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Old
01-03-2017, 10:45 AM
  #26
RDriesenUD
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
I will keep using Mark Letestu as the proxy for trade targets. A Mark Letestu wouldn't cost more than a 3rd round pick. He'd be better in the playoffs than Milano, Bjorkstrand and any other Monster.


Not sure why I have to make this argument.
Because not everyone agrees with you.

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Old
01-03-2017, 10:45 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Like I said, when we are at a point where we are a LEGIT cup team, then we can make a move if we need to. We are not there right now. Also, IMO, we have a more complete team than most do at this point. Most teams don't have the depth we do. What we lack are the ELITE players that cup winning teams have. So, we shouldn't do anything, unless we can trade for an ELITE, young player.
If we end in the top 5 of the NHL standings at the end of the year, I hate to break it to you, but we ARE LEGIT cup contenders.

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Old
01-03-2017, 10:46 AM
  #28
Nordique
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
So y'all are uncomfortable with trading a 3rd, 4th or 5th round pick for an NHL player that can help provide depth for us in the playoffs?... okay...

Jarmo won't be.


Don't get my point twisted. Trades don't mean we are parting with top prospects or prime picks. I'm not necessarily opposed to this either if the target makes sense.

I'm perfectly comfortable elevating Hartnell, Gagner or Calvert into the top 6 if necessary. But you need an NHL player to play the minutes they are leaving. If Wennberg, Dubinsky or Karlsson get injured we have a much, much bigger issue.



I feel like my common sense is not so common.

3rd round is a stretch, to get a usable piece in return, but I'll give on that because PITT pulled that off in the Schultz deal last year, which has worked out well....but that was also EDM

But for every deal like that, I see several Kris Russels (DAL gave up a 1st/2nd conditional pick to rent him for their "cup run" that never materialized). Season ends, no cup, Russell the UFA signs with EDM. High draft pick thrown away to prepare for something that wasn't meant to be.

I hate the deadline, and I hate shopping for Christmas in mid December because the prices go up.

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Old
01-03-2017, 10:50 AM
  #29
CBJSlash
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Three players have gotten hurt, Dubinsky, Karlsson and Jenner.

Saad - Wennberg - Foligno
Hartnell - Gagner - Atkinson
Calvert - Sedlak - Anderson
Milano - Broadhurst - Bjorkstrand

Playoff worthy?
???

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Old
01-03-2017, 11:01 AM
  #30
Nordique
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
Three players have gotten hurt, Dubinsky, Karlsson and Jenner.

Saad - Wennberg - Foligno
Hartnell - Gagner - Atkinson
Calvert - Sedlak - Anderson
Milano - Broadhurst - Bjorkstrand

Playoff worthy?
???
You have to accept that a string of injuries like that, all at the same time, would mean forget a cup run. That is the reality every team lives with.

Here are a couple more scenarios that = no cup run.

Bob gets hurt...has that ever happened?

Any 2 of Jones/JJ/Savard/Werenski get hurt.

We have to live with those risks, because the cost of mitigating them is unbearable and unsustainable.

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Old
01-03-2017, 11:36 AM
  #31
RDriesenUD
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
Three players have gotten hurt, Dubinsky, Karlsson and Jenner.

Saad - Wennberg - Foligno
Hartnell - Gagner - Atkinson
Calvert - Sedlak - Anderson
Milano - Broadhurst - Bjorkstrand

Playoff worthy?
???
And who are you getting to replace all 3 players? If we lose 3 players like that, it doesn't matter who we trade for.

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Old
01-03-2017, 11:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
I'd look to add a veteran defenseman, but I always say that (although usually in the offseason). But I'd take into consideration the fact that the current depth guys have NHL experience (Prout, Kukan, Harrington) and whether or not the guys in the room would prefer to do battle with them in the event of an injury as opposed to a veteran from outside the organization.

It really depends on health and what you want to do if there is an injury or two. In the same way as the D above, do you trust Bjorkstrand, Hannikainen, Milano and/or Zaar as long-term solutions in the playoffs if someone gets hurt?
Yep. My only concern in that regard is at C - I think our best "depth callup" guy is already on the roster.

* * *
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Who is this player we can get for a 3rd, 4th, or 5th round pick who is better than the guys we have? There aren't any. I'd rather play Milano, Bjorkstrand, Kukan, etc.... than give up an asset for someone who isn't that good.
Concur. I have no worries on the wings or on the blueline.

