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2/9 GDT: Detroit at Nashville (7pm CT / FSN / 104.5 FM)

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Old
02-09-2006, 10:22 AM
  #1
David Singleton
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2/9 GDT: Detroit at Nashville (7pm CT / FSN / 104.5 FM)

Detroit (37-13-5) 79 Pts, Last 10 Games: 7-1-2
Nashville (33-17-6) 72 Pts, Last 10 Games: 5-5-0

Probable Starters:
Detroit, Manny Legace (1.95 GAA - 92.0% Save Pct)
Nashville, Tomas Vokoun (2.64 GAA - 91.8% Save Pct)

Alternatives
Detroit, Chris Osgood (2.91 GAA - 89.0% Save Pct)
Nashville, Chris Mason (3.25 GAA - 89.6% Save Pct)

Injury List:
(NSH) D. Legwand (IR - Torn Knee Cartilage)
(NSH) S. Nichol (IR - Concussion)
(NSH) S. Walker (DTD - Wrist)
(DET) J. Fischer (IR)

[With credit to aflac9262 @ LGW.com for the above info]

State of the State (so to speak)-
Quoted from my post in a thread @ LGW.com that posed the question (after the Dallas loss) of whether Nashville was desperate and echoed by many posters here and at np.com.

Quote:
Is Nashville desperate? Well, that's pretty broad and I'm not sure I know how to answer that- but I'll try.

Nashville, like any team, sets goals for themselves at the beginning of each season. This year, Nashville had goals to win the division and to advance deep into the playoffs (at least second round, preferably Conference Championship or Cup Finals). Have they adjusted those goals upward to include winning the cup? I don't know yet. If they continue to be active with trades and/or address the current glaring problems (which I'll address in a moment), then probably so.

First- the beginning of the season goals. The first goal of winning the division is still not out of the question, however they must do well in the next two games with Detroit (at least 2 points, preferably 3 or more) and get help by hoping Detroit has some kind of skid like Nashville is having now. The latter will probably happen as teams will have several skids of two or three games each year. The former doesn't look likely with the way Nashville is playing lately.

That brings me to their second goal of advancing deep into the playoffs as well as addressing their problems right now. They can advance deep into the playoffs without winning the division- especially if they can retain the fourth seed. However they can't achieve that goal without improving their play. Right now, Nashville has no physicality and almost no grit on the ice. They are taking baby steps in the right direction in bringing Tootoo up and waiving Stevenson. The Hordichuk-Smithson-Tootoo line was one of the best 4th lines in the league in terms of punishing the opposing team with hits, speed, drawing penalties and generally being annoying as hell. Hartnell is starting to play pissed off again- witness the fight with Dallas last night. Sillinger has also brought another level of grit and Scott Walker is starting to get his game legs back (in the Colorado game, Scott Walker took a puck to the mouth and had to have four teeth pushed into the roof of his mouth. After the hit, he scored two goals in the game). It can't stop there, however.

Right now, Nashville has only three things in their favor: Vokoun, their PK, and speed. The speed allows this team to counter-attack, but they don't out-work and/or out-muscle teams any more. That's allowing opposing teams to dominate Nashville in their own zone and forcing Vokoun to defend too many shots. Poile is looking for a physical d-man and they've called up Shea Weber in preparation for the playoff run. Damn good thing their PK is good, but it should be with the practice they are getting running it.

Nashville's other major problem has been their PP. Without Legwand to bring the puck up and setup the PP, Trotz has been using Sullivan and Kariya at the points and they've been turnover machines resulting in teams scoring shorthanded way too much. Sully needs to be in the low, left corner and Kariya along the right half-boards. Zidlicky and Hamhuis also have a nasty habit of taking their shots from the point at just the precise moment to allow opposing forwards to block the shot and start a rush the other direction.

If Nashville starts playing with emotion again and corrects the issues they have with their PP, they should be fine. I don't think it's gotten to the level of desperation, although they may never catch Detroit unless they do well over the next couple of days. The playoffs, like with Detroit, remain the most important goal. They wanted to prove something by winning the division, but understand they can prove more in the playoffs.

