HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Let's talk about movies (and TV shows)... Part XVI

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-13-2017, 06:08 PM
  #101
peate
Good grief!
 
peate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostriver View Post
I have not seen Arrival yet, but Revenant was nothing to write home about. Have you seen 'Tzameti' & 'L'Heritage'? Those are good movies.
There are a lot of great foreign movies that go unnoticed for obvious reasons. It's always a pleasure to stumble upon one. As far as Arrival and Hacksaw Ridge goes, I enjoyed both of them and apparently so did the Academy of Motion Pictures. I also liked Lion but Manchester by the sea I couldn't finish.

Tastes in movies, music, art, etc... can never be debated cause it's all personal preference.

Pink Floyd eats Rush for breakfast.

peate is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 06:26 PM
  #102
mitchmagic
Registered User
 
mitchmagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Iceland
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to mitchmagic
Quote:
Originally Posted by peate View Post
There are a lot of great foreign movies that go unnoticed for obvious reasons. It's always a pleasure to stumble upon one. As far as Arrival and Hacksaw Ridge goes, I enjoyed both of them and apparently so did the Academy of Motion Pictures. I also liked Lion but Manchester by the sea I couldn't finish.

Tastes in movies, music, art, etc... can never be debated cause it's all personal preference.

Pink Floyd eats Rush for breakfast.
I think there is such thing as objectively bad and good films -- that this is something that can be measured.

mitchmagic is online now  
Old
02-13-2017, 06:48 PM
  #103
peate
Good grief!
 
peate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchmagic View Post
I think there is such thing as objectively bad and good films -- that this is something that can be measured.
Of course. Take The Godfather for example, I think everyone can agree it's a superb film, one of the all time greats, not much to debate on that one, but I'm certain someone somewhere didn't like it. If Goodkiwi and myself liked Arrival, but you and some other posters found it bad, whose opinion matters? Neither one really, to each their own.

peate is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 06:50 PM
  #104
Lebowski
El Duderino
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,182
vCash: 500
I think it's fair for someone to say he or she didn't like Arrival, but to claim it's a bad movie is different.

I don't see how you could possibly label it as a bad film.

Lebowski is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 07:38 PM
  #105
mitchmagic
Registered User
 
mitchmagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Iceland
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to mitchmagic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
I think it's fair for someone to say he or she didn't like Arrival, but to claim it's a bad movie is different.

I don't see how you could possibly label it as a bad film.
Relies too heavily on convenience -- the entire denouement is resolved in one phone call.

Poor character development.

This idea, aside from the linguistics, was done far better in Slaughterhouse 5.

There is no real conflict because they go from "we know nothing" to "we can talk with them now" so quickly.

Doesn't delve deep into anything -- only scratches the surface of linguistics and communication. It's like they consulted a linguistics undergrad.

Nice effects and cinematography, though.

mitchmagic is online now  
Old
02-13-2017, 07:39 PM
  #106
Ozymandias
#firebergevin
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,549
vCash: 500
Went to see The Founder yesterday. Pretty good for a biopic. Me want some more Keaton in major roles. Such a good actor.

Ozymandias is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 07:50 PM
  #107
deandebean
Registered User
 
deandebean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau
Country: uriname
Posts: 15,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Went to see The Founder yesterday. Pretty good for a biopic. Me want some more Keaton in major roles. Such a good actor.
Question: why was it called The Founder, when the restaurant existed before him? Are they talking about him creating the franchise concept? Inquiring minds want to know.

deandebean is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 07:50 PM
  #108
Carey Chant
Registered User
 
Carey Chant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 776
vCash: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Went to see The Founder yesterday. Pretty good for a biopic. Me want some more Keaton in major roles. Such a good actor.
Founder tennis court montage was golden. Really good movie & Keaton rules.

As for Arrival its the squid monsters from Galaxy Quest doing Rorschach tests. Could have been good but was painfully slow.

