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How are the Avs so bad?

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Old
01-26-2017, 12:40 AM
  #51
tigervixxxen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDZen View Post
Are you serious? You really just think it was a coincidence that Elway was brought in, groomed in a VP role to eventually take over the front office and then Sakic was brought in to do that exact same thing? Of course it wasn't.

It was hoped to work out the same way.

The sports world is full of nepotism. Kyle Shanahan isn't where he is today partly because of his dad? Rex and Rob Ryan? A million other examples? All the Sutters coaching in the NHL over the years.

What was bringing back wade Philips and Gary Kubiak by John Elway anything less than living in the past and nepotism? The difference is that it was clearly well thought out and the people were good at their jobs. Elway was hired because he was great at what he does, not just because of who he had been to the city of Denver. Same with the other names mentioned. Wade Philips led a historically great defense to a Super Bowl because he is a hell of a coach.

Sakic is none of the things Elway is, as far as their current positions go.
Sports world is full of nepotism = Avs were just copying the Broncos ??

I really don't care why Sakic was put in the position. I still wonder if he's just a figurehead to a degree. When guys like Billington have been there nearly 20 years and Brad Smith since Quebec it doesn't really matter who they prop up there as GM, the whole org is still under the same operation. It's like people naively think Sakic = the entire FO and Hepple = the entire scouting staff.

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Old
01-26-2017, 12:40 AM
  #52
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Roy was amazing. They played way above their ability. Past the 1st line they are a borderline AHL team.

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01-26-2017, 12:44 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
It's the fans' fault. Not only do they willingly pay some of the highest ticket prices in the league, but they also clamor for the greatness of yesteryear, which is why Sakic and Roy got their jobs. No other fanbase lives more in the past, and no other fanbase is more homely. It's completely on them.
Wings fans beg to differ. We're going quickly into dumpster fire territory and the team is still banking on past success. Can't even argue with half the fan base because of the streak and cups that are now irrelevant. I know your pain.

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01-26-2017, 12:45 AM
  #54
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Well I would say that another comparable is Yzerman. He was with the Wings for 4 years before he was named Tampa's GM. He was also working under one of the best in the business in Holland and he was thought highly enough of from Hockey Canada to have roles with them in constructing teams though. He showed some talent early.

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01-26-2017, 12:45 AM
  #55
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Honestly what coach in their right mind would sign on to coach the Avs next year?

There's only one


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01-26-2017, 12:46 AM
  #56
AMDZen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigervixxxen View Post
Sports world is full of nepotism = Avs were just copying the Broncos ??

I really don't care why Sakic was put in the position. I still wonder if he's just a figurehead to a degree. When guys like Billington have been there nearly 20 years and Brad Smith since Quebec it doesn't really matter who they prop up there as GM, the whole org is still under the same operation.
When taken into context about the timing, yes. I think so.

Elway was brought in in 2011 to start working in the front office with the title of VP. Right after that happened, a matter of months, and Sakic was brought in with the title of "executive advisor and alternate governor for the Avalanche"

There were even questions in the media and comparisons made by everyone in the Denver media, that both were being groomed for GM roles within the front office.

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01-26-2017, 12:49 AM
  #57
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Any rebuilding since Duchene has been aimed at expensive forwards. Didn't seem to change after Sacco, been trading away defensemen since Shattenkirk. Mistakes similar to Garth Snow & Tim Murray actually.

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01-26-2017, 12:53 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christmas Izzy View Post
Colborne is the laziest player in the league

Iginla has said he doesnt think forwards should bother with the defensive side of the game

Their defense is horrible and relies completely on 1 guy to do all the heavy lifting (he has been injured all year)
Grigorenko is way lazier than Colborne, it's not really a competition.

Which is sad, because Colborne is incredibly lazy.

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01-26-2017, 12:55 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocket View Post
Roy was amazing. They played way above their ability. Past the 1st line they are a borderline AHL team.
Uh huh...

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01-26-2017, 12:58 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by leafsfan1234 View Post
They contracted Oileritis, the loser mentality is strong with them.
Not even offended by this.
Horrible, management, coaching, defense, and goaltending = Oilers 2006-2015

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01-26-2017, 01:00 AM
  #61
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Right now they're on a 50 pt pace. Would be worst season since Atlanta in 99-00. Worst by a non expansion team since 98-99. They would have less points than anyone currently in a playoff spot, and would only have more than a 2 point lead on every other team in the league but Arizona. This is a historically bad season.

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01-26-2017, 01:00 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Not even offended by this.
Horrible, management, coaching, defense, and goaltending = Oilers 2006-2015
McJesus has taken them from the ashes, can the Avs find a messiah as well??

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01-26-2017, 01:05 AM
  #63
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Grigorenko went from a tank Buffalo team to the Avs. He has to be up there for most losses in the first 200 games for a player. At least in the modern era.

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01-26-2017, 01:06 AM
  #64
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MacKinnon is no franchise player.