To sum up this long post, I don't think they are desperate, but the definitely know they have to improve in the areas I mentioned (as well as their discipline- taking way too many bad penalties) in order to achieve their biggest goal.

Whew!

David
It's amazing to me that the two things I thought this team would never have to worry about- worth ethic and grit/physicality- are the biggest problems this year. There are other problems that I included above, but the biggest by far is the lack for effort and grit.

Enjoy the game tonight. Hopefully this is game one in our turnaround- which can be accomplished with the people we have and this year. I'm not saying Cup, but they can make the conference finals by working harder and being much more physical and chippy.

David

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Old
02-09-2006, 10:49 AM
  #2
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Good luck tonight guys. We need a complete effort and a fair amount of luck, but it can happen.

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02-09-2006, 02:46 PM
  #3
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Balls to the wall tonight. That is all I ask.

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02-09-2006, 02:49 PM
  #4
Joe T Choker
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if they at least don't show a better effort tonight ... the Captaincy should be stripped

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02-09-2006, 04:41 PM
  #5
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Nothing, and I mean nothing gives me an indication that tonight will be any different that last night. Which may be good, so I can turn it off early and get some homework done.

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02-09-2006, 08:23 PM
  #6
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Hamhuis posterized once again by Robert Lang. Legace snags Adam Hall's wide open shot out of the air. 2-1 Preds at this point, but the momentum has shifted to the Wings. We have to score we we have a good chance, missing the net or hitting the goalies chest isn't gonna cut it.

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02-09-2006, 08:28 PM
  #7
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Piss. 2-2. Back to the land of mediocrity.

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02-09-2006, 08:33 PM
  #8
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What in the hell...pucks sliding off the end of our sticks at the MOST inopportune times. We get a lucky tripping call when Perrault goes diving for a loose puck. Subsequent PP produces 2 shots and some real wasted opportunities.

Upshall now draws another penalty. Please do something!

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02-09-2006, 08:40 PM
  #9
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What's up with the 104.5 internet feed? It kicks in 2 minutes into the game and then cuts out to a sports talk show halfway through the 1st. Am I missing something?

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02-09-2006, 08:40 PM
  #10
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A short 5 on 3 for us, no shots on net. The rest of the PP sees nothing.

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02-09-2006, 08:41 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralPred
What's up with the 104.5 internet feed? It kicks in 2 minutes into the game and then cuts out to a sports talk show halfway through the 1st. Am I missing something?

?? FSN is on here.

The NHL.com feed generally works for Preds games, as I thought the 104.5 internet feed was not allowed to broadcast Preds games any longer.

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02-09-2006, 09:32 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basher
?? FSN is on here.

The NHL.com feed generally works for Preds games, as I thought the 104.5 internet feed was not allowed to broadcast Preds games any longer.

I'm really thinking Hamhuis could use a trip back to Milwaukee. It was his pinch that lead to that goal. Now, I normally don't mind him pinching, but he did so with dead legs and really struggled to get down the ice and allowed Detroit to easily gain the zone with speed and space. And then Kariya showed why when he's a huge liability in his own zone. Probably have been better off on a 2 on 1 with Kariya dropping back to pick the third man in. Still, Vokoun has got to make that save for us. Legace has been doing it all game long. We need our goaltender to make that one.

This game is setting up for an EN goal for Detroit because they are taking it to us.

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02-09-2006, 09:38 PM
  #13
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I'll say this after watching Timonen rifle a one-timer 10 feet wide and 5 feet high, we have got to get a shot from the point. Schneider puts that puck five inches off the ice and right on net (or just flat out scores). I've never been the biggest Timonen fan (I think he's nowhere near a first pairing Dman), but I think he's got some issues be it injuries or what not. He's just had a bunch of bad games here and done nothing for us from the point.

