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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Lebrun: Canes Owner Willing To Sell Entire Team

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Old
01-28-2017, 03:37 PM
  #26
Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Yes. If there are any. Next barrier is price.

Even with the low $C I would be willing to bet that QC would pay more to move them than any local billionaire would be willing to pay to keep them in Raleigh. They are simply worth more in QC because they will generate more revenue.

From the league POV it gets QC their team without increasing the East/West imbalance again. The league would also rather have the revenue from QC than what it gets from Carolina. They would not like losing the regional rivalry with the Florida teams and they would not like it from a US TV perspective. But healthy teams are better than unhealthy teams.
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Good story but not the one I remember.

QC maintained that the falling $C would not deter them right up until it was time to put up the money - about 650mil $C at that time, give or take a bit. They then said they were putting their bid on hold. Note:Not withdrawn and not rejected by the league.

Does not affect the Carolina situation. They are still well set up to step in and save the franchise.

It all looks to near perfect. How can this not happen? Karmanos will continue to look for local buyers until the season is over. Then the sale and relocation will be announced. That is if anything is done to make sense. After the Phoenix saga anything is possible.
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Foley knew what the teams in the league were valued at. In Forbes latest list 18 existing teams are below his price. Does that mean none of them are allowed to sell until after Foley sells out at a loss?

Hurricanes are valued at 230 mil. Add on a 225 mil relocation fee (7.5 mil in the pocket of every other owner, including Foley) for a total of 455 mil. That is still about 600 mil $C, probably close to the top of what Quebecor is willing to pay. The owners get to pocket that 7.5 mil each without having to go through the pain of an expansion draft or having to reserve a high draft pick for the newcomer. Not bad for nothing.
Why would you even want the Hurricanes? They're not good and besides Hartford should get first crack if anything. Wait for expansion and call them the Nordiques.

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01-28-2017, 03:39 PM
  #27
Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
You remember wrong because it never happened. Quebec officially maintained its bid until the end. League's official and sole reasons to deny the bid was "conference imbalance" and the CDN dollar, which was ridiculous because they knew that before accepting the bid.
exactly
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/nhl-rejec...urce-1.2945264
Quebec City has a strong bid for expansion, but owners have expressed concerns about the strength of the Canadian dollar and a geographical imbalance if they add another team to the Eastern Conference, which currently has 16 teams to the West's 14.

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01-28-2017, 03:40 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Few things:

1- Relocating the Canes to Quebec means that Quebecor's money (or at least a good chunk of it) will go to Karmanos instead of the rest of the owners like it would have been through expansion. How is the rest of the league OK with that?
I don't see why that's necessarily the case if the rest of the league hasn't been promised an expansion to Quebec in the near future. If Carolina is forced to relocate, any new owner's money inevitably goes to Karmanos (or at least a good chunk of it like you say) rather than the rest of the league.


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Old
01-28-2017, 03:47 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Scandale du Jour View Post
I see at as bad news for Quebec (and very good news for our Carolina friends). I thought him wanting to maintain control was the biggest hurdle to a local buyer. I guess that should open the door for local buyers, right?
I'm sure there will be a long list of buyers wishing to invest in a non-hockey market (willing to lose a pile of money) where playing at 50% of capacity is looked at as a positive!

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01-28-2017, 03:50 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Why would you even want the Hurricanes? They're not good and besides Hartford should get first crack if anything. Wait for expansion and call them the Nordiques.
Ever look at Hartford's demographics? Sorry but no pro is ever going there, end of story.

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01-28-2017, 03:54 PM
  #31
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Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I don't read anything into this beyond an acknowledgement that Karmanos' original sale conditions were unreasonable.

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01-28-2017, 03:54 PM
  #32
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funy how people were angry with the chargers moving but don't have problem with Carolina moving. MOD


Last edited by Fugu: 01-28-2017 at 04:19 PM. Reason: w//o the flaming please
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01-28-2017, 04:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Why would you even want the Hurricanes? They're not good and besides Hartford should get first crack if anything. Wait for expansion and call them the Nordiques.
You'd rather have an expansion team instead of an already established team with a young and talented core? I mean, if you'd rather have your pick of bad contracts and bottom 6 players instead of the likes of Faulk, Skinner, Staal, Aho, Slavin, Rask, Hanifin, Pesce, Teravainen etc., then be my guest.

