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All-encompassing Goaltending Megathread: Part II

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Old
01-19-2017, 10:08 AM
  #51
Ori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
It`s a blog, an opinion from a guy named, Adam Herman. He looks young, and I`ve no idea who the guy is.
Most news reporters in NY and other parts of NA and sports media blaming Henrik`s poor performance recently and some have used similar words like crisis, because based on our injury situation with Raanta (his mystic lower body injury.) And Henrik`s focus recently tracking the puck has been looking awkward the last game.

What is important here writing similar headlines like Complaining about Lundqvist is pointless is just wrong to utter that, and I`ve listen to the podcast below the blog too - not sure if the blog & podcast is from the same source.

My brief point is that Adam Herman only restrict himself and others, and limits other how they should use words concerning the King of New York, and the player with the most expensive contract on this team. I`ve mentioned contract value recently in other topics too, because it`s critical to evaluate a player performance, and what you can expect from a player like Henrik or Rick Nash for instant based on their contract here in New York since it`s a professional sport.

I did not bother to read his whole content based on his narrow view of his headline of this blog, except the three first paragraphs, because I get easily provoked when someone trying to throw down an opinion upon you so you almost react like: Alright, alright.. I give up.. ..nothing is wrong with the King.. ..nothing has happened this season to use hard words like crisis, or bad and negative words in the media about Henrik.

Anyway Adam Herman need to remember since he live in US that freedom of speech is very important from any fans not only in sport, but in life in general within the forum/country restrictions of the HF Boards. So what if someone want to utter that Henrik has played like a merely shadow of himself this season, and most fans in MSG reacted to that against Stars some night ago - that is natural and human common reaction.

That`s my view on it defense or goalie situation - and AV mentioned it too; they need to figure it out together as a team and step up some levels to deliver a quality performance.

And please stop speculating in injuries even if you`ve a doctor degree in field of medicine - we have no inside information about Henrik`s health.


Last edited by Ori: 01-19-2017 at 11:16 AM.
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Old
01-19-2017, 11:11 AM
  #52
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01-19-2017, 11:31 AM
  #53
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It's time we get down to brass tacks: the blue on Hank's pads doesn't match the blue on the Rangers jersey and it's triggering my OCD


Last edited by Crease: 01-19-2017 at 11:38 AM.
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Old
01-19-2017, 11:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
It's time we get down to brass tacks: the blue on Hank's pads doesn't make the blue on the Rangers jersey and it's triggering my OCD
Same here, Bauer hasn't been able to get the digital printed pad graphics color contrast correct. Hopefully they can improve on that.

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01-19-2017, 11:57 AM
  #55
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It's time we get down to brass tacks: the blue on Hank's pads doesn't match the blue on the Rangers jersey and it's triggering my OCD
Damn you Bauer....


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Old
01-19-2017, 01:03 PM
  #56
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I'm a big Lundqvist fan, but not to the point where I'll either fail to admit something is seriously wrong or blame the whole thing on the defense.

Let me ask a serious question. When has Lundqvist ever had a good defense in front of him? Going back a few years, the prevailing argument is the Rangers need to beef up the offense - some holes in the defense are OK because we have the greatest goalie in the world back there. Flash forward to now and the offense is better, the D still stinks, and Lundqvist's game has slipped. Why can't some people admit that? why do people continue to blame other things that have always been problems back when he was great?

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01-19-2017, 01:42 PM
  #57
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Go watch Henriks presser from yesterday..he basically put the defensive struggles on himself..saying he's not giving them confidence to play well, etc. He took almost the entire blame for the teams struggles of late.

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01-19-2017, 01:58 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddi View Post
Thank you Auf for taking the time and effort. Looking at your graph it certainly shows a downward trend in Hanks play. However if you break down the months and exclude the 895 he had against the Pens during April it doesn't look as bad. Is it fair to assume his eye injury might have affected his play in the PO's?

2015/2016

oct: 943

nov: 929

dec: 892

jan: 922

feb: 934

mars: 906

april (PO): 895

If we take into account that he might have battled trough eye injury during april then honestly it doesn't look that bad to me. 4 arguably great months out of 6 total.