And as I say this, Zidlicky wiffs on a great chance to put the puck on net with traffic ends the game for us. I'd like to see one of those two moved in the off-season as a part of package that brings us a center. If we can re-sign Markov and bring up Weber, I think we'll be better off.

We played about as good as we can play and Detroit played fairly mediocre for a while and we still give up almost 50 shots and lose. We are 9 points down. I'm thinking it's time to go to the drawing board on this one. We faced a Detroit team that was ripe for the picking, played our game about as good as we can play it against Detroit and it was still a game in which Detroit was the better team.

All in all, I'm proud of the effort, and if we take that intensity and focus against the BJ's, it'll be lights out. But scheme wise, we need to work on a few issues though I liked how we played much more aggressively. Definitely something to build on here.


Last edited by SmokeyClause: 02-09-2006 at 10:03 PM.
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Old
02-09-2006, 11:04 PM
  #14
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the same things that we've been complaining about for weeks...the TSN guys(who did the commentary for center ice...yes...all of canada got to see us blow a 2 goal lead, tonight) were equally baffled by, especially the game winner. Their thoughts,

"Why does Nashville play so passive in a situation like that? Schneider had no intention of even jumping into the play, but when he saw that he could do so unchallenged, he thought 'why not?' Nashville's defense was backing up so much that if the zamboni door were open, ,they would have gone right through it.

I agree with Smokey...offensively, we were much better...defensively, we're still going about things the wrong way. I'm not as furious as I was last night, but we still blew what should have been at LEAST a point with that choke.

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02-09-2006, 11:32 PM
  #15
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**** it guys, I've had enough with the "New NHL" ... I'd much rather have it the way the game was played in the pre-lockout days, because i'm getting tired of this ***** goals 1 and 3 were due to one of our players just getting absolutely mauled ... **** it ... i'd rather watch someone abuse an animal than this *****

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02-09-2006, 11:35 PM
  #16
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How has Zidlicky looked in the past few games after returning from the injury? I know Timonen hasn't looked to hot lately.... Caught that last point shot from Zids and was just curious if that wrist is still nagging him abit.

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Old
02-10-2006, 01:44 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus O' Toole
**** it guys, I've had enough with the "New NHL" ... I'd much rather have it the way the game was played in the pre-lockout days, because i'm getting tired of this ***** goals 1 and 3 were due to one of our players just getting absolutely mauled ... **** it ... i'd rather watch someone abuse an animal than this *****
I want to be as angry as you are. I feel your anger, but honestly...I have no idea what you just said.

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02-10-2006, 04:29 AM
  #18
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Here's a novel idea, play 60 minutes, NOT JUST 20 MINTUES!!!!

I don't get it, the second pd started and everyone in the building, hell the whole world, knew that a 2 goal lead wouldn't hold up against Detroit. So we proceed to just back off and stop being agressive. They took the puck and came right at us and we let them. We stopped skating and started chasing the puck, to which Det just made one move and the puck had gone by us and was heading towards the net for yet another shot on goal. And we stopped crashing the net. We've been in this "skate in front of the goalie while someone hopefully gets the puck through from a point shot" mode for a while.

Or maybe Eaton or Markov or Hamhuis or hell, all of them will learn HOW TO CLEAR THE DAMN PUCK!!!!!!! Put the blade of your stick on the ice and clear it! It's not that hard. Half the time they wiffed on a clear attempt and it ended right back on the stick of the DET player at the top of the zone. Or why can't we just go and get the puck when someone wraps it around the endboards? We stand at the half wall and wait for the puck to come to us, so a Det player goes and stands in front of us and takes the puck right from us. It's the same thing every time.

I know we all like to think of Vokoun as Superman, but COMEON! HE CAN'T DO IT ALL ON HIS OWN!!!! Yeah some goals are bad goals that he should stop everytime, but somehow, someway we have to find a way to stop giving up more than 45 shots every damn game!

