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Old
03-04-2017, 12:12 PM
  #101
waltdetroit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
My question for people who watch the Griffins regularly: are Tangradi and Street regularly the best looking forwards and not Svechnikov/Frk/Bertuzzi?
For me, this is comparing apples to oranges

Tangradi (28 yrs) and Street (30 yrs) have much more experience, even seeing brief time in the NHL. They are both strong and savvy - play very well at the AHL level when not injured.

Svechnikov (20 yrs), Frk (23 yrs), and Bertuzzi (22 yrs) are younger getting experience. Svech has the most talent and will most likely exceed the accomplishments of T & S. Bertuzzi is improving his regular season play - he is a PO warrior so far. Frk's best asset is his shot.

So for a game tonight, T & S may be the best picks, but not necessarily a year down the road.

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03-04-2017, 01:11 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
My question for people who watch the Griffins regularly: are Tangradi and Street regularly the best looking forwards and not Svechnikov/Frk/Bertuzzi?

Eric Tangradi had a broken finger towards the start of the season and he did not get off to a good start. Eric is starting to come on strong especially in the past 2 weeks. Getting more physical along the boards, creating havoc in front of the net and he is starting to bury his chances. With Callahan called up to Detroit, Eric has moved up to the #1 PP unit with his net front presence and he just missed out on being AHL player of the week last week. Points are starting to pile up for him.

Ben Street was injured at the start of the season, so it took him a bit to get started, but Ben has been consistently getting the goals and assists since then. He plays one of the points on the 5 forward PP unit and he has a good shot from there and he plays on the PK unit as well. Skates well and not afraid to get in the corners to dig pucks out. Pretty good forechecker as well. Good pick up for the Griffins.

Tyler Bertuzzi have had a roller coaster season here. Started out slow, then he got hot, then got called up to Detroit, then he got hurt and was sent back down, then things did not go well here, then he got bronchitis and set him back, and now he is back to form. Getting close to playoff time here and Tyler is getting warmed up to it. He is starting to bury his chances on net and he is getting into the greasy areas again and he is disturbing the opponent d-man. Not afraid to play a physical game and he gets into the heads of opponents as well.

Martin Frk is our PP trigger man here in GR. He leads our team in goals, PP goals, shots, but he is in the top 3 in PIM for us. Heavy shot, but not always on target and when things does not go his way, he get fustrated very easily to where he takes unwanted penalties. He defensive side of his game is just not there and has difficulties keeping up with his man in his own zone. Skating is not an asset for him. Needs to improve on his skating, his shot needs to be more accurate, and to reduce his careless penalties if he has a shot in the NHL.

Evgeny Svechnikov is in his first full pro season. He started out struggling mainly trying to adopt to the pro game. Took a lot of unwanted, fusterating penalties and lead the Griffins in PIM for most of the season. His game is starting to come around and his points are starting to come on a more consistent basis. He tied the Griffins record recently with a 12 point game streak by a rookie (Jiri Hudler). He has been on the #2 PP unit for most of the season. Starting to improve as a forchecker and has forced opponents to create turnovers in the offensive end. Needs some work on the defensive side of his game, but he is a hard worker and I hope that his work ethic will make him a much better player when our playoffs start in mid April. No need to rush him to the NHL as he is not ready yet.

Matt Lorito is currently the Griffins leading scorer. He is our set up guy on the 5 forwards PP unit and he was on our #1 line for most of the season. With callups, injuries, and veteran scratches here, Nelson decided to move Lorito down to the #2 line for more 5 on 5 balance scoring. After coming back from the All-Star game and from injury (month prior to that), Matt is starting to get back on the scoresheet once again. He leads out team with 29 assists. Good skater. He is OK on the defensive side of this game, but he can improve on that. Could get a brief look in Detroit before our playoffs start.

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03-04-2017, 07:43 PM
  #103
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03-04-2017, 09:38 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by waltdetroit View Post
For me, this is comparing apples to oranges
Doesnt sound like. Sounds like that these rookies are not the best players. How can you explain it away just because the warriors are more experienced?

