck in the corner, making several beautiful passes to set up scoring chances (unfortunately muffed by his linemates), etc.

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Old
02-06-2006, 11:31 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoothepuck
It's obvious Renney sees more upside to Hossa than we the fans do. Right now he'll be played more and expected to provide some offense. It's up to Hossa at this point to prove that he's more than just a flash in the pan.

Ill trust good o'l Renney....I believe he had a biggest hand in getting Staal drafted last year and so far thats is looking pretty damn good.

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02-07-2006, 12:21 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88
Ill trust good o'l Renney....I believe he had a biggest hand in getting Staal drafted last year and so far thats is looking pretty damn good.
and lets not forget sauer...

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02-07-2006, 12:50 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Blackburn2727
and lets not forget sauer...

Did he have a big hand in him also? I remember them saying Renney(who turned into a Rangers scout during the lockout) watched Staal a lot and was extremely high on him

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02-10-2006, 02:09 AM
  #105
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Hossa revisited

I've watched a few of the recent Ranger games and it dawned on me - Hossa is not a top 6 forward! I mean he has the potential to be a top 6 forward, but right now I see a defensively responsible forward who has a good size and who uses it well on the forecheck and on cycling down low. I've especially noticed it in the Ottawa game - more than a few times Neimo-Ward-Hossa line would not let the puck out of Ottawa's zone. Granted, that D helped, but they were really cycling it. Both Ward and Hossa have large bodies and Ottawa had problems with them. Now, people can insist on assigning "roles" to players, but for a youngster like Hossa who came from a different organization, the only role that you can assign to him is to learn, work hard and don't make too crucial of mistakes. And that he has been doing lately. That's why I can't get too upset with Hossa - he is not a top 6 forward yet, as it had been proved. Something else has been proved too - Hossa is an NHL player.

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02-10-2006, 02:14 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemchinov13
I've watched a few of the recent Ranger games and it dawned on me - Hossa is not a top 6 forward! I mean he has the potential to be a top 6 forward, but right now I see a defensively responsible forward who has a good size and who uses it well on the forecheck and on cycling down low. I've especially noticed it in the Ottawa game - more than a few times Neimo-Ward-Hossa line would not let the puck out of Ottawa's zone. Granted, that D helped, but they were really cycling it. Both Ward and Hossa have large bodies and Ottawa had problems with them. Now, people can insist on assigning "roles" to players, but for a youngster like Hossa who came from a different organization, the only role that you can assign to him is to learn, work hard and don't make too crucial of mistakes. And that he has been doing lately. That's why I can't get too upset with Hossa - he is not a top 6 forward yet, as it had been proved. Something else has been proved too - Hossa is an NHL player.
great post Nem. I agree with you completely.

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02-10-2006, 02:31 AM
  #107
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great post Nem. I agree with you completely.
Thanks, man. Yeah, staying up late and smoking light uhm... medication helps you see things in a different angles.

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Old
02-10-2006, 05:39 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88
Ill trust good o'l Renney....I believe he had a biggest hand in getting Staal drafted last year and so far thats is looking pretty damn good.
I have trusted Renney's player personnel judgement far longer than I trusted his ability as a coach. Renney was the guy who wanted Betts in the deal for Simon, he raved about Prucha long before Prucha came over, he's the one who heavily scouted Staal, and, in just watching Blueshirt Inside Out draft specials, you get the sense that Renney is the guy in control. Maloney does a lot of the leg work, but, Renney seems to be the guy asling the big questions. Think about his quote about the player he said is not Ranger material and won't wear a Ranger uniform.

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02-10-2006, 07:58 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemchinov13
Something else has been proved too - Hossa is an NHL player.
Far from it. He has had these hot flashes before. Hossa's problem is that he has NEVER showed that he is capable of sustaining these mini-streaks for more than a few games at a time. And if you are stating that he is NOT a top 2-line forward, then IMO, his future is best realized on a different team. The Rangers have quite enough bottom-2 line players and future bottom-2 line prospects in the pipline. If you feel that he is a possible top 6 forward, that is one thing. If he is not, then his spot is best used by someone else.

