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How are the Avs so bad?

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Old
01-25-2017, 11:28 PM
  #26
93LEAFS
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I was thinking of making this thread, but didn't want to start a full on bashfest.

Patrick Roy was still a terrible coach tactically, and they are feeling some of the ramifications of this, but Bednar is way above his head. I don't know how a team with this level of talent can be as bad as those Sabre's teams that clearly tanked in an era of parity. I get the terrible asset management on Stastny and ROR, and for whatever reasons choosing to spend money on Iginla and Soderberg instead. Obviously, missing EJ hurts, but he can never be relied upon up to stay healthy at this point.

Hopefully, for the Avs sake, they clean house at the end of the year and bring in competent management. Granted, this isn't a great year to bottom out especially with the new lotto odds.

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01-25-2017, 11:28 PM
  #27
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They have a handle of guys who would in the AHL on every other team.

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01-25-2017, 11:32 PM
  #28
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The D is bad, the goaltending is bad but

Jared Bednar is far and away the biggest issue. The team quit on him a month or so into the season. He is the worst coach in the NHL. People talk about this team being historically bad, and that's a fact, but Bednar is an historically bad coach that was given a job he didn't deserve. Sakic has no idea what he is doing on many fronts and Roy did leave him in a bad spot when he left, leaving Sakic little time and even fewer options, but Bednar doesn't belong in this league and is the biggest problem of many. Sakic being the bigger problem only because he hired him

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01-25-2017, 11:37 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Poor defense and goaltending. There's not much else to add. You can't win games without those things.
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Originally Posted by dechire View Post
Along with poor coaching and poor management.
And terrible offense with exception to Mackinnon and Duchene

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Old
01-25-2017, 11:45 PM
  #30
Man Bear Pig
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Even if Varlamov stood on his head, the team would barely be above .500. The team has a million holes to fill, but goalies aren't one of them.
Eh, I'll take your word for it considering I know you've watched more of the Avs than me. The random games I've seen, he's looked mediocre. I'm of the belief that a goalie is only as good as the D in front of him so yes, Varly would need to stand on his head for the Avs to be in the playoff conversation. I've just seen Varly play better, but that's my opinion.

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01-25-2017, 11:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
They have more players who belong in the AHL than in the NHL.

It doesn't matter how good your top end players are if half your roster doesn't belong in the NHL.
As an Oiler fan, and a Leafs fan, we should know. It's ugly.

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01-25-2017, 11:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by AMDZen View Post
The D is bad, the goaltending is bad but

Jared Bednar is far and away the biggest issue. The team quit on him a month or so into the season. He is the worst coach in the NHL. People talk about this team being historically bad, and that's a fact, but Bednar is an historically bad coach that was given a job he didn't deserve. Sakic has no idea what he is doing on many fronts and Roy did leave him in a bad spot when he left, leaving Sakic little time and even fewer options, but Bednar doesn't belong in this league and is the biggest problem of many. Sakic being the bigger problem only because he hired him
I hear you with that but the fan base has been saying that about Sacco and Roy too. Eventually it has to be the players. I agree that Sakic is the biggest problem. Terrible asset management and free agent signings on his part. They have probably lost on every trade and free agent signing they have made in the last 2 years. I would say to trade some assets, but Sakic must go if that were to happen because he can't be trusted to get fair value on his assets.

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01-25-2017, 11:50 PM
  #33
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There was a jinx thread 2 games into the season and we're still suffering for it.

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01-25-2017, 11:58 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by oXo Cube View Post
I mean, from their GDT:

Tyutin-Zadorov
Beauchemin-Goloubef
Wiercioch-Gelinas

Prime Hasek would have a hard time winning games behind that.
Legit argument that there are five ahl level defenders right there.

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Old
01-25-2017, 11:59 PM
  #35
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Forwards suck outside of duchene, mackinnon and landeskog, despite his down year. Johnsons a good dman, him being out hurts extra with barrie not playing well this year. Rest of the d is bad

They lack meaningful depth and have for a while. Bad drafting in later rounds and sakics attempts to fix depth failed. Hard to say the coach is the main problem when the last guy was supposedly the problem too.

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01-25-2017, 11:59 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by johnnybbadd View Post
I hear you with that but the fan base has been saying that about Sacco and Roy too. Eventually it has to be the players. I agree that Sakic is the biggest problem. Terrible asset management and free agent signings on his part. They have probably lost on every trade and free agent signing they have made in the last 2 years. I would say to trade some assets, but Sakic must go if that were to happen because he can't be trusted to get fair value on his assets.
And what did all 3 of those coaches have in common? All rookies and zero NHL experience between them. Fool us once, shame on me... Learn from your mistakes much? Clearly not. Sakic didn't hire sacco though, and he didn't hire Roy either. They were hired together and basically said here, make it work. Which was why Roy had some of the executive order and they shared GM roles.

