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Old
01-02-2017, 09:23 PM
  #1
vertigo1061
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2017 Trade Deadline

It's less than 2 months away (Feb 28).

I've spent some time the last few days thinking about this team and I have a few thoughts.

-It's dangerous to mess with good chemistry, but it'd be silly not to look critically at this roster and what could be improved upon it for the playoffs.

-I don't think anybody wants to sell any important pieces for a playoff run this year considering the youth.

With that in mind. I see the weaknesses of this current roster being 2 main things.

1) Faceoffs

2) 6/7 Defenseman

-------------

1) We're not a great faceoff team and I feel like in the playoffs that's a killer. It's not the be-all end-all for possession, but it definitely makes life a lot easier when you don't have to work to get the puck back all the time.

Currently, Dubinsky is our best f/o guy at 51.5% in all situations (49th in the league). Wennberg is 45.3% (86th), and Karlsson is 44.3% (90th). Sedlak is at 48% with less f/o's than the other 3. Jenner actually has a pretty darn good 57.5%, but he's only taken 73 f/o's all year.

I've done a little research and the guy I think would be worth looking at for CBJ is Vernon Fiddler with NJD. The Devils aren't likely going to make the playoffs this year and Fiddler is on a 1 yr deal $1.25, which is the ideal situation. Not a big money contract and he'd be a UFA so you aren't looking at parting with much at all.

So why Fiddler? 3 reasons. First, he's a fantastic faceoff guy. He's sitting at 54.9% (14th in the league). Second, he's got playoff experience. I love Sedlak, but in the playoffs I'm not sure he's the guy I want on the ice against a Crosby or Backstrom when you're on the road and can't get last change. Third, he's played with Hartnell for 2 seasons in Nashville so there's at least some resemblance of familiarity.

Now, I'm not saying stop playing Sedlak, but I think it's something to consider in depth. I'd like to have a guy who can step in if we need him and I think Fiddler would be the perfect fit for that. Giving us some flexibility there.

2) 6/7 Defensemen...I like our top 6, but I'm not comfortable with our 7th and I do have my concerns about Nutivaara in a playoff scenario. We're already not playing him late in games to protect leads. That's not ideal and in the playoffs it's a good way to wear out your guys (Chicago lol).

I'd want to look at picking somebody up for that 6/7 spot who has experience and is a UFA.

Doing a little research, here's a short list of guys I think fit the bill.

-Johnny Oduya. He's the most expensive (3.75) and a lot will depend on how Dallas does the next two months, but they are currently out of a playoff spot. If they really struggle, I wouldn't be surprised to see them sell the pending UFA. Not the ideal cost for CBJ, but well within our cap and it's hard to argue against his experience in the playoffs.

-The name I'm most interested in...Brendan Smith from Detroit. (3.25 mil) The Wings aren't going to make the playoffs and they need to make some changes. He was rumored to be traded last year and I think it's almost a certainty he's moved this year. To me, getting Smith for the last part of the year/playoffs would make the D corps of CBJ one of the best in the league and truly frightening to play against. Play him with Murray and you can just roll your D pairings however you see fit imho.

-Other names include Michalek (PHO), Kindl (FLO), Quincey (NJD). Obviously getting a guy like Shattenkirk would be a game changer, but I just don't see that being viable giving the cost of acquiring him.

Okay, I've spent enough time in dreamland Thoughts?

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01-02-2017, 09:28 PM
  #2
CBJWennberg10
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I like your ideas. But I'm not sure there is room on the roster for a guy like Fiddler. So we trade for him...Who do you take out of the lineup? Obviously wouldn't be Gagner. Wouldn't be Hartnell. Which only leaves Sedlak and he's playing very well for his roll. Plus our team is built around speed, and Fiddler isn't exactly speed. But then again neither is Hartnell, so who knows.

Regarding D, the only one who fits our mold from your list would be Smith. And I don't think he's that great. I trust Nutivaraa.

I think adding a faceoff guy would be a good add.

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01-02-2017, 09:35 PM
  #3
WannabeFinn
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I like the idea of trading for Hanzal. We'd probably be outbid by somebody who wanted Arizona to retain 50%, but adding him to our lineup would not only solve the faceoffs issue but also makes our center depth very deep. If Wennberg or Dubinsky went down with an injury, do you really think we'd go anywhere in the playoffs with Karlsson playing 2C and Sedlak playing 3C?