Carey Chant is online now  
Old
02-13-2017, 09:15 PM
  #109
GoodKiwi
Registered User
 
GoodKiwi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Georgia
Posts: 14,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostriver View Post
I have not seen Arrival yet, but Revenant was nothing to write home about. Have you seen 'Tzameti' & 'L'Heritage'? Those are good movies.
The Revenant is my favorite movie of all time. I discussed why at great length in these threads.

As far as the other two title you mentioned...no, I haven't seen them. To be honest I don't like foreign films all that much as I feel there's way too much that gets lost in translation typically.

GoodKiwi is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 09:21 PM
  #110
GoodKiwi
Registered User
 
GoodKiwi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Georgia
Posts: 14,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by peate View Post
Of course. Take The Godfather for example, I think everyone can agree it's a superb film, one of the all time greats, not much to debate on that one, but I'm certain someone somewhere didn't like it. If Goodkiwi and myself liked Arrival, but you and some other posters found it bad, whose opinion matters? Neither one really, to each their own.
I couldn't disagree more.

Movies are art and therefore cannot be labeled as good or bad uniformly. Not by me anyhow. What I can objectively nitpick at are certain technical flaws such as bad sound/video editing, lighting, etc. Those are qualities that can be debated without taking into account how said production affected its viewer as a whole.

GoodKiwi is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 09:26 PM
  #111
GoodKiwi
Registered User
 
GoodKiwi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Georgia
Posts: 14,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
I think it's fair for someone to say he or she didn't like Arrival, but to claim it's a bad movie is different.

I don't see how you could possibly label it as a bad film.
Because it's not a bad film. It's quite the opposite in fact, it's a movie that is generally regarded very highly. Not that it matters to me when forming my own opinion.

It has one noticeable flaw that I commented on in my OP. Outside of that it is a very competent film that felt very fresh.

I am not here to convince everyone it's a masterpiece. I can only base my opinion on my personal viewing experience. And that was very enjoyable. As enjoyable as anything I can remember recently.

GoodKiwi is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 10:03 PM
  #112
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 16,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchmagic View Post

There is no real conflict because they go from "we know nothing" to "we can talk with them now" so quickly.
No.

What they're doing in this movie, which is not typically done in Hollywood, is showing things (in this case learning language) how they actually might work. It's a process and yes it builds as a logistic growth curve for some time, where it starts off really slow and then accelerates. That's exactly how babies learn language too.

Denis Villeneuve, the screenwriter, etc did not learn this from watching other movies. They had to get inspiration from the real world, as they've added something to the film cannon which was not previously there, or at least is not there recently. Edit: Europa Report has this too.

It also wasn't quick, it took dozens of minutes in movie time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchmagic View Post
This idea, aside from the linguistics, was done far better in Slaughterhouse 5.
Arrival is about language.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
02-13-2017, 10:22 PM
  #113
mitchmagic
Registered User
 
mitchmagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Iceland
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to mitchmagic
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
No.

What they're doing in this movie, which is not typically done in Hollywood, is showing things (in this case learning language) how they actually might work. It's a process and yes it builds as a logistic growth curve for some time, where it starts off really slow and then accelerates. That's exactly how babies learn language too.

Denis Villeneuve, the screenwriter, etc did not learn this from watching other movies. They had to get inspiration from the real world, as they've added something to the film cannon which was not previously there, or at least is not there recently. Edit: Europa Report has this too.

It also wasn't quick, it took dozens of minutes in movie time.


Arrival is about language.
I'm talking about experiencing time as the aliens experience it -- which is what the film's form is structured around. It's as much about language as it is about the main character's new experience of time.

mitchmagic is online now  
Old
02-13-2017, 10:22 PM
  #114
Brainiac
Registered Offender
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 12,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
I think it's fair for someone to say he or she didn't like Arrival, but to claim it's a bad movie is different.

I don't see how you could possibly label it as a bad film.
True, and you could say that about a whole lot of movies.

You don't like it. Fine. But at least be a little objective and admit that it was a decent piece of work.

I hate Celine Dion's music, but I have absolutely no problem saying she's a great singer.