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03-04-2017, 09:51 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltdetroit View Post
For me, this is comparing apples to oranges

Tangradi (28 yrs) and Street (30 yrs) have much more experience, even seeing brief time in the NHL. They are both strong and savvy - play very well at the AHL level when not injured.

Svechnikov (20 yrs), Frk (23 yrs), and Bertuzzi (22 yrs) are younger getting experience. Svech has the most talent and will most likely exceed the accomplishments of T & S. Bertuzzi is improving his regular season play - he is a PO warrior so far. Frk's best asset is his shot.

So for a game tonight, T & S may be the best picks, but not necessarily a year down the road.
Fair take. I remember guys like Flip, Hudler, and Kronwall being GR's best players while not being 30 years old, though. Watching last night, Svech in particular was invisible and I had to wonder if it's been like that all year. Mostly, I just wanted to see more from the kids and wasn't thrilled with how invisible they seemed. Kind of revealing that we're not likely to see any come up in the near future and be a difference maker if they can't carry the play in AHL yet.

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Eric Tangradi had a broken finger towards the start of the season and he did not get off to a good start. Eric is starting to come on strong especially in the past 2 weeks. Getting more physical along the boards, creating havoc in front of the net and he is starting to bury his chances. With Callahan called up to Detroit, Eric has moved up to the #1 PP unit with his net front presence and he just missed out on being AHL player of the week last week. Points are starting to pile up for him.

Ben Street was injured at the start of the season, so it took him a bit to get started, but Ben has been consistently getting the goals and assists since then. He plays one of the points on the 5 forward PP unit and he has a good shot from there and he plays on the PK unit as well. Skates well and not afraid to get in the corners to dig pucks out. Pretty good forechecker as well. Good pick up for the Griffins.

Tyler Bertuzzi have had a roller coaster season here. Started out slow, then he got hot, then got called up to Detroit, then he got hurt and was sent back down, then things did not go well here, then he got bronchitis and set him back, and now he is back to form. Getting close to playoff time here and Tyler is getting warmed up to it. He is starting to bury his chances on net and he is getting into the greasy areas again and he is disturbing the opponent d-man. Not afraid to play a physical game and he gets into the heads of opponents as well.

Martin Frk is our PP trigger man here in GR. He leads our team in goals, PP goals, shots, but he is in the top 3 in PIM for us. Heavy shot, but not always on target and when things does not go his way, he get fustrated very easily to where he takes unwanted penalties. He defensive side of his game is just not there and has difficulties keeping up with his man in his own zone. Skating is not an asset for him. Needs to improve on his skating, his shot needs to be more accurate, and to reduce his careless penalties if he has a shot in the NHL.

Evgeny Svechnikov is in his first full pro season. He started out struggling mainly trying to adopt to the pro game. Took a lot of unwanted, fusterating penalties and lead the Griffins in PIM for most of the season. His game is starting to come around and his points are starting to come on a more consistent basis. He tied the Griffins record recently with a 12 point game streak by a rookie (Jiri Hudler). He has been on the #2 PP unit for most of the season. Starting to improve as a forchecker and has forced opponents to create turnovers in the offensive end. Needs some work on the defensive side of his game, but he is a hard worker and I hope that his work ethic will make him a much better player when our playoffs start in mid April. No need to rush him to the NHL as he is not ready yet.

Matt Lorito is currently the Griffins leading scorer. He is our set up guy on the 5 forwards PP unit and he was on our #1 line for most of the season. With callups, injuries, and veteran scratches here, Nelson decided to move Lorito down to the #2 line for more 5 on 5 balance scoring. After coming back from the All-Star game and from injury (month prior to that), Matt is starting to get back on the scoresheet once again. He leads out team with 29 assists. Good skater. He is OK on the defensive side of this game, but he can improve on that. Could get a brief look in Detroit before our playoffs start.
Thanks for the in-depth reply, wasn't aware of the litany of injuries. Tangradi really stood out in the bit I got to watch last night with his play down low in the offensive zone. Admittedly, kept thinking of the few times he was up in Detroit, comparing it with how he stands out in GR, and then with how some of the other guys weren't standing out. Not getting a chance to see a lot of GR games I was sort of using that as a mental measuring stick.