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01-26-2017, 01:06 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
Grigorenko went from a tank Buffalo team to the Avs. He has to be up there for most losses in the first 200 games for a player. At least in the modern era.
he also has to be up there for worst effort.

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01-26-2017, 01:07 AM
  #66
AMDZen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Patrick Roy was actually a good NHL coach.
No doubt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crocket View Post
Roy was amazing. They played way above their ability. Past the 1st line they are a borderline AHL team.
What's weird is that I don't think even 10% of Avs fans on HF agree. I feel like I am among religious fundamentalists sometimes. It's one thing to believe how bad Roy was when we thought he could have been doing a better job, but in the aftermath of his exit, and the overwhelming evidence that he was doing a pretty good job with what he had, it's actually quite amazing that the narrative continues.

The team last year was equally bad to the team this season, and yet we were in the playoff race all the way up to a week or two before the end. His first season was almost miraculous to have done what he did. They didn't deserve to be in the playoffs much less win the most difficult division in the league. And yet, Roy was the problem. Oh well. He left and he seems to have been justified in doing so. He'll get another shot if he wants it, and he'll prove he can do it

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01-26-2017, 01:12 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mint View Post
MacKinnon is no franchise player.
I'm gunna have to disagree with you there. I think people would be better off saving the pitchforks for someone older than 21.

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01-26-2017, 01:12 AM
  #68
AMDZen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau View Post
Grigorenko went from a tank Buffalo team to the Avs. He has to be up there for most losses in the first 200 games for a player. At least in the modern era.
Grigorenko was making strides under Roy. You could basically see improvements from one game to the next. Yet another thing Roy doesn't get any credit for and frankly, I believe was almost entirely his doing. Grigos biggest supporters on the Avs board are also some of Roy's biggest haters so.... Figure that one out.

Grigo doesn't even give af and neither does most of the team, nor should they really. Their coach is a mouth breather and I wouldn't bother either.

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01-26-2017, 01:15 AM
  #69
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Individual talent isn't the main problem. The problem is that the individual players don't play as a team. That poor coaching was ingrained in them years ago (Sacco and Roy). It's hard to reverse now without completely starting over.

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01-26-2017, 01:20 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mint View Post
MacKinnon is no franchise player.
Mackinnon (and maybe Rantanen) is the only one I'd not consider trading if I were the GM and in "blow it up" mode.

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01-26-2017, 01:20 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Not possible. He was amazing leader in Calgary.
Being a nice guy doesn't make you a great leader.

He had a Cinderella run where he failed in the final few games and then did nothing.

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01-26-2017, 01:21 AM
  #72
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It's a combination of things.

First problem is they didn't draft well over the last 8 or 9 drafts and so the number of good depth players as well as draft "finds" past the first round in those drafts are less then the number of fingers the average person has on one hand. See: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005307.html .
You can't compete in this league if you aren't finding enough good players at the draft beyond the first round. It is common for teams to have bad draft year but when your team hasn't been able to draft well past the first round since 2009 that's a long term problem which is truly showing now.

As a result of the first problem they have had to rely on free agency signing and trades with other teams (sacrificing the future often in the form of picks / prospect in an already limited pool) to fill in roster holes as they didn't have the depth to fill in those numerous holes internally via prospects. Many of those players acquired simply didn't plan out or came at a high price.

Their biggest hole is on the defensive end ... it's difficult to win as a team when at best you have 3 D man that are of nhl caliber and 3 others that are of questionable nhl value or aren't likely to improve all that much. This type of defensive problem is simply unlikely to be filled anytime soon. They also have a massive hole in their forward depth which will be easier to fix but is a challenge on its own. About the only good thing they have going for them is they have a goalie that has shown he can be a starter in this league but the dangerous thing is that if they don't address the defense they could end up destroying him as well.

Ultimately I have to wonder just what type of changes the avalanche have made to personal especially scouting and player development given their drafting and development record to date. This is the type of organization where a complete rebuild could very well happen.

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01-26-2017, 01:23 AM
  #73
Homesick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Jones View Post
McJesus has taken them from the ashes, can the Avs find a messiah as well??
He's McJesus but he still only plays about a 1/3 of the game, doesn't play defense(like Sekera, Larsson, Russell, and a full season of Klefbom) nor goal(Talbot is 4th in SV% among starters).

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01-26-2017, 01:28 AM
  #74
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- Their goaltending has been inconsistent
- They have zero top-4 defensemen as Johnson is hurt
- Their captain is only good at throwing temper tantrums and trying to injure people

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01-26-2017, 01:34 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
It's the fans' fault. Not only do they willingly pay some of the highest ticket prices in the league, but they also clamor for the greatness of yesteryear, which is why Sakic and Roy got their jobs. No other fanbase lives more in the past, and no other fanbase is more homely. It's completely on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennessy View Post
We're not prom queens, but we look alright.
This cracked me up

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