Boy you sure can tell the difference in the special teams. Their PK doesn't stop attacking the puck carrier. Even when they were down 2 men they didn't stop attacking the carrier and ended up getting Sullivan to clear the zone on his own. We just stand around and wait for them to shoot. On the PP we try too hard to make the perfect pass for the pretty highlight reel goal. JUST PARK A BIG BODY (HARTNELL/HALL ANYONE?) IN FRONT AND THROW THE PUCK AT THE NET AND TRY FOR A FREAKING REBOUND GOAL!!!!

Det makes tape to tape passes. We make pass attempts, and they are about 2 feet off the mark. When we try to carry the puck in the zone we get surrounded by 4 Det players and turn the puck over. We allow them to skate almost unmolested down the side and into the zone. At one point, the puck was in front of Legace and and all 4 Det players hesitated for a second or 2 and instead of our guy going to the open slot area to get the puck, we just waited and watched to see what they would do instead and ended up chasing them back up the ice. Det takes a shot from everywhere and gets rebounds. We pass and pass and pass to take one shot into the chest of the goalie that immediately gets cleared to center ice and we spend another 3 minutes trying to do the same thing all over again.

And why, for the love of GOD WHY do we have to on EVERY shot, take a huge wind up to shoot? Can't we shoot a wrist shot once in a while?

I thought it was a good thing we finally got our *** kicked Wednesday so we would wake up (i wish it wouldn't have been detroit, but whatever), and I thought we would come out and respond well. We did, for ONE FREAKING PERIOD!!! Well congrats detroit, by our laying down for 2 periods you just won another Central Division title.

In all honesty, I've gone from thinking "It'll be nice to have home ice in the first round when we get in the playoffs," to "IF we make the playoffs, we're not going to be around long." And it's just by sheer luck that the 9th place team is that far behind 8th that we might just be safe playing this way for the rest of the year.

We've gotten progressively worse as the year has gone on. This will be the first month we end with a losing record. Right now we're at 2-4 with one game to go. I just don't see anything changing. And are we ever going to see "the best hockey they can play" that they love to talk about so much? I'm wondering if maybe we saw it in October?

I just don't understand how we've become so sucky the last month or so.

Saturday would be a good time to go ahead and STOP SUCKING!!!!!!!!!

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Old
02-10-2006, 05:55 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predonater
Balls to the wall tonight. That is all I ask.
And that's what you got.

This team played hard and physical tonight and deserved a point, two bad line changes killed us.

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02-10-2006, 07:16 AM
  #20
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It was f'ing ridiculous we let schneider just skate in like that and take a shot. why the crap didn't someone put a body to him?

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02-10-2006, 07:22 AM
  #21
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couple of thoughts......

...defeat still tastes bitter in the morning, even a hard fought defeat.
...you felt we were hanging on by our fingernails from about the 5 minute mark of the first with us up 2-0. you knew they were coming from behind, and just couldn't shake them off your tail. one of those games where when it was 2-0, where you just knew whoever scored the 3rd goal was going to win to be honest.
...yes we had a bad line change going on the game winning goal, and yes hamhuis got caught pinching, but schneider should have been kariya's man all the way. we had 5 men on the ice, and the forwards have got to pick up those trailing d-men.
...watching our breakout in comparison to detroit's is highly frustrating. wings always skating forward, always in complete control of the puck, always with guys gathering speed and breaking down the middle to get the puck to.
...it's patently obvious that detroit is a much better coached offensive club than we are. their breakout schemes are well thought out and run. you can tell we have never been an offensive oriented club before this year, our breakout from our zone and regroup int he neutral zone systems are so basic, and appear to be made up as we go along compared to the wings methodical methods here.
...sillinger. he appears to me to be perreault II. lack of speed. lack of stickhandling ability. a good sniper-type guy. a good faceoff guy. always about a step behind the play while i've been watching him lately. a guy who can get you goals, if he posts up somewhere and waits for someone else to make a play. maybe i'm being too harsh and hasty, i'll wait and see.