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03-05-2017, 12:45 AM
  #106
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Griffins score 3 in the third to beat the Texas Stars:

The Grand Rapids Griffins ventured to Austin, TX for their 3rd straight road game and came away with a 5-2 victory over the Texas Stars.

1st period: Texas got on the board at 6:51 when Nick Ebert shot the puck from the point and was deflected in front of Jimmy Howard by Cole Ulley. Griffins tied it up at 10:10 mark on the PP as Bertuzzi made a pass from the circle to Hicketts in front of the Stars goal and he passed over to the other side to Svechnikov and he one timed it by Justin Peters. At 15:52 the Griffins made it 2-1 when Svechnikov was at the far boards and he saw Bertuzzi from the point position heading toward goal and made a nice pass to the circle and Bertuzzi one timed it home. Howard stopped 14 of 15 shots in the first period to preserve the Griffins lead.

2nd period: Texas got the equalizer at 4:28 when Travis Morin made a nice feed to a breaking Mark McNeill as he got between Mike Borkowski and Dylan McIlrath and made a nice shot beating Jimmy Howard.

3rd period: Griffins broke the 2-2 on a trick face off play. Matthew Ford won the draw and saw Eric Tangradi breaking between 2 Stars players and he redirected Ford's pass into the Stars net. It ended up being the game winning goal. Griffins broke the game wide open as Jimmy Howard made the save with the Stars shorthanded and Matt Lorito got the rebound and started a 3 on 1 and made a nice pass to a breaking Ben Street and he redirected the puck by Peters for a PP goal at 16:23. The Stars shortly after pulled their goalie and Matt Lorito scored the empty netter at 16:56 to finish the scoring.


1 2 3 F
GR 2 0 3 5
TX 1 1 0 2


GR 9 11 10 30
TX 15 10 8 33


PP: 2-4
PK: 2-2


Griffins goals:
Svechnikov (PP), Bertuzzi, Tangradi (GWG), Street (PP), Lorito (EN)

Griffins assists:
Svechnikov, Hicketts (3), Bertuzzi, Ford, Lorito, Campbell


Tomas Nosek (concussion) did not play but did arrive in Austin and he is cleared to play and could be playing Tuesday in San Antonio. Martin Frk did not play tonight (flu).

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03-05-2017, 02:25 AM
  #107
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Where do the new kids on defense (Hronek, Saarijarvi and perhaps De Haas) fit in the squad next season?

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03-05-2017, 09:37 AM
  #108
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Doesnt sound like. Sounds like that these rookies are not the best players. How can you explain it away just because the warriors are more experienced?
I guess that whatever you mean by "best forward". Does that include potential for someone newly to the AHL or just what is done on the ice so far this year?


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03-05-2017, 10:19 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Leronziia View Post
Where do the new kids on defense (Hronek, Saarijarvi and perhaps De Haas) fit in the squad next season?
There has been a core of:

Paetsch - Hicketts
Lashoff - Russo
Renouf - Jensen
(McIlrath)
Allen - Caito



I could think it will be decision between Lashoff and Paetsch who will stay as veteran left D. There has been now five lefties, but if McIlrath will get an extension, it gives us a physical righty and then one stay-at-home lefty can go.

DeHaas replaces at least Conor Allen. Russo and Jensen will be promoted and then there are huge open slots for right-handed defenceman Saarijärvi and Hronek. Imo, acquiring McIlrath will make that right side pretty perfect if you think roles. Hronek is that both ends "norris" guy, Saarijärvi all-offensive and McIlrath all-defensive.

Next season:

Paetsch/Lashoff - Hronek (TOP pair)
Hicketts - McIlrath (midget - big guy)
Renouf/DeHaas - Saarijärvi (big guy - midget)
Renouf/DeHaas - Caito

Caito can stay as the 4th righty and 8th depth guy in rotation.

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03-05-2017, 10:56 AM
  #110
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McIlrath is a UFA this offseason. I wouldn't expect him to be brought back.

I suspect the only reason he was included in the Vanek deal was to clear a contract (Florida would have been at 47 had they not sent McIlrath to Detroit).