The problem is that avalanche fans are naive and still believe that Roy was the worst coach ever and he wasn't. Even in the face of his departure and what the team has become, he basically saw this coming and got out in time. But Roy had a plan and a vision and Sakic has none. His plan may have been get bigger but at least it was a plan. They will argue that Roy had no system and yet perhaps this team simply wasn't a good fit for any system, and what he was doing is bringing in players so that he could slowly implement the system he wanted. As far as I am concerned, you look at the team he got his first year and won the division and then this team this year and it's plain as day that Roy is 1200x the coach Bednar is. Bednar supposedly runs a system, a very structured system. AND LOOK HOW THAT WORKS. And yet lack of system was a bad thing? Lol. Roy knew what he was doing and needed more control and more time. Oh well.

I get it though, we cried wolf so often that now you can't take Avs fans seriously. Sacco didn't belong in the NHL, Roy will get another chance if he wants it. That's the difference. As far as Bednar is concerned, he isn't even worth discussing because he won't get another opportunity either.

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Old
01-26-2017, 12:05 AM
  #37
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It's the fans' fault. Not only do they willingly pay some of the highest ticket prices in the league, but they also clamor for the greatness of yesteryear, which is why Sakic and Roy got their jobs. No other fanbase lives more in the past, and no other fanbase is more homely. It's completely on them.

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01-26-2017, 12:11 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
It's the fans' fault. Not only do they willingly pay some of the highest ticket prices in the league, but they also clamor for the greatness of yesteryear, which is why Sakic and Roy got their jobs. No other fanbase lives more in the past, and no other fanbase is more homely. It's completely on them.
Not sure if you are being a bit facetious or not, but you're not wrong so.. I hope you are serious and perhaps some Avs fans read this and think about it.

The problem is that it worked for the Broncos, Elway had already been doing a great job so Kroenke thought perhaps it would work for the Avs too and he was wrong. Very wrong.

The difference is that Elway already had experience taking the Colorado crush to multiple championships as their owner and had experience in the front office. And then he was given the vp role to gain even more experience before being given the reigns. Sakic was given some time too before getting the reigns as vp but clearly not enough and they also had some questions about him or they wouldn't have given Roy half the power alongside him

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01-26-2017, 12:11 AM
  #39
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Francois Beauchemin and Jarome Iginla are two of the worst anchors in the league, and Bednar plays them like it's still 2007. Mind blowing how bad it's getting.

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01-26-2017, 12:13 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
It's the fans' fault. Not only do they willingly pay some of the highest ticket prices in the league, but they also clamor for the greatness of yesteryear, which is why Sakic and Roy got their jobs. No other fanbase lives more in the past, and no other fanbase is more homely. It's completely on them.
We're not prom queens, but we look alright.

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01-26-2017, 12:13 AM
  #41
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They are pretty epicly bad right now.

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Old
01-26-2017, 12:15 AM
  #42
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Fun fact, the Avs second best defender tonight was Cody Goloubef, who was a literal AHL trade earlier in the year. This lineup tonight has to be one of the worst defenses in recent NHL history.

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01-26-2017, 12:16 AM
  #43
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There was a jinx thread 2 games into the season and we're still suffering for it.
Think I remember that. Wonder what the threads name was? Would like to revisit that.

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01-26-2017, 12:17 AM
  #44
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Look at their depth. Absolute trash. That management needs to be purged.

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Old
01-26-2017, 12:20 AM
  #45
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MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog and Rantanen are fine. Uninterested at times, which is understandable, but they're pretty much the only guys who you can see are good players.

But other than that, their offense just sucks. It's not like they have a bunch of young guys not ready for the NHL, instead they have a bunch of dead weight. Iginla is useless 5on5, Colborne is terrible, Grigorenko probably isn't an NHLer let alone top 6 forward, Mitchell has 1 point in 38 games, Martinsen doesn't belong in the NHL, Comeau could probably still be a decent bottom 6'er on a team that cares but he's useless on the Avs, Soderberg looks like he doesn't even want to play anymore, Bourque sucks...

So you have all these guys who either shouldn't be in the NHL in the first place, don't give a damn at this point in their careers or just old.

And then the blueline..

Beauchemin-Golobeuf
Tyutin-Zadorov
Wiercoch-Gelinas

This is probably the worst defense i've seen a long time. When pretty much your whole defense apart from 1-2 guys wouldn't even make the 3rd pairing on a winning team, you know it's bad.

Also Varlamov is in and out due to injuries and Pickard isn't more than a decent backup.