Center, though? Less sure. Not so much that I'm pushing hard to make a deal, but I wouldn't rule one out either. No need to swing for the fences for someone like RNH or Duchene, but a Letestu type (which Slash seems to be advocating for) would be nice.

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Old
01-03-2017, 11:42 AM
  #33
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I get that. I just don't think the return is worth giving up what it would take. We have some guys we could move to center if we had to. I just look at the guys we have drafted recently with picks in the 3rd round and later and I would rather have those picks than a player for a couple of months.

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Old
01-03-2017, 11:43 AM
  #34
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The OP started a Trade Deadline Thread. I don't think he was suggesting we make nay trades right now. At the deadline if we can add the two positions he suggested at a reasonable price we would be silly not to do so.

Do you really want Prout as the 7th D for the SC or basically no one as an experienced back up C. A couple of draft picks or a reach prospect won't break the bank and we will be better positioned for a deep payoff run.

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Old
01-03-2017, 11:58 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
You have to accept that a string of injuries like that, all at the same time, would mean forget a cup run. That is the reality every team lives with.

Here are a couple more scenarios that = no cup run.

Bob gets hurt...has that ever happened?

Any 2 of Jones/JJ/Savard/Werenski get hurt.

We have to live with those risks, because the cost of mitigating them is unbearable and unsustainable.
I'm not even saying these three are hypothetical out for a long time. I'm talking about a game or two.

Walking into a playoff game with a roster like that because you wanted to hold onto 3rd and 4th round picks is indefensible. I honestly am not worried because I know we won't do this. I know we will acquire players. So I suppose its up to those that disagree to come to terms with that and understand we will try to win the Cup this year (without sacrificing too much of our future yadda yadda).

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Old
01-03-2017, 12:08 PM
  #36
Nordique
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
I'm not even saying these three are hypothetical out for a long time. I'm talking about a game or two.

Walking into a playoff game with a roster like that because you wanted to hold onto 3rd and 4th round picks is indefensible. I honestly am not worried because I know we won't do this. I know we will acquire players. So I suppose its up to those that disagree to come to terms with that and understand we will try to win the Cup this year (without sacrificing too much of our future yadda yadda).
If I were allowed a chair at the table (I can dream for a moment), my input would be:

1. Don't touch the on ice 20 players (including Mac)
2. Don't give up good prospects (where you draw that line is debatable)
3. Don't move 1st or 2nd round picks

There are 2 things that are sacred to me as a fan with this team:

The Chemistry in the Room
The Promise of the Future

If there are reserve pieces that can otherwise be acquired, then I'm fine with that.

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Old
01-03-2017, 12:22 PM
  #37
RDriesenUD
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
I'm not even saying these three are hypothetical out for a long time. I'm talking about a game or two.

Walking into a playoff game with a roster like that because you wanted to hold onto 3rd and 4th round picks is indefensible. I honestly am not worried because I know we won't do this. I know we will acquire players. So I suppose its up to those that disagree to come to terms with that and understand we will try to win the Cup this year (without sacrificing too much of our future yadda yadda).
That makes it an even bigger no. There is no way I would trade an asset just so we have a more experienced player to fill in for a game or two.

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01-03-2017, 12:33 PM
  #38
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No idea what it would take, but a 3rd or 4th for a versatile player like Letestu (to cover both C and W depth needs), would be ok in my book. Beyond that, no moves from my seat in the peanut gallery.

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Old
01-03-2017, 02:35 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
And things will stay this way?...

I understand not trading a roster player, but saying between now and the deadline we won't add something isn't what the best teams in the league do every year.


Take down three of our forwards and what do we have? As an example, if Wennberg, Werenski or Atkinson go down for an extended time, watch our PP look much much worse. These three guys are why we are getting in and setting it up better than any point in our history (Foligno or Gagner could be replaced by Hartnell, Saad or Jenner). The interplay between Werenski and Wennberg stretches out the play in a unique way. You do not get that interplay with Jones and Dubinsky.
NO

https://mobile.twitter.com/ml_han/st...50450824265728

Also, Foligno has the top PP scoring rate in the league over the last 3 years. Respect for Foligno is the reason anyone else gets space out there.

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Old
01-03-2017, 02:41 PM
  #40
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I feel confident in the young depth. We can't really upgrade anything on the cheap. Fiddler wouldn't play above Sedlak. If we can get a good deal on Hanzal, I'd get excited about that. I don't know his game that well but he might be a better top shutdown center than Dubinsky.