Brainiac is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 01:55 AM
  #115
Lebowski
El Duderino
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodKiwi View Post
Because it's not a bad film. It's quite the opposite in fact, it's a movie that is generally regarded very highly. Not that it matters to me when forming my own opinion.

It has one noticeable flaw that I commented on in my OP. Outside of that it is a very competent film that felt very fresh.

I am not here to convince everyone it's a masterpiece. I can only base my opinion on my personal viewing experience. And that was very enjoyable. As enjoyable as anything I can remember recently.
Most of Arrival's critics seem to point at its slow pacing as one of its major flaws, and I never, not even once, felt like the movie was lacking pace.

That's part of subjectivity when it comes to judging films. I get that you can objectively argue a film to be bad based on acting, script or overall cinematography, but the idea of a movie being too slow is a very relative one.

Lebowski is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 02:05 AM
  #116
sdf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Rostov on Don
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
I have to ask to persons here who is 30 + yo. What is a series, that there was two cops, white and black, white guy called grady and he is a master martial arts. Watched it as a kid

sdf is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 02:49 AM
  #117
Spearmint Rhino
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdf View Post
I have to ask to persons here who is 30 + yo. What is a series, that there was two cops, white and black, white guy called grady and he is a master martial arts. Watched it as a kid
Street Justice?

Spearmint Rhino is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 03:10 AM
  #118
Spearmint Rhino
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodKiwi View Post
Because it's not a bad film. It's quite the opposite in fact, it's a movie that is generally regarded very highly. Not that it matters to me when forming my own opinion.

It has one noticeable flaw that I commented on in my OP. Outside of that it is a very competent film that felt very fresh.

I am not here to convince everyone it's a masterpiece. I can only base my opinion on my personal viewing experience. And that was very enjoyable. As enjoyable as anything I can remember recently.
I am not a film expert (my wife's the one with the degree in film, she was asleep 30 minutes into it) so when I judge a film it's based solely on it's entertainment value to me and could/would I recommend it to someone else and could/would I watch it again.

I like films that stimulate the senses and evoke emotions towards the characters.

Bonus points if you can do both and come up with a new idea on top of that.

IMO

Arrival checked the box somewhat on the senses but unfortunately the pace cancelled that out

I couldn't of cared less to what happened to any of the characters - not sure if that was 100% on development/script or the casting so they missed me on that one completely

They had a somewhat new idea

Again my opinion based strictly on being entertained or tortured for 2 hrs, for me it was the latter

Spearmint Rhino is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 03:16 AM
  #119
sdf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Rostov on Don
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spearmint Rhino View Post
Street Justice?
Oh my god, yes!!! It's like traval on time machine

sdf is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 08:59 AM
  #120
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 16,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spearmint Rhino View Post
I am not a film expert (my wife's the one with the degree in film, she was asleep 30 minutes into it) so when I judge a film it's based solely on it's entertainment value to me and could/would I recommend it to someone else and could/would I watch it again.

I like films that stimulate the senses and evoke emotions towards the characters.

Bonus points if you can do both and come up with a new idea on top of that.

IMO

Arrival checked the box somewhat on the senses but unfortunately the pace cancelled that out

I couldn't of cared less to what happened to any of the characters - not sure if that was 100% on development/script or the casting so they missed me on that one completely

They had a somewhat new idea

Again my opinion based strictly on being entertained or tortured for 2 hrs, for me it was the latter
Louise is a very non-standard character for movies. She solves issues slowly, by thinking, has a very process oriented mindset, she's totally atypical. An acquaintance described her as being a feminine hero, in contrast to female heroes with masculine traits like Sarah Connor. In general most of the people I know who loved Louise are women. I didn't love her. I did appreciate her as a scientist as we virtually never see proper scientists in movies, only puerile caricatures of scientists.

I agree that it wasn't great as an action movie and as popular science fiction. It's not like The Force Awakens or Star Trek Beyond, Arrival is a movie that's watched for the ideas.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 09:34 AM
  #121
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 16,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Most of Arrival's critics seem to point at its slow pacing as one of its major flaws, and I never, not even once, felt like the movie was lacking pace.