...i get so frustrated listening to people on the call-in show, to willy's explainations, and to comments on the board about the reasons we're getting outshot so bad every game. all anyone can say is "we need a physical defensiveman". like that is the reason we're giving up over 40 shots a game. of course our inability to win those fights down low for the puck does contribute mightily to those shots totals. of course it does. but the real reason we're giving up so many shots isn't our defensivemen at all. it's the fact that we are all of a sudden a HORRIBLE forechecking and backchecking team. we simply are allowing the other team to gather itself when they get the puck, to skate up ice, to pick the man breaking thru the neutral zone with speed that they want to skate the puck in and hit him with an easy pass. and bam they're driving the net in our zone, or driving into the zone and when a dman has to break to stop them simply dumping the puck off to one of the far points in our zone and having a ready made offense set up. this is due to the fact we have slow centers (good chance that perreault,sillinger, johnson, smithson as a foursome are the slowest combined 4 centers on one team in the west). teams can do this because we have small non-physical forwards galore (kariya, sully, erat). teams can do this because we don't have a forecheck going EVER (unless somehow our 4th line is actually on the ice). we don't have the team speed to backcheck like we used to anymore and break up plays as teams gain our zone.

i realize newer hockey fans cann't see this aspect of the game easily and it simply appears that somehow our d-men are failing to do their jobs defending. but this is the area where we really,really miss a healthy legwand and walker.... think it's an accident we're giving up an average of 5 more shots a game these last 25 than the first 25 or that somehow our defensivemen have gotten worse?...

thank god for the olympic break. the team needs it, but i need it worse. this is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, but right now i feel enthusiasm and fun slipping away. i really need the break.

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02-10-2006, 07:27 AM
  #22
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Trotz doesn't know what offensive flow is period. Our breakouts look the same as they did when Hulse, Houlder and Kezcmer manned the points. It's not just the defenseman though, if our forwards are cheating and already at the other blueline, they're sitting on the halfboards in the defensive zone waiting for a pass, when they get the pass, they try this dead start the other defenseman pinches in and bam, turnover. We don't use the speed we have on defense or on wing as an advantage, never have.

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02-10-2006, 07:29 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
And that's what you got.

This team played hard and physical tonight and deserved a point, two bad line changes killed us.
I completely disagree.

The team played hard and physical for the first period and parts of the third period. However, even that had limits. Hordi is mad and starts jawing with Shanny and the referees (who were like body armor for Detroit last night- preventing anything from starting)- he eventually backs down and Trotz doesn't play him too much after that.

Samuelson gets away with a cheap knock down on Kariya- no retaliation. Maltby shoves Hartnell in the back of the head- no retaliation.

After Maltby's shove, Hordichuk should have started playing a little dirty- blatant charge or a hard crosscheck. Nashville should have targeted Hank, Dats, or Lidstrom and started a little dirty work of their own. Nothing to cause injury- but definitely knockdowns like what happened to Kariya.

I watched that game (Section 205) and Nashville was matched or bettered physically by Detroit. Detroit always had the last word/push in each physical encounter.

These guys aren't illiterate or dumb. They are aware that they've lost their physical edge and tried to get it back. When they saw that the referees were not going to allow it, they fell back to playing like ****. Passive and allowing Detroit to do anything they wanted. That's when you don't give the referees the opportunity to stop anything. You start it, finish it, and accept the consequences. Those consequences may be a penalty, or two, but they also include energizing your team and your fans- and in the second period especially both were dead.

David

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02-10-2006, 07:33 AM
  #24
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Did you miss Hartnell giving Maltby the butt end to start it or Suter giving it to Samuelson? What about Zidlicky's punch to Maltby's jaw, did you catch that?

I did get pissed at Trotz for benching Hordi, but that's Trotz.


When your team is coached by a passive coach and you have a passive captain, you're team is generally passive.

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02-10-2006, 07:34 AM
  #25
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The only thing I disagree with regarding your post 303 is Erat's physicality. More specifically, Erat isn't physical per se, but he is just about the only forward we have that actually can win the puck battles. He's really pretty good winning those battles. Now, he's not the greatest playmaker in setting up others after he won the puck, but that's not what you were mentioning.



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