Saad-Wennberg-Foligno
Jenner-Dubinsky-Atkinson
Hartnell-Hanzal-Anderson
Calvert-Karlsson-Gagner

That's a beautiful group of forwards right there.

Oh, and because he's a pending UFA we don't have to protect him in the expansion draft yet we could still re-sign him after the fact.


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01-03-2017, 12:54 AM
  #4
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As much as I love big trades, I don't think Jarmo does anything big until after the expansion draft. It's this team that's gotten them this far so far so I think he lets this team control their fate in the playoffs. Plus it gives the young guys much needed playoff experience. If they win the Cup great, if not, Jarmo will know what was needed to win and after Vegas picks a player, he will know what holes to fill. At most I can see him trading for a veteran center like Jay McClement. He can be the 13th forward and if Sedlak struggles he can come in. Although not sure if he is any good anymore(is he another Gregory Campbell?) and he used to be a good faceoff man but not this year. Also maybe another veteran defensemen but would they prefer Prout/Harrington to step in if Nutivaara struggles? Would anyone want Seidenberg from the Islanders? Might cost a 2nd round pick but he's having a nice season and I think he would replace Nutivaara, rather then him being the extra defensemen waiting for someone to struggle.

*Would you guys just rather sign M.A. Bergeron to an NHL deal then trade for a defensemen?


Also, last I heard the asking price for Hanzal was a lot. Not sure if Jarmo is willing to pay the asking price for a UFA.

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01-03-2017, 01:34 AM
  #5
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I don't agree at all about trading for a face off guy at all. Our forward group is set and we have guys on the current team who can slide to C if injuries happen and have guys to fill in those wing spits. Trading for anything F related in my opinion would be a huge mistake. Every line has great chemistry and this team has a legit comradery and want to play for and.with each other so moving one of them for a different guy hurts that and even bringing in a guy and sending Sedlak down hurts not only chemistry but you would think confidence for Sedlak who fought so hard last year to get a new contract and played his way onto this team to beat out Campbell and then you are succeeding and doing everything right just to be removed on the home stretch for a guy who wasn't there with you through the whole fight just to have a.better faceoff percentage... that would be really demoralizing and in don't think it would go over well with Torts or the guys in the room so I honestly doubt that happens.

The defender on the other hand would be for the 7th spot and not a regular player only there for days off and injuries and can be there if Nutivaara can't handle the playoffs. Honestly I'd rather have Prout in there right now because of some of Nutivaaras mistakes that are unacceptable leading directly to goals. So if we get a UFA D that costs like a 4th or later or a B prospect like Heatherington or Bittner.

Basically I'm not willing to give up much... our 2nd this year or next (hopefully this year's) goes to Vancouver so that already sucks and Jarmo is the master of late round picks so I'm slowly becoming a guy who doesn't even want to trade a 7th the way he is picking diamonds in the rough. So it comes down to prospects but Bjorkstrand, Milano, Carlsson, Abramov, PLD, and Gavrikov so who do we really have to trade?

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01-03-2017, 07:49 AM
  #6
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Right now don't touch a thing.

But we have no idea what the landscape will look like in Mid-February. If we're on top and playing well maybe it's only depth we go after. But if we're being run down, and teams behind us are making moves there will be pressure for us to make moves. We have no idea who will be hurt, slumping, worn out (some of young players).

But for now if we can just look for veteran depth (13th forward, 7th/8th dman) that will be a sign of good things.

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01-03-2017, 08:20 AM
  #7
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Don't. Touch it. Don't.

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01-03-2017, 08:38 AM
  #8
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There isn't a single thing I would do. Any big trade would require players I wouldn't trade. Any small trade wouldn't help us any.

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01-03-2017, 08:47 AM
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Yep, keep it rolling for now and we'll see if we have to plug any holes due to injury come late February.

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01-03-2017, 09:07 AM
  #10
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I'd look to add a veteran defenseman, but I always say that (although usually in the offseason). But I'd take into consideration the fact that the current depth guys have NHL experience (Prout, Kukan, Harrington) and whether or not the guys in the room would prefer to do battle with them in the event of an injury as opposed to a veteran from outside the organization.

It really depends on health and what you want to do if there is an injury or two. In the same way as the D above, do you trust Bjorkstrand, Hannikainen, Milano and/or Zaar as long-term solutions in the playoffs if someone gets hurt?

