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Old
02-27-2017, 11:27 AM
  #101
Oilpeg
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
It's still an ELC. Every team would be offereing the same base contract. $925k with a $92.5k signing bonus ($70k AHL) the Jets can offer him that contract as soon as his season is done at UND. He could pocket $100k or so before the summer and then another $92.5k on July 1.
Plus he's from East Grand Forks so Winnipeg is close enough for family and friends to visit.

My thoughts also strayed towards his brother and if maybe the Jets should target him as well. Not this year though as he's definitely not ready, but I liked what i saw in him, too. Not flashy at all and he's got next to zero for offence in his game right now, (a couple Pardy dangles at the blueline though), but he's steady defensively and makes good decisions. He's smaller than Tucker, only 6'1" but he's a left shot. If you think about where Colton is as a Freshman this year and compare it to where Tucker was at the same stage, Colton is in a pretty good spot, at least he's playing his proper position while Tucker was a forward as a Freshman. Colton Poolman is definitely someone to keep an eye on. I don't think he'll ever be confused with an offensive guy, but he could develop into a solid defensive guy.

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02-27-2017, 01:21 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by HPsauce View Post
I have to disagree. In all reality, Postma puts his dpartner in awful situations constantly. It's usually up to Ben to give Postma a clear break with time and space in order to move the puck. You'll often see Postma give a puck he can't move, to his partner, Postma avoids the hit and plays it right to his partner who has to smother the puck, take a hit, or chip it off the glass and out.

Postma shouldn't even be near the NHL. He does one thing well, walking the puck along the blue line in the ozone. But, he usually shoots right into a defender right after a nice drag along to blueline.

Poolman is a far better player, on his edges more effectively, a far better first step.

Postma can't get off the ice fast enough, he's brutal.
Hell no. Chiarot is litteraly one of the worst zone exit defenders in the NHL. Postma is not.
It's not my opinion; it's data!!!

Every season! Every single season of their careers Postma has been better in shots, scoring chances, and goals.

Chiarot is one of the worst defenders in the NHL over his career for shots, scoring chances, and goals. He's one of the worst defenders in terms of zone exits and entries. He is one of the highest icings per possession players. This is not a coincidence. It's not like their is a magical fairy upstairs skewing the results against Chiarot. It happens for a reason!

The results are the way they are because of the decisions and actions Chiarot and Postma makes or attempts to make.

How do people not see this?

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02-27-2017, 01:40 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Hell no. Chiarot is litteraly one of the worst zone exit defenders in the NHL. Postma is not.
It's not my opinion; it's data!!!

Every season! Every single season of their careers Postma has been better in shots, scoring chances, and goals.

Chiarot is one of the worst defenders in the NHL over his career for shots, scoring chances, and goals. He's one of the worst defenders in terms of zone exits and entries. He is one of the highest icings per possession players. This is not a coincidence. It's not like their is a magical fairy upstairs skewing the results against Chiarot. It happens for a reason!

The results are the way they are because of the decisions and actions Chiarot and Postma makes or attempts to make.

How do people not see this?
I see it quite clearly. Chariot is a play killer all over the ice and I can't stand that for some inexplicable reason our coaching staff continually elevates him up the line up over a superior player in Postma.

Paul's not perfect and leaves a bit to be desired with his defensive play but he's substantially better at moving the puck out of his end with control and generating offense.

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02-27-2017, 01:45 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Hell no. Chiarot is litteraly one of the worst zone exit defenders in the NHL. Postma is not.
It's not my opinion; it's data!!!

Every season! Every single season of their careers Postma has been better in shots, scoring chances, and goals.

Chiarot is one of the worst defenders in the NHL over his career for shots, scoring chances, and goals. He's one of the worst defenders in terms of zone exits and entries. He is one of the highest icings per possession players. This is not a coincidence. It's not like their is a magical fairy upstairs skewing the results against Chiarot. It happens for a reason!

The results are the way they are because of the decisions and actions Chiarot and Postma makes or attempts to make.

How do people not see this?
Dunno, it's plain as day. Shock maybe?

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02-27-2017, 01:58 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I see it quite clearly. Chariot is a play killer all over the ice and I can't stand that for some inexplicable reason our coaching staff continually elevates him up the line up over a superior player in Postma.

Paul's not perfect and leaves a bit to be desired with his defensive play but he's substantially better at moving the puck out of his end with control and generating offense.
They'd rather play Chiarot up the lineup on his wrong side than a superior player. I call that incompetence.

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02-27-2017, 02:00 PM
  #106
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Possession exits vs non-possession exits:
Enstrom 60.9%
Myers 60.6%
Byfuglien 52.5%
Postma 44.7%
Morrissey 44.2%
Chiarot 40.0%

20 games tracked thus far.