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03-05-2017, 12:46 PM
  #111
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McIlrath is a UFA this offseason. I wouldn't expect him to be brought back.

I suspect the only reason he was included in the Vanek deal was to clear a contract (Florida would have been at 47 had they not sent McIlrath to Detroit).
I think he's actually a RFA.

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03-05-2017, 12:53 PM
  #112
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I think he's actually a RFA.
No, he's a UFA.

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03-05-2017, 01:56 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Inspiration View Post
http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams/DET?year=2017

Says RFA there...

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03-05-2017, 10:44 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Inspiration View Post
McIlrath is a UFA this offseason. I wouldn't expect him to be brought back.

I suspect the only reason he was included in the Vanek deal was to clear a contract (Florida would have been at 47 had they not sent McIlrath to Detroit).
UFA or not, he fills a need.

Re-sign him.

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03-05-2017, 10:59 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood Stick View Post
Technically he could be either.

McIlrath has the right to declare himself a group 6 unrestricted free agent at the end of the season because he will have turned 25, he's played more than 3 years as a professional but has yet to play in 80 NHL games.

Technically speaking he's still a RFA until he decides what he wants to do. I can't think of any reason he wouldn't declare himself a UFA, but it's possible a deal is reached with the Wings preventing that from being necessary.

Every team in the league already passed on him twice this year, when he went on waivers so he'll probably jump at any contract offered to him

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03-06-2017, 02:37 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post

DeHaas replaces at least Conor Allen. Russo and Jensen will be promoted and then there are huge open slots for right-handed defenceman Saarijärvi and Hronek. Imo, acquiring McIlrath will make that right side pretty perfect if you think roles. Hronek is that both ends "norris" guy, Saarijärvi all-offensive and McIlrath all-defensive.

Next season:

Paetsch/Lashoff - Hronek (TOP pair)
Hicketts - McIlrath (midget - big guy)
Renouf/DeHaas - Saarijärvi (big guy - midget)
Renouf/DeHaas - Caito

Caito can stay as the 4th righty and 8th depth guy in rotation.
Jensen is already with the Wings barring any additions that Holland will make during the off-season on defense. Russo will at least start next season here in Grand Rapids. Not sure what the Wings will do on Lashoff and what the Griffins will do on Paetsch. Hicketts and Renouf will most likely be in Grand Rapids next season. Connor Allen and Matt Caito have spent more time in Grand Rapids this season then in Toledo, which was not expected. That could put one or both of them in having a good chance to make the Griffins team next season.

What makes you think that Hronek and Saarijarvi will turn pro after this season? I thought that I read somewhere that Holland wanted Hronek to play in the OHL next season since he has only played one season in the OHL (Saginaw). Is Saarijarvi ready to be a pro after 2 years in the OHL? Depending on what happens in the off-season with the Wings, DeHaas might start the season in Toledo. Lot of things up in the air for next season. Too early to tell where players will end up.

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03-06-2017, 08:07 AM
  #117
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Did I see on the highlights that Hicketts plays net-front on the power play?

That seems...counter-intuitive

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03-06-2017, 12:21 PM
  #118
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Jensen is already with the Wings barring any additions that Holland will make during the off-season on defense. Russo will at least start next season here in Grand Rapids. Not sure what the Wings will do on Lashoff and what the Griffins will do on Paetsch. Hicketts and Renouf will most likely be in Grand Rapids next season. Connor Allen and Matt Caito have spent more time in Grand Rapids this season then in Toledo, which was not expected. That could put one or both of them in having a good chance to make the Griffins team next season.

What makes you think that Hronek and Saarijarvi will turn pro after this season? I thought that I read somewhere that Holland wanted Hronek to play in the OHL next season since he has only played one season in the OHL (Saginaw). Is Saarijarvi ready to be a pro after 2 years in the OHL? Depending on what happens in the off-season with the Wings, DeHaas might start the season in Toledo. Lot of things up in the air for next season. Too early to tell where players will end up.
Saarijarvi has played two post-draft years in the OHL and is at a PPG. There is nothing left for him in junior hockey after this year. Hronek has already played professional hockey and is a very, very good hockey player. If he puts in a really good offseason in the gym, I could see him being ready for the jump. DeHaas won't sign here if it means starting the ECHL.

