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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Lebrun: Canes Owner Willing To Sell Entire Team

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01-28-2017, 12:51 PM
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Cor
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Lebrun: Canes Owner Willing To Sell Entire Team


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01-28-2017, 12:54 PM
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01-28-2017, 12:56 PM
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Can't believe it took him this long to figure out. Nobody is going to give out a giant pile of money for partial ownership.

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01-28-2017, 01:01 PM
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Quebec here we come!

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01-28-2017, 01:01 PM
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Quebec here we come!
That didn't take long.

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01-28-2017, 01:14 PM
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Good news for QC.

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01-28-2017, 01:29 PM
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Not ready plane watch yet.

But this is another cog in the wheel turning. First thoughts of selling and keeping control but in no hurry.

After a couple years of no takers, report out that he's open to relo offers and the team responsds: We're not moving and not actively selling....yet they're still for sale....all very true.

Last month, Karmanos is no longer part of the executive committee.

Now today - same day as the BoG meeting, open to selling it all.

Some say price is the barrier, others say it's keeping control holding this up. Well if he's open to removing the later, then it's time for local hopefuls to show the previous is not the issue.

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01-28-2017, 01:35 PM
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OK... but at what price? Will he set the bar so high that it simply doesnt make sense for a local purchase then try to force the NHL to allow him to sell off-market or what?

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01-28-2017, 01:42 PM
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I see at as bad news for Quebec (and very good news for our Carolina friends). I thought him wanting to maintain control was the biggest hurdle to a local buyer. I guess that should open the door for local buyers, right?

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01-28-2017, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post
I see at as bad news for Quebec (and very good news for our Carolina friends). I thought him wanting to maintain control was the biggest hurdle to a local buyer. I guess that should open the door for local buyers, right?
are there local buyers?

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01-28-2017, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post
I see at as bad news for Quebec (and very good news for our Carolina friends). I thought him wanting to maintain control was the biggest hurdle to a local buyer. I guess that should open the door for local buyers, right?
Nah...if a local group or someone would have been willing to buy without Karmanos, it would have been done by now. I highly doubt that Karmanos decided just last night that he's open to sell without sticking around.

The biggest burden is the NHL. Karmanos can't sell (much less relocate) without the NHL's approvement. Getting the approval to sell is one thing but relocating is a whole other ball park. The good news here is Quebec just had all the "papers" filled out, with market studies and all so that would be much quicker than relocating to an out-of-the-blue city.

Karmanos needs money, I don't believe that he cares at this point where the team will play after the transaction.

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01-28-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post
I see at as bad news for Quebec (and very good news for our Carolina friends). I thought him wanting to maintain control was the biggest hurdle to a local buyer. I guess that should open the door for local buyers, right?
I see it as its all but done in Carolina if there was a local group they would have bought the team by now.

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01-28-2017, 02:16 PM
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Daximus
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With the way things have been going I feel like Carolina to Quebec was agreed upon behind closed doors long ago and everyone has just been playing there part to look like they put in some effort to keep the team there.
It would not surprise me in the least to find out there has been an agreement in place for awhile now.

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01-28-2017, 02:37 PM
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A serious reporter who has been breaking news has been saying since last summer (from supposed sources in Toronto) that sale and relocation out of Carolina is a done deal behind closed doors in the NHL.

I am far from convinced. As this sounds like Alex Jones kinda talk.

However, of course the current train of news to me really looks like Karmanos has now put all the cards on the table. And if he can't find a local buyer "soon", even with the whole team on the line, it'll be "all she wrote" for the Carolina Hurricanes in Raleigh. Atlanta style.

Of course, the question is" what is "soon"? 6 months? A year and a half? Two years and a half? The death of Karmanos? The NHL buys the team from Karmanos and drags it's rotting corpse around the NHL circuit for a decade+ on a shoe-string budget like the Coyotes?


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01-28-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
With the way things have been going I feel like Carolina to Quebec was agreed upon behind closed doors long ago and everyone has just been playing there part to look like they put in some effort to keep the team there.
It would not surprise me in the least to find out there has been an agreement in place for awhile now.
Reason why I agree with you:

Before the expansion

"But...Mr. Bettman if Quebec submits an application, there will be East/West imbalance"

Bettman: It won't be a factor.


Quebec submits $2M application...the league makes deep market studies and all that stuff


Time to announce expansion teams

Bettman: Well Quebec is fine, market and arena are fine, but you know, because of the East/West imbalance, we can't give them a team!


Riiiight. Like they didn't know the imbalance thing before accepting the non-refundable $2M fee and studying the market.


Last edited by Balthazar: 01-28-2017 at 03:06 PM.
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01-28-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post
I see at as bad news for Quebec (and very good news for our Carolina friends). I thought him wanting to maintain control was the biggest hurdle to a local buyer. I guess that should open the door for local buyers, right?
At this point, surrendering partial control could also function as a bargaining chip, relocation or not.

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01-28-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Acesolid View Post
A serious reporter who has been breaking news has been saying since last summer (from supposed sources in Toronto) that sale and relocation out of Carolina is a done deal behind closed doors in the NHL.