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02-27-2017, 02:04 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Possession exits vs non-possession exits:
Enstrom 60.9%
Myers 60.6%
Byfuglien 52.5%
Postma 44.7%
Morrissey 44.2%
Chiarot 40.0%

20 games tracked thus far.
Trouba?

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02-27-2017, 02:07 PM
  #108
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Trouba?
Mostly games tracked in beginning of season, so I don't have enough touches for Trouba or Stuart.

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02-27-2017, 02:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Possession exits vs non-possession exits:
Enstrom 60.9%
Myers 60.6%
Byfuglien 52.5%
Postma 44.7%
Morrissey 44.2%
Chiarot 40.0%

20 games tracked thus far.
Definitions?

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Old
02-27-2017, 02:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Definitions?
What percentage of their exits are passes or skate outs versus chip, dump, failures, or icing.

I have better algorithms for using the granular data better but this is generally good for a quick peek. The algorithm also includes transitional passes (non-exit passes) that I haven't included in the above.

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02-27-2017, 02:17 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Hell no. Chiarot is litteraly one of the worst zone exit defenders in the NHL. Postma is not.
It's not my opinion; it's data!!!

Every season! Every single season of their careers Postma has been better in shots, scoring chances, and goals.

Chiarot is one of the worst defenders in the NHL over his career for shots, scoring chances, and goals. He's one of the worst defenders in terms of zone exits and entries. He is one of the highest icings per possession players. This is not a coincidence. It's not like their is a magical fairy upstairs skewing the results against Chiarot. It happens for a reason!

The results are the way they are because of the decisions and actions Chiarot and Postma makes or attempts to make.

How do people not see this?
Chiarot (and Stuart) are so bad that it's really evident just watching them play. Stats confirm what you can see. I've literally never seen data on Chiarot's propensity for icing or poor zone exits, but I've commented on it regularly in game threads.

The positive attributes of a player like Postma might be a bit more difficult to assess, though he clearly is more efficient at moving the puck. Where he struggles sometimes is in defensive play in his own zone. He sometimes gets caught out of position, and he's not very good at puck battles so other teams can sometimes take advantage of him once they have possession in the Jets' zone.

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02-27-2017, 02:22 PM
  #112
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Postma's eye test isn't great. Chiarot's eye test definitely isn't great. He throws his weight around some though so he looks like he's doing something. In fact, I've seen Chiarot and Stuart do the try to tie up or push the forechecker off the puck instead of actually playing the puck, and it gets them into trouble frequently. You also don't need stats to tell that Chiarot ices the puck multiple times a game, and they're 95% preventable icings (ie. it wasn't just a missed outlet pass by the forward).

Postma is fine in the d-zone once he gets the puck, but he has a hard time getting the puck. His advanced stats make him look more effective than I think he actually is. That said, I'd rather him than Chiarot and Stuart - his ice time would be defensible if these two weren't getting more time than him.

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02-27-2017, 02:22 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Hell no. Chiarot is litteraly one of the worst zone exit defenders in the NHL. Postma is not.
It's not my opinion; it's data!!!

Every season! Every single season of their careers Postma has been better in shots, scoring chances, and goals.

Chiarot is one of the worst defenders in the NHL over his career for shots, scoring chances, and goals. He's one of the worst defenders in terms of zone exits and entries. He is one of the highest icings per possession players. This is not a coincidence. It's not like their is a magical fairy upstairs skewing the results against Chiarot. It happens for a reason!

The results are the way they are because of the decisions and actions Chiarot and Postma makes or attempts to make.

How do people not see this?
Chiarot's had some wierd cult built around him dating back to before he was even called up to Jets. I don't get it. By the same token Postma has been consistently put down. The game has changed, the Chiarot's are gone, the Postma's are coming more and more. That's how you win consistently in the NHL, by making smart depth choices like Postma over Chiarot. It's a lesson Jets haven't learned and look at where they sit in the standings.

Poolman is not NHL ready. He is not as far along as a Paul LaDue was last year, IMO, and LaDue couldn't even jump straight into NHL. I wouldn't count on Poolman being an NHL player next year.

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02-27-2017, 02:23 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
What percentage of their exits are passes or skate outs versus chip, dump, failures, or icing.