Lundqvist being affected by his injury in the playoffs is just speculation from my part.
Don't thank me, I just took it from hockeyviz.com

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01-19-2017, 02:07 PM
  #59
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Yeah put me on the side of those who don't think Hank was calling out his D in that presser. He's allowed to say what happened (tons of grade A chances in front) without it being construed as calling them out. Seemed like he was taking responsibility for his play, which was terrible btw.

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01-19-2017, 02:10 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Go watch Henriks presser from yesterday..he basically put the defensive struggles on himself..saying he's not giving them confidence to play well, etc. He took almost the entire blame for the teams struggles of late.
He's clearly bipolar. One day a sports car driving, defense blaming hotshot -- the next day taking all the blame on himself.

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Old
01-19-2017, 02:13 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
He's clearly bipolar. One day a sports car driving, defense blaming hotshot -- the next day taking all the blame on himself.
Lmao. Maybe we should confiscate his lamborghini until he gets a SO.

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01-19-2017, 02:22 PM
  #62
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Is Henrik done? I hope not, but I'm amazed at the negativity directed at a guy that's been the most consistent goaltender in franchise history. We should all take a step back and be grateful that we haven't had to have a conversation like this for the past eleven years.

Hell, Hasek won a Vezina at age 36 and Luongo is looking pretty good at 37. I certainly hope this is just a rough stretch for him mentally and he bounces back. I'm not ready to say goodbye yet.

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01-19-2017, 02:33 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Says the guy posting on HFBoards.
One, I used to write for Hockey's Future.

Two, I've had numerous requests to write elsewhere, but I have zero time to do it.

Three, who gives a ****? I'm not requesting support or putting myself out there as a "professional" in that realm as of right now.

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Old
01-19-2017, 02:34 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Is Henrik done? I hope not, but I'm amazed at the negativity directed at a guy that's been the most consistent goaltender in franchise history. We should all take a step back and be grateful that we haven't had to have a conversation like this for the past eleven years.

Hell, Hasek won a Vezina at age 36 and Luongo is looking pretty good at 37. I certainly hope this is just a rough stretch for him mentally and he bounces back. I'm not ready to say goodbye yet.
I'd love to see the cross section of the people that are disrespectfully roasting Lundqvist. I think anyone who went through the 98-04 dark ages at least has some context to really/truly appreciate the peace of mind Lundqvist has provided for over a decade. I think people who didn't go through those times - where everything was busted, including the goaltending, has more of a propensity to run their mouths about Lundqvist's poor play. Another part of me thinks its just the "what have you dont for me lately" mentality of NYC itself.

Anyway, you named some outliers, but history has not been friendly to goaltenders over the age of 35 for the most part. Theres a lot of speculation around here, but I do see evidence of a physical decline. Lundqvist has always been a guy that plays deep in his net and is heavily dependent on his reflexes and lower body that has allowed him to square up and virtually take up the entire bottom part of the net. I think both of those bedrock elements of his game are slipping. The reaction time seems a tick slow, and I can't recall any other time where Lundqvist looked so messy in the crease. He's like a deer on ice at times.

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01-19-2017, 03:48 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Gathers View Post
One, I used to write for Hockey's Future.

Two, I've had numerous requests to write elsewhere, but I have zero time to do it.

Three, who gives a ****? I'm not requesting support or putting myself out there as a "professional" in that realm as of right now.
1. You said nobody takes them seriously. I find that funny. Clearly enough people do, hence the following of their site, one of the highest of the SB Nation hockey sites.

2. I didn't ask, nor did I need to know that you once wrote here and have had offers in the past. Doesn't change my opinion on the matter of you discrediting their work.

3. This is an open forum. ANYONE can write on here, as delusional as some people are. History on this forum means nothing and doesn't mean anyone could be wrong in what they are saying.