I am far from convinced. As this sounds like Alex Jones kinda talk.

However, of course the current train of news to me really looks like Karmanos has now put all the cards on the table. And if he can't find a local buyer "soon", even with the whole team on the line, it'll be "all she wrote" for the Carolina Hurricanes in Raleigh. Atlanta style.

If course, thne question is" what is "soon"? 6 months? A year and a half? Two years and a half? The death of Karmanos? The NHL buys the team from Karmanos and drags it's rotting corpse around the NHL circuit for a decade+ on a shoe-string budget like the Coyotes?
As for soon my guess is by the end of the season if no local owner can be found then that's it.

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01-28-2017, 02:58 PM
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Mortimer Snerd
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post
I see at as bad news for Quebec (and very good news for our Carolina friends). I thought him wanting to maintain control was the biggest hurdle to a local buyer. I guess that should open the door for local buyers, right?
Yes. If there are any. Next barrier is price.

Even with the low $C I would be willing to bet that QC would pay more to move them than any local billionaire would be willing to pay to keep them in Raleigh. They are simply worth more in QC because they will generate more revenue.

From the league POV it gets QC their team without increasing the East/West imbalance again. The league would also rather have the revenue from QC than what it gets from Carolina. They would not like losing the regional rivalry with the Florida teams and they would not like it from a US TV perspective. But healthy teams are better than unhealthy teams.

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01-28-2017, 03:12 PM
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Few things:

1- Relocating the Canes to Quebec means that Quebecor's money (or at least a good chunk of it) will go to Karmanos instead of the rest of the owners like it would have been through expansion. How is the rest of the league OK with that?

2- He can't really sell the team for less than what Vegas paid for the Knights otherwise it woud be extremely unfair to Bill Foley.

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01-28-2017, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Few things:

1- Relocating the Canes to Quebec means that Quebecor's money (or at least a good chunk of it) will go to Karmanos instead of the rest of the owners like it would have been through expansion. How is the rest of the league OK with that?

2- He can't really sell the team for less than what Vegas paid for the Knights otherwise it woud be extremely unfair to Bill Foley.
The owner's will get Seattle's money and a balanced league in a few years.

Unfair to Foley? If he is stupid enough to pay 500M, that's his problem. That being said, it would be surprising if the price was much lower. That's the bench mark that they tried to set.

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01-28-2017, 03:16 PM
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Mortimer Snerd
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Reason why I agree with you:

Before the expansion

"But...Mr. Bettman if Quebec submits an application, there will be East/West imbalance"

Bettman: It won't be a factor.


Quebec submits $2M application...the league makes deep market studies and all that stuff


Time to announce expansion teams

Bettman: Well Quebec is fine, market and arena are fine, but you know, because of the East/West imbalance, we can't give them a team!


Riiiight. Like they didn't know the imbalance thing before accepting the non-refundable $2M fee and studying the market.
Good story but not the one I remember.

QC maintained that the falling $C would not deter them right up until it was time to put up the money - about 650mil $C at that time, give or take a bit. They then said they were putting their bid on hold. Note:Not withdrawn and not rejected by the league.

Does not affect the Carolina situation. They are still well set up to step in and save the franchise.

It all looks to near perfect. How can this not happen? Karmanos will continue to look for local buyers until the season is over. Then the sale and relocation will be announced. That is if anything is done to make sense. After the Phoenix saga anything is possible.

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01-28-2017, 03:23 PM
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The LEAGUE put Quebec's bid on hold, not QUEBECOR.

I don't know why so many people insist that QUEBECOR backed down. Officially, it is a LEAGUE decision. Behind closed doors, who knows.

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01-28-2017, 03:30 PM
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Mortimer Snerd
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Few things:

1- Relocating the Canes to Quebec means that Quebecor's money (or at least a good chunk of it) will go to Karmanos instead of the rest of the owners like it would have been through expansion. How is the rest of the league OK with that?

2- He can't really sell the team for less than what Vegas paid for the Knights otherwise it woud be extremely unfair to Bill Foley.
Foley knew what the teams in the league were valued at. In Forbes latest list 18 existing teams are below his price. Does that mean none of them are allowed to sell until after Foley sells out at a loss?

Hurricanes are valued at 230 mil. Add on a 225 mil relocation fee (7.5 mil in the pocket of every other owner, including Foley) for a total of 455 mil. That is still about 600 mil $C, probably close to the top of what Quebecor is willing to pay. The owners get to pocket that 7.5 mil each without having to go through the pain of an expansion draft or having to reserve a high draft pick for the newcomer. Not bad for nothing.

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01-28-2017, 03:31 PM
  #24
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Just get a deal done.

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Old
01-28-2017, 03:33 PM
  #25
Balthazar
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Good story but not the one I remember.

QC maintained that the falling $C would not deter them right up until it was time to put up the money - about 650mil $C at that time, give or take a bit. They then said they were putting their bid on hold.
You remember wrong because it never happened. Quebec officially maintained its bid until the end. League's official reasons to deny the bid were "conference imbalance" and the CDN dollar, which was ridiculous because they knew that before accepting the bid.


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