I have better algorithms for using the granular data better but this is generally good for a quick peek. The algorithm also includes transitional passes (non-exit passes) that I haven't included in the above.
Can you also include own-zone turnovers? Basically, it would be good to figure out what happens when a D has the puck. Options are:

In zone turnover
Non-exit pass
Chip, dump, failure
Icing
Skate out
Pass out

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02-27-2017, 02:28 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Chiarot's had some wierd cult built around him dating back to before he was even called up to Jets. I don't get it. By the same token Postma has been consistently put down. The game has changed, the Chiarot's are gone, the Postma's are coming more and more. That's how you win consistently in the NHL, by making smart depth choices like Postma over Chiarot. It's a lesson Jets haven't learned and look at where they sit in the standings.

Poolman is not NHL ready. He is not as far along as a Paul LaDue was last year, IMO, and LaDue couldn't even jump straight into NHL. I wouldn't count on Poolman being an NHL player next year.
Agree about Postma and Chiarot.

I'm not sure that Poolman can make the NHL next season, but I think he's definitely as far along or ahead of LaDue was last year.

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02-27-2017, 03:22 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Chiarot's had some wierd cult built around him dating back to before he was even called up to Jets. I don't get it. By the same token Postma has been consistently put down. The game has changed, the Chiarot's are gone, the Postma's are coming more and more. That's how you win consistently in the NHL, by making smart depth choices like Postma over Chiarot. It's a lesson Jets haven't learned and look at where they sit in the standings.

Poolman is not NHL ready. He is not as far along as a Paul LaDue was last year, IMO, and LaDue couldn't even jump straight into NHL. I wouldn't count on Poolman being an NHL player next year.
Agreed, a lot of people being very presumptuous about Poolman these days. Understandably I suppose given how thin the Jets are at D, still a long shot though.

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02-27-2017, 03:24 PM
  #117
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So if we don not sign Poolman this off season he will be a free agent after next season?

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02-27-2017, 03:27 PM
  #118
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Postie takes a lot of grief for his inability to win puck battles and box out but he's far better off the puck positionally that Chiarot and Stuart. At least he can maintain a gap and do something with the puck in support.

Another misuse of a player imo, Mo's D zone coverage system doesn't play to the strengths of his players, it treats them all equally, which they aren't, Their strengths need to compliment one another.

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02-27-2017, 03:28 PM
  #119
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So if we don not sign Poolman this off season he will be a free agent after next season?
He could be a UFA as soon as aug 15. I don't think he will return to UND

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02-27-2017, 03:33 PM
  #120
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Agree about Postma and Chiarot.

I'm not sure that Poolman can make the NHL next season, but I think he's definitely as far along or ahead of LaDue was last year.
He's definitely ahead of where LaDue was at this time last year. I'm not saying Poolman is a lock, but if I'm betting on Poolman's chances next year versus Ladue's chances this year, I'm all in on Poolman. Much more visible out there than Paul was, (and for the right reasons).

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02-27-2017, 03:48 PM
  #121
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I hope you are right, that signing him will not be difficult, but I feel it wont be that smooth. If I am his agent, it only makes sense to take offers from other teams, and get the highest dime you can.
As pointed out, it's an ELC - every team can offer him the same $$$. So if it's only about the money his best bet is to sign with Winnipeg - we can pay him the extra money for this season, plus the same money as everyone else for next season.

The trouble is if it's not just about the money. If Poolman wants to play for a contender, or in a bigger market, or a different coach... all he has to do is wait a few months.

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02-27-2017, 04:05 PM
  #122
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As pointed out, it's an ELC - every team can offer him the same $$$. So if it's only about the money his best bet is to sign with Winnipeg - we can pay him the extra money for this season, plus the same money as everyone else for next season.

The trouble is if it's not just about the money. If Poolman wants to play for a contender, or in a bigger market, or a different coach... all he has to do is wait a few months.
The more important thing that the Jets can offer is an opportunity to knock one year off his ELC this season, so he gets to his second NHL contract a year earlier. That's probably the most significant financial incentive for a young player who starts his pro career at 24.

Lawless said again today that all of the indications he has from folks in ND is that Poolman will sign with the Jets as soon as his season is over this spring.

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02-27-2017, 04:28 PM
  #123
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i think poolman will play a few games in the A and then get called up and stick with the jets

he's good

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02-27-2017, 04:39 PM
  #124
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If I understand it correctly, this is how it works...

If he signs for 925k he can get a 92.5k bonus.
If he is on the roster for 8 days, that is another ~40k.
92.5 + (8/180)x925 =
133.6k
That is over 130k if he signs with the Jets and is on the roster for 8 days.

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02-27-2017, 04:42 PM
  #125
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i think poolman will play a few games in the A and then get called up and stick with the jets

he's good
Depending on ND lasting or not, I see more like Copp at start mostly practices and hanging out with the big team, with next year depending on Jets depth.

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