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01-19-2017, 04:18 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
He's clearly bipolar. One day a sports car driving, defense blaming hotshot -- the next day taking all the blame on himself.
You forgot my favorite, "aggressive fashionista"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Go watch Henriks presser from yesterday..he basically put the defensive struggles on himself..saying he's not giving them confidence to play well, etc. He took almost the entire blame for the teams struggles of late.
This! I honestly cant understand why some people feel the need to spin it some ******** story about Hank deflecting blame.

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01-19-2017, 04:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Siddi View Post
This! I honestly cant understand why some people feel the need to spin it some ******** story about Hank deflecting blame.

Interpreting something differently than you isn't spin. Being disingenuous with facts, however, is. I hesitantly bring up your main board post saying Hank wasn't bad last year while omitting his worst statistical month without explanation.


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01-19-2017, 05:04 PM
  #68
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Interpreting something differently than you isn't spin. Being disingenuous with facts, however, is. I hesitantly bring up your main board post saying Hank wasn't bad last year while omitting his worst statistical month without explanation.
Trying to push a narrative that isn't true is indeed a spin.

Which post are you referring to? If i have made a misstake i will gladly admit to it.

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01-19-2017, 05:08 PM
  #69
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Regarding Lundqvist

Have had to look back and see some older quotes I made earlier this season about our Dire King. Unfortunately My pre-season premonition seems to have been right on the money. And now there are confidence issues, media issues and fan issues to boot. This could get Ugly. Still think it can be amicable fixed with adjustments. A lot of it is in the mind right now too. So please snap out of it now your Highness. The Gotham Kingdom needs its King, not a naked Emporer!

Quote:
December 24 2016 in a locked GDT thread (post #507)
That rebound goal looked pretty bad too. He is playing too deep. He needs to play the angles better. Come out when they are shooting from the slot. Been saying this since last year. He still will make a great save or two by playing the reflex goal line goalie thing, but his reflexes are slowing down. Allaire needs to step in and adjust this. NOW
Quote:
October 29 2016 in a locked GDT thread (post #737)
He is too deep in the net in general. Yes he was screened and yes the puck was Deflected. As was the first goal (deflected). And yes I am right here in a way that a non goalie might not understand. I am not a Hank detractor at all like some here, to the contrary a great fan, but I have seen this tendency since last year and have been commenting it. Hanks style of play will allow more goals in the future when his reflexes diminish taking away that minuscule procent of advantage as this unique way of netminding gets less effective. Father Time is such a bore. Allaire should see this and do something about it. It can be fixed.
Quote:
October 13 2016 in a locked Trade rumor speculation thread (post #877)
I think Hank needs to adjust his game a little as Father Time:s merciless shadow approaches and The inevitable decline ensues. Play a little further out. Cut the Angles a little more aggressively. But also stay in The net more than before (not his strong side ever). Rebound control i.e. off to The sides instead of smothering everything. Pretty sure Allaire sees this too. It is doable. Reflexes are eventually slowing down too much to continue the style which relies lightening fast reaction back in goal on the world class level he has played for soon 13 years.
Thread
September 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Regarding Hanks game.
I have followed Lundqvist avidly (since his start in Frölunda) throughout his career and myself being a goalie gives one a perspective that might be Hard for nongoalies to fully comprehend. Hank has had a fantastic and extremely consistent career. He has been a cornerstone of the Rangers turnaround after the lockout season with the Rangers miraculously thereafter joining the playoffs every year but one (thanks Oli) since the dark ages. Playing behind many a team that many years should not even have aspired to be in a discussion for postseason play. He was the difference maker. For well over a decade Hank has played extremely well and it is impossible to even start to think where we would be without his stellar play. Franchise goalie for sure. No questions asked actually.

I never liked the contract though. It was necessary to give him this high hit I guess, especially since he bit the bullet a bit earlier and took a hometown deal in order for Sather the continue has vanity-based, pathetic roster juggling in a new cap world, but the numbers involved here always had me thinking, "this will bite us in the future".