That's part of subjectivity when it comes to judging films. I get that you can objectively argue a film to be bad based on acting, script or overall cinematography, but the idea of a movie being too slow is a very relative one.
Arrival is extremely slow and modern fans don't like that at all.

You'll notice the Marvel, Star Trek, and Transformers movies are very consistent in how they distribute action scenes. It never goes too long without an explosion or a car chase.

Arrival had very, very little action.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 09:44 AM
  #122
mitchmagic
Registered User
 
mitchmagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Iceland
Posts: 2,711
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to mitchmagic
You're sounding incredibly elitist DAchampion.

I know plenty of people who dug Arrival and also dig the films you listed and are what you call "modern fans." What you're saying by using the term 'modern fans' is 'dumb fans.'

Just because the pace of a film is 'slow' doesn't mean it's automatically good or interesting. I don't even think that the pace of the film is what is inherently wrong about it.

It wasn't really a fresh take on the genre, really. We've seen slow films about Alien contact numerous times in the past... even some that are widely popular. See: Close Encounters.

Fresh takes on the genre are films that really try something new... like Under the Skin or even Enemy (which I found to be the better Alien film of Villeneuve.)

Arrival has great cinematography and great effects, but a very underwhelming script.

mitchmagic is online now  
Old
02-14-2017, 09:49 AM
  #123
Bask
Embellishing User
 
Bask's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montréal
Posts: 10,403
vCash: 500
mitchmagic calling someone elitist

lol

Bask is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 09:50 AM
  #124
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 16,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchmagic View Post
You're sounding incredibly elitist DAchampion.

I know plenty of people who dug Arrival and also dig the films you listed and are what you call "modern fans." What you're saying by using the term 'modern fans' is 'dumb fans.'

Just because the pace of a film is 'slow' doesn't mean it's automatically good or interesting. I don't even think that the pace of the film is what is inherently wrong about it.

It wasn't really a fresh take on the genre, really. We've seen slow films about Alien contact numerous times in the past... even some that are widely popular. See: Close Encounters.

Fresh takes on the genre are films that really try something new... like Under the Skin or even Enemy (which I found to be the better Alien film of Villeneuve.)

Arrival has great cinematography and great effects, but a very underwhelming script.
Nothing to do with elitism. The film is indeed slow and a lot of people don't like slow films, possibly most film goers. That's just a fact. Up next: some people prefer coca cola to beer because it has more sugar. Those are the modern sensibilities. It is you who is saying that these are inherently inferior. Stop with the value judgments.

A slow pace doesn't make the film automatically good or bad, but it does mean that many viewers will be unable to watch it. Look at the box office histories. Fast-paced films do overwhelmingly better.

As for you, you're not discussing what the film is about. It's not about aliens. The film's core theme is language, aliens are a plot device, they might in fact always be plot devices in all movies. This is in fact fresh in Hollywood as alien movies right now are usually about warfare, bombs, destruction, etc. Villeneuve has specifically commented on this, he said he prefers science fiction that is about subjects other than weapons, as most Hollywood scifi is about weapons.

Close Encounters of the Third Kind is 40 years old.

It is the case that you didn't like the script, I trust your own judgment as to your own feelings. On the other hand you're not clear on what the script is about. You think it's about aliens or time travel. It's not. It's about language and how we communicate.

DAChampion is offline  
Old
02-14-2017, 09:52 AM
  #125
DAChampion
Registered User
 
DAChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 16,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bask View Post
mitchmagic calling someone elitist

lol
It was a pot kettle black moment.

I assumed that he's tired of being called elitist himself, so he's looking for opportunities to say the same to others.

For the record I'm not an elitist, there's tons of supposed "trash" that I watch and enjoy watching, and I expect most viewers do so as well. There are also good films that I didn't enjoy, I had a hard time watching the first and fourth acts of 2001 for example.

Nobody enjoys everything that's "good" and hates everything that's "bad".

DAChampion is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.