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01-03-2017, 09:30 AM
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Why do we need one though? You always have to overpay and our defensive depth is just fine. I'm not wasting assets on a player who likely won't be an upgrade. We need to keep our assets and keep building.

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01-03-2017, 09:37 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vertigo1061 View Post
2) 6/7 Defensemen...I like our top 6, but I'm not comfortable with our 7th and I do have my concerns about Nutivaara in a playoff scenario.
Saad and Nutivaara are the only players on this roster who have come out of professional league's play-offs as champions.

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01-03-2017, 09:37 AM
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Adding a right-handed, draw winning center ala Mark Letestu is ideal. Especially for the PK in the playoffs. We haven't faced any injuries up front yet. Who is our 13th forward? And do we rely on them in the NHL playoffs? Can they play in any situation?

Adding them, yes. Is it necessary they play? No.


Suppose two of our top 12 are down. Who plays for us in the playoffs? If we are counting on Bjorstrand and Milano to come into the deep waters of a playoff series and play a bottom six role, we will be sorely, sorely disappointed.


There's no way we aren't adding multiple NHL players given where we are.

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01-03-2017, 09:45 AM
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Nordique
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Don't. Touch it. Don't.
This.

I understand the process of looking up and down the roster and thinking what piece or pieces are missing to get to the next level. But you don't change the ingredients when you are #1 in the league and healthy.

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01-03-2017, 09:52 AM
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CBJSlash
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when you are #1 in the league and healthy.
And things will stay this way?...

I understand not trading a roster player, but saying between now and the deadline we won't add something isn't what the best teams in the league do every year.


Take down three of our forwards and what do we have? As an example, if Wennberg, Werenski or Atkinson go down for an extended time, watch our PP look much much worse. These three guys are why we are getting in and setting it up better than any point in our history (Foligno or Gagner could be replaced by Hartnell, Saad or Jenner). The interplay between Werenski and Wennberg stretches out the play in a unique way. You do not get that interplay with Jones and Dubinsky.

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01-03-2017, 09:55 AM
  #16
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This.

I understand the process of looking up and down the roster and thinking what piece or pieces are missing to get to the next level. But you don't change the ingredients when you are #1 in the league and healthy.
What if in seven weeks you aren't either one or both of those things?

I believe there are different potential answers to the questions Slash proposes (I sorta did in my post above, too). Who's hurt, who takes their place and what assets are required to be surrendered in trade should you investigate?

I'm comfortable with the answers coming from our organizational depth if that's how the FO opts to go. Here's a mind-set I'm not comfortable with - that is, the resumption that the team should be satisfied with whatever playoff prformance it gets. I'm not saying this because of the win streak or the re4cord, I'm saying it because nothing is guaranteed. If you're in, you better be trying to win the damn thing. Remember how some folks were OK with a loss to the Pens because it was a fine first step in what would surely become annual playoff appearances?

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01-03-2017, 10:10 AM
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Adding a right-handed, draw winning center ala Mark Letestu is ideal. Especially for the PK in the playoffs. We haven't faced any injuries up front yet. Who is our 13th forward? And do we rely on them in the NHL playoffs? Can they play in any situation?

Adding them, yes. Is it necessary they play? No.


Suppose two of our top 12 are down. Who plays for us in the playoffs? If we are counting on Bjorstrand and Milano to come into the deep waters of a playoff series and play a bottom six role, we will be sorely, sorely disappointed.


There's no way we aren't adding multiple NHL players given where we are.
That is what bad teams, IMO, do. You don't give away future assets hoping someone you don't have is better than someone you do. I hate being a buyer in trades, because you almost always overpay. We are young. Very young. Now is not the time to "go for it".

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01-03-2017, 10:12 AM
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And things will stay this way?...

I understand not trading a roster player, but saying between now and the deadline we won't add something isn't what the best teams in the league do every year.


Take down three of our forwards and what do we have? As an example, if Wennberg, Werenski or Atkinson go down for an extended time, watch our PP look much much worse. These three guys are why we are getting in and setting it up better than any point in our history (Foligno or Gagner could be replaced by Hartnell, Saad or Jenner). The interplay between Werenski and Wennberg stretches out the play in a unique way. You do not get that interplay with Jones and Dubinsky.
We are not getting anyone who can replace them though. That is the problem. I just don't think there is anyone who will be available, who we can afford, who is better than the guys we already have.