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02-10-2006, 09:32 AM
  #110
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If Hossa isn't top six...

and there really isn't room in the top six currently for him, or even Prucha, whay would his role on this team be, especially when Betts returns, and barring any trade (and a trade won't be made to make room for him)? When Betts returns, he's this team's third line center, and the Ward is a better third line right winger than Hossa, and Prucha's a better third line left winger than Hossa. On the fourth line, you want Ortmeyer in there, if not for anything else, Moore is there, and is the team better off with a banger-type, Niemo or Hollweg, getting 5 minutes of ice time. In other words, how effective would Hossa be on a fourth line with minimal minutes? I'm not saying either Niemo or Hollweg are better than Hossa, I'm saying that they may be better limited role players than Hossa.

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02-10-2006, 10:28 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
and there really isn't room in the top six currently for him, or even Prucha, whay would his role on this team be, especially when Betts returns, and barring any trade (and a trade won't be made to make room for him)? When Betts returns, he's this team's third line center, and the Ward is a better third line right winger than Hossa, and Prucha's a better third line left winger than Hossa. On the fourth line, you want Ortmeyer in there, if not for anything else, Moore is there, and is the team better off with a banger-type, Niemo or Hollweg, getting 5 minutes of ice time. In other words, how effective would Hossa be on a fourth line with minimal minutes? I'm not saying either Niemo or Hollweg are better than Hossa, I'm saying that they may be better limited role players than Hossa.
Good points Fletch. But the bottom line is that Hossa's role right now is as a depth player who Renney hopes will elevate his game over time. The team needs his size up front to wear other teams down a bit with the cycle, and if a few goals come out of it, then sauce for the goose. Renney is loyal to you if you work hard and do what he tells you. Hossa has done that. Renney will continue to platoon and that means Hossa will subbed out for different reasons game by game. But Hossa is here at least through this season. Next year he gets to fight for a spot again....just like everyone else.

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02-10-2006, 11:00 AM
  #112
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Now while I can easily see Hossa being traded (maybe included for a D-man) because of the bevy of 3rd and 4th line forwards and the fact that he doesn't really produce on the top 2 lines, Hossa indeed has played pretty well since coming back form his benching and value-less play before then (Probably increasing his value)...For that play, he (like others) deserves to get more ice time even if it is situational (teams) when all are healthy....i think the proof will come out in the pudding in who (Hossa, Niemo, Hollweg, Orr) is really more valueable on the 3rrd and 4th lines with maybe a trade thinning out the herd a bit...My bet is Niemo wil lstart taking control...We'll see,,

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Old
02-10-2006, 11:22 AM
  #113
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I agree Pizza...

although have seen Hollweg and Nieminen often just as effective on the cycle, and both, at times, can be 'missiles', disrupting things on the forecheck. Hossa kind of glides in, turns and bumps and tries to get the puck by shielding. Both effective, but I think Hollweg and Niemo beat the defenders to the puck. I don't really mind Hossa, and agree Renney's looking for him to elevate his game. Perhaps Sather is too and a guy like Rucsinky may be on his way out, with Prucha taking that spot, Hossa the third, and Niemo/Hollweg the fourth. In the end, we're really talking about bottom six pieces and I believe there's not a material difference in the third or fourth line wing role between them (even though Hossa has the most potential and is the most talented, and that Hollweg is best-suited for the fourth line, not the third line).

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02-10-2006, 12:34 PM
  #114
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I'm pretty disappointed that I missed that Ottawa game. Hard to comment when you can't watch.

I've liked his play over the last few weeks.

Unfortunately, I've got a 4 on 4 Western Canadian Pond Hockey championship to play in tonight! So the Rags will have to go on tape. This is Leaf country though, I imagine I'll hear the score before I get the chance to see the tape.

Someone made the comment on cycling, which I've been touting for a while now. He's been tremendous in that kind of role, and the contributions on the score board may seem small, but those little confidence builders are HUGE in the mind of a player. The momentum swinging shifts, the real assists...those are the type of things that help players take themselves to another level.

Don't discount the little things, fellas.

Have a good weekend...CANADIAN SPRING BREAK!!!

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Old
02-10-2006, 04:10 PM
  #115
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ummm i'm a habs fan here we had hossa for a few years and let me tell you theres not a more streaky player then him... he surely has teh talent but NO hearth at all... he will NEVER change.

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02-10-2006, 04:19 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDamned
ummm i'm a habs fan here we had hossa for a few years and let me tell you theres not a more streaky player then him... he surely has teh talent but NO hearth at all... he will NEVER change.
He may be very streaky but he's played with a lot of heart lately. This kid shows he wants to be in the lineup and works hard.