That being said, last season and at WC (small sample size) I saw things in Hanks game that are a bit concerning. To say the least. And yet logical. Hank has become a bit more inconsistent in his play. His rebound control and reflexes are a tweak slower. His numbers dipped a bit. Get used to it. His frustrations and anguish are also a tiny bit more apparent. That probably has to do with Father Time knocking at the door. Inevitable. His playing style "deep in the net" builds on his extremely superior reaction skills to play the fantastic game he has played throughout his career. But since this is a world of microseconds, there is a very small margin for error. I am sure Allaire sees this too. Forget the fancy stats btw. They do tell a bit but not the entire truth. There is no doubt in my mind that Hank has been the best goalie in the world the past 12 years (not taking one season out of context) and that he has bailed out The Rangers and Team Sweden consistently over this timeframe. More than either team deserves.

That said, in order for Hank to continue at a level anything close to what he has put up before, I think he will now need to adjust his game a bit. Play a little further out. Use angles and experience more than always relying on his previous catlike explosive reactions. Play less games and more focused (something AV took up which of course means they know and see this too). Change his game a little. Can he and will he do this? Only time will tell...

Another thing is of course - Avoid being burned out in April. This of course will put pressure on the backup and the team in General. Can the spoiled NYR D - with Rantaa in net - go say 15-10 or better in 25 games with Rantaa as the starter? If so, they should be good. If not, well there lies a risk. Both for the team and for Hanks developing twilight of his career. The pressure of making the POs otherwise might then be its own undoing as an overworked older Hank will not be as useful in the POs as the Rangers will need to have. And therein lies the problem. Are the Rangers a playoff team with Hank getting a smaller workload? And if not, what doe that mean and what implications will this have?

Because the demise has started, there are cracks in the wall and there are still many and very expensive years left on that contract. That could become a real cap catastrophe situation down the line. Where the "what have you done for me lately?" Crowd comes out with pitchforks and torches in the earnest. It can get very very ugly. And also provide fuel for hundreds of threads, thousands of posts and millions of letters being typed on these boards and elsewhere.

Like the gut guy Red said in the classic movie Platoon "I got a bad feeling about this one"... Time will tell


Last edited by BBKers: 01-19-2017 at 05:15 PM.
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Old
01-19-2017, 05:29 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Siddi View Post
Trying to push a narrative that isn't true is indeed a spin.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. It's easier on the heart. Here I'm seeing genuine disagreement over what Hank intended by his reference to shot quality in the presser.

Quote:
Which post are you referring to? If i have made a misstake i will gladly admit to it.
In the Hank thread, page 6. PB said Hank's season after the first few months was bad. You disagreed and showed a monthly breakdown that didn't include April (.895) and didn't explain why. You showed your reasoning here, but not there. Of course spin requires intent. If it was an honest omission, no stress

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01-19-2017, 05:30 PM
  #71
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01-19-2017, 05:32 PM
  #72
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BBKers I'm with you on this one. For what it's worth (highly debatable as everything else here ) I played goalie 25 years including juniors and college. Hank needs to challenge more.

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01-19-2017, 05:43 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
In the Hank thread, page 6. PB said Hank's season after the first few months was bad. You disagreed and showed a monthly breakdown that didn't include April (.895) and didn't explain why. You showed your reasoning here, but not there. Of course spin requires intent. If it was an honest omission, no stress
I left his PO month out on purpose. If you follow the chain of posts back to where that particular discussion started you will find that his play in April was already covered by the post PB commented on. PB then specifically stated that he meant Hanks play before the playoffs. The discussion was about Hanks regular season. That is why i left out April.

Maybe a little more digging before alluding to someone being disingenuous

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01-19-2017, 05:45 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Siddi View Post
I left his PO month out on purpose. If you follow the chain of posts back to where that particular discussion started you will find that his play in April was already covered by the post PB commented on. PB then specifically stated that he meant Hanks play before the playoffs. The discussion was about Hanks regular season. That is why i left out April.
As more commonly than I'd like, misunderstood. Thank you

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01-19-2017, 05:51 PM
  #75
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As more commonly than I'd like, misunderstood. Thank you
It's all good. Hopefully next time you will give me the benefit of the doubt

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