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01-03-2017, 10:16 AM
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We are not getting anyone who can replace them though. That is the problem. I just don't think there is anyone who will be available, who we can afford, who is better than the guys we already have.
Sounds like we might finally have a boring trade deadline for the right reasons.

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01-03-2017, 10:23 AM
  #20
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Let's all remember the fundamentals of trading.

You GIVE SOMETHING UP to get something in return.

So are you prepared to shake up the roster, move prospects, or give away draft picks, to acquire some spare tires because we might get a couple flats down the road and we don't trust the spare tires we have now?

Stop playing the "what if game". Selling our future to bring in a face off guy or a veteran dman, both of which would probably be rentals, and would likely sit under this coach who has the locker room right where he wants it.

The addition of a 36 year old journeyman center isn't going to win this team a cup. We do it with the guys we have in the room and in the system, or we don't. You don't empty your bank account to pay extra premium and raise your insurance limits because you fear what could happen driving to work. You accept that there are risks in the world, and the contingencies you have in place probably aren't going to be 100% as effective.

Lastly, why would anyone tinker with the chemistry that led us to an undefeated month of December?

We aren't winning with super star talent, we are winning with collective effort, and confidence in the guys in the room....chemistry.

As I said above, I understand the conversation and thought process...but my input is, no, don't mess with it.

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01-03-2017, 10:28 AM
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So y'all are uncomfortable with trading a 3rd, 4th or 5th round pick for an NHL player that can help provide depth for us in the playoffs?... okay...

Jarmo won't be.


Don't get my point twisted. Trades don't mean we are parting with top prospects or prime picks. I'm not necessarily opposed to this either if the target makes sense.

I'm perfectly comfortable elevating Hartnell, Gagner or Calvert into the top 6 if necessary. But you need an NHL player to play the minutes they are leaving. If Wennberg, Dubinsky or Karlsson get injured we have a much, much bigger issue.



I feel like my common sense is not so common.


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01-03-2017, 10:29 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
That is what bad teams, IMO, do. You don't give away future assets hoping someone you don't have is better than someone you do. I hate being a buyer in trades, because you almost always overpay. We are young. Very young. Now is not the time to "go for it".
I would challenge you to find one cup winning team that made 0 personnel acquisitions between New Years and the Trade Deadline.


"I hate being a buyer in trades" = "I hate having a good team" ?? No?


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01-03-2017, 10:39 AM
  #23
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So y'all are uncomfortable with trading a 3rd, 4th or 5th round pick for an NHL player that can help provide depth for us in the playoffs?... okay...

Jarmo won't be.


Don't get my point twisted. Trades don't mean we are parting with top prospects or prime picks. I'm not necessarily opposed to this either if the target makes sense.

I'm perfectly comfortable elevating Hartnell, Gagner or Calvert into the top 6 if necessary. But you need an NHL player to play the minutes they are leaving. If Wennberg, Dubinsky or Karlsson get injured we have a much, much bigger issue.



I feel like my common sense is not so common.
Who is this player we can get for a 3rd, 4th, or 5th round pick who is better than the guys we have? There aren't any. I'd rather play Milano, Bjorkstrand, Kukan, etc.... than give up an asset for someone who isn't that good.

This is why you build up depth. So you don't have to overpay in assets (players, picks, and/or money) to get a player you need.

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01-03-2017, 10:41 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
I would challenge you to find one cup winning team that made 0 personnel acquisitions between New Years and the Trade Deadline.


"I hate being a buyer in trades" = "I hate having a good team" ?? No?
Like I said, when we are at a point where we are a LEGIT cup team, then we can make a move if we need to. We are not there right now. Also, IMO, we have a more complete team than most do at this point. Most teams don't have the depth we do. What we lack are the ELITE players that cup winning teams have. So, we shouldn't do anything, unless we can trade for an ELITE, young player.

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01-03-2017, 10:42 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Who is this player we can get for a 3rd, 4th, or 5th round pick who is better than the guys we have? There aren't any. I'd rather play Milano, Bjorkstrand, Kukan, etc.... than give up an asset for someone who isn't that good.

This is why you build up depth. So you don't have to overpay in assets (players, picks, and/or money) to get a player you need.
I will keep using Mark Letestu as the proxy for trade targets. A Mark Letestu wouldn't cost more than a 3rd round pick. He'd be better in the playoffs than Milano, Bjorkstrand and any other Monster.


Not sure why I have to make this argument.

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