The Avs were still winning some games here and there when they had Johnson and Barrie in the lineup. Those guys along with Zadorov at least give you a decent 1-3 d-men, and the young guys up front can capitalize on some chances here and there, but overall this team is just so bad.

And it's not like they should have the potential to play better. They're just bad. One of the worst NHL teams i've seen in a while.

To put this into perspective, IMO the Coyotes are clearly the better team. That's saying quite a lot. At least they have some type of depth and capable NHL'ers throughout the lineup.
This is a pretty good summary.

They aren't even giving our kids in the AHL a chance, they are rolling out worthless veterans. We had no depth to begin with and now a waiver pickup is in our top 6 and looks good there. We have 4 real forwards and 1 real D in the lineup right now.

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01-26-2017, 12:21 AM
  #46
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I see your point AMD. I have a soft spot for the Avs because I'm a huge Broncos fan and I listen to a lot of Broncos talk radio on the Fan and I remember that Roy had a weekly show and it made me respect the hell out of him for doing that and giving the Avs coverage that they otherwise wouldn't have had and don't have anymore. What were Sakic's qualifications for getting the GM job after only 3 years in a front office role? It didn't make any sense. It feels like the Avs ownership was thinking hey, the Broncos have Elway, lets get Sakic. lol

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01-26-2017, 12:26 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by johnnybbadd View Post
I see your point AMD. I have a soft spot for the Avs because I'm a huge Broncos fan and I listen to a lot of Broncos talk radio on the Fan and I remember that Roy had a weekly show and it made me respect the hell out of him for doing that and giving the Avs coverage that they otherwise wouldn't have had and don't have anymore. What were Sakic's qualifications for getting the GM job after only 3 years in a front office role? It didn't make any sense. It feels like the Avs ownership was thinking hey, the Broncos have Elway, lets get Sakic. lol
The whole org is founded on nepotism, it has nothing to do with Elway. There's a ton of dinosaurs in the org people don't really understand how deep that goes. If we are talking deep level issues it goes to that and arrogance, living in the past, never rebuilding, pissing away assets, giving up on prospects, poor development, not investing in the future, making too many win now moves and having no foresight and plan for the future.

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01-26-2017, 12:30 AM
  #48
AMDZen
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Originally Posted by johnnybbadd View Post
I see your point AMD. I have a soft spot for the Avs because I'm a huge Broncos fan and I listen to a lot of Broncos talk radio on the Fan and I remember that Roy had a weekly show and it made me respect the hell out of him for doing that and giving the Avs coverage that they otherwise wouldn't have had and don't have anymore. What were Sakic's qualifications for getting the GM job after only3 years in a front office role? It didn't make any sense. It feels like the Avs ownership was thinking hey, the Broncos have Elway, lets get Sakic.lol
As far as I know he didn't have any other qualifications. They attempted to groom him like you said, in the image of Elway and just hoped it would work out the same way.

I could be wrong on that and perhaps he had some experience elsewhere, but pretty sure it's exactly like this highlighted piece of your statement. He was given the stint of learning over 3 years and then the GM role after.

As far as Elway, he was ceo and Co owner of the crush for 5 years where they won 2 championships and for which he was very hands on in front office roles so that's 5 years experience he had.

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01-26-2017, 12:30 AM
  #49
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Colborne is the laziest player in the league

Iginla has said he doesnt think forwards should bother with the defensive side of the game

Their defense is horrible and relies completely on 1 guy to do all the heavy lifting (he has been injured all year)

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01-26-2017, 12:38 AM
  #50
AMDZen
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Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
The whole org is founded on nepotism, it has nothing to do with Elway. There's a ton of dinosaurs in the org people don't really understand how deep that goes. If we are talking deep level issues it goes to that and arrogance, living in the past, never rebuilding, pissing away assets, giving up on prospects, poor development, not investing in the future, making too many win now moves and having no foresight and plan for the future.
Are you serious? You really just think it was a coincidence that Elway was brought in, groomed in a VP role to eventually take over the front office and then Sakic was brought in to do that exact same thing? Of course it wasn't.

It was hoped to work out the same way.

The sports world is full of nepotism. Kyle Shanahan isn't where he is today partly because of his dad? Rex and Rob Ryan? A million other examples? All the Sutters coaching in the NHL over the years.

What was bringing back wade Philips and Gary Kubiak by John Elway anything less than living in the past and nepotism? The difference is that it was clearly well thought out and the people were good at their jobs. Elway was hired because he was great at what he does, not just because of who he had been to the city of Denver. Same with the other names mentioned. Wade Philips led a historically great defense to a Super Bowl because he is a hell of a coach.

Sakic is none of the things Elway is, as far as their current positions go.

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