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03-06-2017, 01:12 PM
  #119
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Quote:
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Saarijarvi has played two post-draft years in the OHL and is at a PPG. There is nothing left for him in junior hockey after this year. Hronek has already played professional hockey and is a very, very good hockey player. If he puts in a really good offseason in the gym, I could see him being ready for the jump. DeHaas won't sign here if it means starting the ECHL.
I think it almost entirely depends on how physically mature he is. His OHL bio still has him listed at just 165 pounds. He also doesn't turn twenty for another couple of months. If he's just too small, I'd consider even getting him a season back in Europe to play against high competition but not the same physical grind of the North American game.

Agreed about De Haas. Really, if he keeps doing well, he'll probably be able to ask for a spot on an NHL club somewhere. One the Wings side, they can also ask themselves if it would really matter if they have to cut Sproul loose to make room for De Haas.

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03-06-2017, 03:54 PM
  #120
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Did I see on the highlights that Hicketts plays net-front on the power play?

That seems...counter-intuitive
You did see Hicketts play net front. Must be first time that Nelson did that. Coach Nelson likes to mix it up from time to time. That is why our PP has been so successful all season long and top of the AHL.

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03-06-2017, 06:05 PM
  #121
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I guess that whatever you mean by "best forward". Does that include potential for someone newly to the AHL or just what is done on the ice so far this year?
One would think best forward is pretty self explanatory. You are either the best or you are not. Anything else is excuses.

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03-06-2017, 06:18 PM
  #122
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You did see Hicketts play net front. Must be first time that Nelson did that. Coach Nelson likes to mix it up from time to time. That is why our PP has been so successful all season long and top of the AHL.
Their PP unsurprisingly just like the Oilers days with both Renney and Nelson (AHL) thrives on movement. While Frk stays stationary to shoot, a lot of times you will see guys interchange to create gaps for chasing defenders. For instance you see this a lot with Washington in the NHL, Ovie is stationary a bunch but because of his weapon that doesn't matter and the movement has to be honored or other guys will score. It spaces out the D and lazy man to man or zone without movement cracks with talent skilled enough to take advantage. It's a good system, the other wrinkle I like is when two guys get below the goal-line they throw that out every once in a while just to make sure the other team doesn't know what is coming.

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03-06-2017, 08:55 PM
  #123
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Did I see on the highlights that Hicketts plays net-front on the power play?

That seems...counter-intuitive
I've often wondered why it is assumed you need a tall guy to play the net front position.

100% of todays goalies are completely used to dealing with screens set by big guys that love to play at the edge of the crease. More often than not all they do is take away the bottom of the net and try to look around the guy to track pucks.

When you put someone short in front of him, there would be an instinctive urge to stand taller to look over the screen which prevents him from taking away the bottom of the net.

Having screeners of different heights messes with a goalies vision and causes him to change his eye level depending on who's in front.

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03-06-2017, 09:04 PM
  #124
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I've often wondered why it is assumed you need a tall guy to play the net front position.

100% of todays goalies are completely used to dealing with screens set by big guys that love to play at the edge of the crease. More often than not all they do is take away the bottom of the net and try to look around the guy to track pucks.

When you put someone short in front of him, there would be an instinctive urge to stand taller to look over the screen which prevents him from taking away the bottom of the net.

Having screeners of different heights messes with a goalies vision and causes him to change his eye level depending on who's in front.
I don't know.

I still remember Holmstrom against Rinne... never seen Homer so ineffective at screening as he was against Nashville that playoff series.

Seems like it (height) plays a big part in how much you can obstruct their view.

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03-06-2017, 09:27 PM
  #125
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I don't know.

I still remember Holmstrom against Rinne... never seen Homer so ineffective at screening as he was against Nashville that playoff series.

Seems like it (height) plays a big part in how much you can obstruct their view.
That kind of speaks to my point. Homer and Vokoun are about the same height, meaning Vokoun was looking around Holmstrom as he did likely every other screen that he dealt with in his career.

Put a guy in front of him who is 5'7 instead of 6'1 and now there is the temptation to look over instead of around the screen.

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