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Old
01-03-2017, 03:12 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
If we end in the top 5 of the NHL standings at the end of the year, I hate to break it to you, but we ARE LEGIT cup contenders.
This team has still never won a playoff round. Until that happens, they still have much to prove. Every time I have seen a team go on a magical run, they get stopped short. Florida in the late 90's - Carolina had to make a run against the Red Wings until they came back against Edmonton.

Winning the Stanley Cup is a process. If this turns into a Cup Championship team this year, then I will be truly shocked and it will be Buster Douglas heroic. It would probably be Miracle on Ice 2.

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Old
01-03-2017, 03:25 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by CBJSlash View Post
I will keep using Mark Letestu as the proxy for trade targets. A Mark Letestu wouldn't cost more than a 3rd round pick. He'd be better in the playoffs than Milano, Bjorkstrand and any other Monster.
He's worth more than a 3rd at the deadline, easily. He's on pace for 16 goals and 40 points.

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Old
01-03-2017, 04:04 PM
  #43
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I wouldn't really invest heavily to rentals. We are good now, but we still have to remember how bad we have been. I want this team to have a second consistent regular season run and solidify itself as a playoff team and at the least borderline contender.

I enjoy the success now, don't get me wrong, but I still have doubts if we have what it takes to win the Cup. I would be really happy if we won a playoff round.

So, I don't really see it as an absolute necessity that we have to get something this year. Depth additions at maximum without overpaying - I don't want to lose any high caliber prospects for rental players. We also have to take the expansion draft in to the process - we will lose something and that loss must be fixed.

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Old
01-03-2017, 04:08 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Tulipunaruusu View Post
Saad and Nutivaara are the only players on this roster who have come out of professional league's play-offs as champions.
LOL......Uh wut?

The American Hockey League (AHL) is a 30-team professional ice hockey league based in the United States and Canada that serves as the primary developmental league for the National Hockey League (NHL).

Zach Werenski, Josh Anderson and Lucas Sedlak have all won championships in a professional league.

Who knows where this team is going to be at the trade deadline. I'd like to see some depth added at center and defense (back up goalie but let's not go there ) but I would not give up any valuable assets so this is probably moot. Changing the structure after all this team has built together probably isn't a great idea. But depth in case of injury would be good if it's proven they are better than the 13th forward or 7th defensemen that are already on the roster.

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01-03-2017, 04:25 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Byrral View Post
The American Hockey League (AHL) is a 30-team professional ice hockey league based in the United States and Canada that serves as the primary developmental league for the National Hockey League (NHL).
You said it quite well. It is a developmental league. If someone is too good to play in the American hockey league they do not play in the AHL play-offs, generally. It is also a completely different task to be part of a professional team all year long than be a part of an everchanging AHL squad. In the more advanced ball sport cultures these AHL kind of reserve teams have been found out to be ineffective in player development.

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01-03-2017, 04:38 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Tulipunaruusu View Post
You said it quite well. It is a developmental league. If someone is too good to play in the American hockey league they do not play in the AHL play-offs, generally. It is also a completely different task to be part of a professional team all year long than be a part of an everchanging AHL squad. In the more advanced ball sport cultures these AHL kind of reserve teams have been found out to be ineffective in player development.
Not the thread to argue a point regarding any feeder leagues to the best league in the world (NHL) or even a lesser league (KHL). You said professional and I countered that the AHL is a professional hockey league. Whatever point you are trying to make, your agenda regarding Nutivaara is beyond amusing.

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Old
01-03-2017, 04:38 PM
  #47
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It's not that I'm 100% against a trade. I just don't think there are any that will make us enough better to justify the cost.

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Old
01-03-2017, 05:00 PM
  #48
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Capfriendly.com has the CBJ at $12.5 million in cap space (including LTIR) at the deadline. It's probably pretty hard for a GM to have that much room and not do anything, so I'd expect Jarmo to get someone.

Maybe Jeff Carter would be amenable to coming back if LA is out of it by then

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01-03-2017, 05:38 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Capfriendly.com has the CBJ at $12.5 million in cap space (including LTIR) at the deadline. It's probably pretty hard for a GM to have that much room and not do anything, so I'd expect Jarmo to get someone.

Maybe Jeff Carter would be amenable to coming back if LA is out of it by then
Who's Jeff Carter?

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Old
01-03-2017, 06:25 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Capfriendly.com has the CBJ at $12.5 million in cap space (including LTIR) at the deadline. It's probably pretty hard for a GM to have that much room and not do anything, so I'd expect Jarmo to get someone.

Maybe Jeff Carter would be amenable to coming back if LA is out of it by then
*perks up*

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