And as much as I would love to see Hartford get a team back, it's just not happening. Ever.

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01-28-2017, 04:04 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I don't read anything into this beyond an acknowledgement that Karmanos' original sale conditions were unreasonable.
Of course that's all it is, but some people desperately want the 'Canes to move to QC so they'll twist any little bit of news to make it seem like it's imminent. Anyone with half a brain knew that Karmanos asking for $400M + keeping control of the team was ridiculous. I still think his $400M evaluation is a bit out there, but now if he's willing to just sell it and go away, it maybe brings some other people to the negotiation table aside from Quebecor.

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01-28-2017, 04:10 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Few things:

1- Relocating the Canes to Quebec means that Quebecor's money (or at least a good chunk of it) will go to Karmanos instead of the rest of the owners like it would have been through expansion. How is the rest of the league OK with that?

2- He can't really sell the team for less than what Vegas paid for the Knights otherwise it would be extremely unfair to Bill Foley.
1. They will charge a relocation fee like they did with the Jets. Back then it was $60 mil. They may ask for a bit more this time.

2. Foley knew what he was getting himself into and if he didn't he's an idiot. He paid waaaayy above market value for his team and I seriously doubt his team will ever be worth $300 mil. I don't think the NHL ever wanted an Eastern Expansion team because of the alignment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Hurricanes are valued at 230 mil. Add on a 225 mil relocation fee (7.5 mil in the pocket of every other owner, including Foley) for a total of 455 mil. That is still about 600 mil $C, probably close to the top of what Quebecor is willing to pay. The owners get to pocket that 7.5 mil each without having to go through the pain of an expansion draft or having to reserve a high draft pick for the newcomer. Not bad for nothing.

I think Quebecor will pay $300 mil for the team and another $100 for relo fee. $225 seems waay to high considering TSNE only paid $60 mil just 6 years ago. I think Quebecor would prefer a relo team anyways. Carolina has a decent pool of young players and with a larger budget than Carolina had can compete much sooner than Vegas will.

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01-28-2017, 04:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Brock Anton View Post
Of course that's all it is, but some people desperately want the 'Canes to move to QC so they'll twist any little bit of news to make it seem like it's imminent. Anyone with half a brain knew that Karmanos asking for $400M + keeping control of the team was ridiculous. I still think his $400M evaluation is a bit out there, but now if he's willing to just sell it and go away, it maybe brings some other people to the negotiation table aside from Quebecor.
I don't think he will get $400 million more around $350 million.

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01-28-2017, 04:14 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by joelef View Post
funy how people were angry with the chargers moving but don't have problem with Carolina moving. MOD
This is not the owner moving the team, if nobody wants to own the team in Carolina is he suppose to be stuck owning a team losing money?


Last edited by garnetpalmetto: 01-28-2017 at 10:51 PM. Reason: QEP
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Old
01-28-2017, 04:17 PM
  #38
Brock Anton
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I don't think he will get $400 million more around $350 million.
I don't even think he'll get that. Maybe $300M.

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Old
01-28-2017, 04:24 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Few things:

1- Relocating the Canes to Quebec means that Quebecor's money (or at least a good chunk of it) will go to Karmanos instead of the rest of the owners like it would have been through expansion. How is the rest of the league OK with that?

2- He can't really sell the team for less than what Vegas paid for the Knights otherwise it woud be extremely unfair to Bill Foley.
It won't be sold as that. It'll be sold as "expansion due to the cost and exchange rate wasn't really an option", however buying an existing team is cheaper and thus something Quebecor can handle a little better and it removes the conference imbalance. I mean we all know that's BS due to the fact that the exchange rate was almost the same from when the application was put in and when the decision was made, and that the league said conf imbalance wouldn't be an issue when the app was put in. But that's how it'll be sold. That and "there's no one who wants to keep the team in Raleigh", thus a new venue needed to be found.

But yeah, big difference in getting a 500m cheque and getting a 60m+ cheque.

All that said... I don't see this team moving any time soon.