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02-10-2006, 04:46 PM
  #117
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I know Ill be blasted for this because of all the Hollweg fanboys but I prefer Hossa to Hollweg. Nothing wrong with Hollweg at all, but I feel Hossa can bring more to the table.

He is far and away a better cycler than hitter sure, but when you have the lead and you need puck control to keep the other team without the puck -- who do you want out there? For my money Hossa should be out there.

Hollweg is a better spark plug player, but he doesnt bring anything Ortmeyer doesn't do better.

The hitting problem should be addressed on the defensive side of the puck, not in the forward area where puck possesion is the main reason our D looks so good in the first place.

Flame away.

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02-10-2006, 05:35 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken
I know Ill be blasted for this because of all the Hollweg fanboys but I prefer Hossa to Hollweg. Nothing wrong with Hollweg at all, but I feel Hossa can bring more to the table.

He is far and away a better cycler than hitter sure, but when you have the lead and you need puck control to keep the other team without the puck -- who do you want out there? For my money Hossa should be out there.

Hollweg is a better spark plug player, but he doesnt bring anything Ortmeyer doesn't do better.

The hitting problem should be addressed on the defensive side of the puck, not in the forward area where puck possesion is the main reason our D looks so good in the first place.

Flame away.
Oh, I think Hossa has his homeboys too, for some strange reason...Still, If Hossa always plays like he has had the last few weeks, you are right about him being an effective cycler and he can be an effective player on most of the lines...

The two are totally different players and provide totally different features when they are playing...WHo you want should depend on the team you are playing and what is or isn't in the line-up....I honestly think Hollweg's hitting and energy is a bit more singular (only Orts provides some of the smae) then what Hossa provides for a healthy roster, but I can see the other point of view----IF HOSSA doesn't go back to his inconsistent roots...

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02-10-2006, 07:02 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken
Nothing wrong with Hollweg at all, but I feel Hossa can bring more to the table.
Not from the bottom-2 lines he can't.
For those watching the Toronto game, that goal showed lots that I just do not like about Hossa. After taking a hit, he turned committed a such a spineless play, that Poti of the past two years would have been proud of. Instead of taking the hit, Hossa choose to giveaway the puck so that he did not have to get hit. Result? 'Leafs goal.
I know it was only one play. But if Hossa gets intimidated that quickly, then he has no place on the top 2 lines.

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02-10-2006, 09:51 PM
  #120
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True Blue's venom and crusade against Marcel Hossa aside.....

Trying to put Hossa into a top six position right now is like trying trying to put Daly into Bettman's spot. Not going to happen........ it's occupied.

Once we stop trying to make Hossa a Sykora *today* we should realize that he can and will develop. Have Ranger fans not learned a thing about ostracizing a young player? How many games has Hossa played in NY? Hossa has been easily a third line player and has shown that he can move up.

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02-10-2006, 10:30 PM
  #121
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Good game from Hossa tonight.

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02-10-2006, 10:38 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
Good game from Hossa tonight.
To each his own I guess...he made the wrong play on the Leaf's 1st goal and really didn't do much of anything the entire night......I thought he had been playing well, can't say tonight was one of his better efforts...

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02-10-2006, 10:45 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk
To each his own I guess...he made the wrong play on the Leaf's 1st goal and really didn't do much of anything the entire night......I thought he had been playing well, can't say tonight was one of his better efforts...
I was at the game and aside from his turnover that led to the goal and a few good shifts he had where he was strong on the puck, I didnt notice him much.

My opinion on Hossa:
1) with the wingers we have, even with Prucha out of the lineup, its hard for him to get minutes with the offensive players he needs to be 'effective'
2) i think his skills are overrated. he got the tools, but hes pretty clumsy with the puck for someone whos suppose to be a scorer.

With Jagr, Straka, Sykora, Ruchinsky and when he comes back, Prucha, I see no no need for this guy on the team, regardless of his "improved" play.

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Old
02-10-2006, 11:02 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Far from it.
How is he "far from" an NHL player? Granted, he shouldn't be in the lineup when Betts and Prucha return, but he is defintly a bottom 6 foward in this league, on another team.

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02-10-2006, 11:04 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather
How is he "far from" an NHL player? Granted, he shouldn't be in the lineup when Betts and Prucha return, but he is defintly a bottom 6 foward in this league, on another team.
Bottom 6 forwards aren't scorers who can't score...which is what he is

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