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Old
01-28-2017, 04:26 PM
  #40
Daximus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Anton View Post
Of course that's all it is, but some people desperately want the 'Canes to move to QC so they'll twist any little bit of news to make it seem like it's imminent. Anyone with half a brain knew that Karmanos asking for $400M + keeping control of the team was ridiculous. I still think his $400M evaluation is a bit out there, but now if he's willing to just sell it and go away, it maybe brings some other people to the negotiation table aside from Quebecor.
I hardly doubt any of those additional people at the table will be in Carolina.

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01-28-2017, 04:36 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar View Post
Few things:

1- Relocating the Canes to Quebec means that Quebecor's money (or at least a good chunk of it) will go to Karmanos instead of the rest of the owners like it would have been through expansion. How is the rest of the league OK with that?

2- He can't really sell the team for less than what Vegas paid for the Knights otherwise it woud be extremely unfair to Bill Foley.
The rest of the owners will be okay with it because they know that the NHL is prepared to play the "waiting game" with Seattle in terms of an arena finally being completed. Once there's an arena in either Sodo or some other Seattle suburb, the "NHL to Seattle| is a done deal and the owners will capitalize financially just like they did with Vegas. Then QC gets a team and the conferences are parallel. The NHL knows that the Seattle market is the one US market worth waiting for both geography wise and potential rivalry wise.

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01-28-2017, 04:45 PM
  #42
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I'll just leave this right here....to be totally trashed and ignored...


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01-28-2017, 04:49 PM
  #43
Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Ever look at Hartford's demographics? Sorry but no pro is ever going there, end of story.
Yeah and given that its bigger then Quebec and Winnpeg and in the richest state in the union I would say they have a pretty good shot. Besides both them and Winnipeg had the same attendance when both had teams. Quebec did better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Anton View Post
You'd rather have an expansion team instead of an already established team with a young and talented core? I mean, if you'd rather have your pick of bad contracts and bottom 6 players instead of the likes of Faulk, Skinner, Staal, Aho, Slavin, Rask, Hanifin, Pesce, Teravainen etc., then be my guest.

And as much as I would love to see Hartford get a team back, it's just not happening. Ever.
I want Carolina to stay in Carolina, work out a deal. If not then back to Hartford. I don't want QC saddled with this franchise. The new Nordiques will draft early and get similar talent through the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelef View Post
funy how people were angry with the chargers moving but don't have problem with Carolina moving. MOD
San Diego was one of the worst markets and a lot of people didn't have a problem with them moving. Don't stereotype.

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01-28-2017, 04:50 PM
  #44
Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by NotOpie View Post
I'll just leave this right here....to be totally trashed and ignored...

I don't want them to move, but he said this about Atlanta, he said about Quebec too. And if not for IA he would be saying this as the coyotes ran off to Portland, Houston or Oklahoma City.

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01-28-2017, 04:59 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by NotOpie View Post
I'll just leave this right here....to be totally trashed and ignored...

I mean, why wouldn't he say that, either way?

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01-28-2017, 04:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by joelef View Post
funy how people were angry with the chargers moving but don't have problem with Carolina moving. MOD
That's cause

1. Football is an American sport

2. There's gonna be like 5 teams in LA

As far as Hartford, it's not science-fiction, it's the real World. As far as population, it should be the last place the NHL place should look as far as American expansion/relocation. I would try Indianapolis, personally.

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01-28-2017, 05:10 PM
  #47
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I'll just leave this right here....to be totally trashed and ignored...

Well the Canes scored 126 goals since start of the season. For a team not moving, they are doing quite good.

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01-28-2017, 05:20 PM
  #48
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It's really happening guys, it should be obvious at this point. Canes are moving to Québec. I would bet a lot on that. Laraque deserves credit for this, he was the first to announce both that only LV would get an expansion team and that Canes will move to Québec. He has his sources for sure.

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01-28-2017, 05:41 PM
  #49
Melrose Munch
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
That's cause

1. Football is an American sport

2. There's gonna be like 5 teams in LA

As far as Hartford, it's not science-fiction, it's the real World. As far as population, it should be the last place the NHL place should look as far as American expansion/relocation. I would try Indianapolis, personally.
1. You don't watch any other sports?

2. It was an important story.

Hartford is bigger then Quebec too.

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01-28-2017, 05:53 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
1. You don't watch any other sports?

2. It was an important story.

Hartford is bigger then Quebec too.
Without a new arena I don't think the NHL will approve a move to Hartford any time soon.

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