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The Official 2016/17 Tank Thread Part II: R.I.P Tank

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Old
02-01-2017, 06:39 PM
  #1
JetsFan815
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The Official 2016/17 Tank Thread Part II: R.I.P Tank

The old thread is almost at it's post limit and the tank is getting off the track. Here's hoping this new thread and its associated juju will get the tank back on track.



Last few posts from the old thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCP Guy View Post
We need Hutch back in the pipes to get the tank going again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maukkis View Post
Most of the defensemen are falling massively. Makar, Heiskanen, Foote, Hague and Välimäki were projected to go in the middle 10 in some list (TSN I guess), so it wouldn't be that bad to draft somewhere around 12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Why? You do realize he is playing against inferior competition right? Fabbro played in the BCHL last year. AFAIK it is a stronger league than AJHL. Not at all sure of that. Fabbro out produced Makar. He is also bigger FWIW. Fabbro is doing 'OK' in the NCAA but far from killing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by csk View Post
all that means is that they're not very good relative to the high end fwds of the draft class. There could easily be a run on defencemen and we end up with the worst of them (like how we got Stanley)
Quote:
Originally Posted by csk View Post
I'm not clear what you mean by this. is this your ranking?

1OA - Hischer
2OA - Makar
3OA - Patrick (or whoever you have next)
Quote:
Originally Posted by portamoral View Post
it's not as inferior as most people think, plus he's dominating to the point he looks bored when i watch him play. the alberta and BC leagues are very similar too, not a ton of difference.

fabbro is very a good player too btw, i just think makar is even better. i don't care for size much at all, 2 inches is nothing.[mod] as for out producing him, i think fabbro had better players around him like jost and a couple other 100+ point guys. it seems like makar is the entire offense himself.

guy will probably explode next year and teams will regret not taking him sooner. extremely elite skills and smarts. looks like a karlsson or subban type steal where he stands right now in the rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by portamoral View Post
1. hischier
2. makar
3. patrick
4. mittlestadt
5. liljegren

in my opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsWillFly4Ever View Post
I am officially off the tank train until further notice! Winning is more fun than losing, and the prize for losing this year isn't that great. Lets just win 9-8 so pav can stop getting these undeserved starts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Even if the AJHL is = to the BCHL it is still a VERY MUCH lower level of competition than the CHL. Even though you are watching him live you are watching him play against a bunch of kids who are way below NHL fringe prospect level. I don't think you are salting what you see enough for the level of competition. You are not the only one though FWIW.
Tank On!


Last edited by JetsFan815: 04-06-2017 at 09:05 PM.
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Old
02-01-2017, 07:50 PM
  #2
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Every couple of games I find myself saying "if we lose this one I'm in on the tank" and then we do lose it. But a few days later we're 2 or 3 points out of a playoff spot and I find myself being confused, "how are we still in it when we keep losing critical games?"


At this point I'm keeping my tank cheering to the out of town scoreboard, particularly the teams in the east.

It's not that big of a tragedy if we're in the 10-15 draft pick range, the quality of players here doesn't seem that different than the 5-10 range.

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02-01-2017, 08:50 PM
  #3
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Since I am sure the patrons of this thread don't want an Echo Chamber, I do wish to offer a contrary opinion on why hoping for losses to get a better draft pick is really anti-productive.

Imagine two scenarios.

1. Jets play well for the rest of the year, and finish with 88 points. They just miss out of the playoffs.
2. Jets fizzle out and finish with a disappointing 75 points.

While scenario 2 results in a higher draft pick, I have to ask you the simple question of what you think has happened to the team in each scenario.

For the 88 point scenario, I think Hellebuyck has turned a corner and has provided legit #1 goaltending. The young kids continue to improve. With Myers back, the defense is less leaky and the team is playing with solid fundamentals. We have quite a bit less holes than we anticipated and this very young team is trending in the right direction. Tinker a few parts and we should be playoff bound next year!

For the 75 point scenario, the Jets goaltending has crapped out and we are wondering who we need to throw millions at next year to secure competent tending. The Jets veterans are getting sick of being stuck in neutral and those a year off may not extend their contracts. The growth of a few of our young players has gone backwards and the team looks like an utter mess. Trouba is thinking that this is a failed franchise and he won't re-up to be stuck on this shlock and be buried in this outpost.

Do you really want scenario 2 to happen to get some kid who may not even crack the line-up in a couple of years? I'd like to think we're better off with a collective over-all improved, growing team than a demoralized bunch of losers that showed no spine down the stretch.

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Old
02-01-2017, 08:55 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffman View Post
Since I am sure the patrons of this thread don't want an Echo Chamber, I do wish to offer a contrary opinion on why hoping for losses to get a better draft pick is really anti-productive.

Imagine two scenarios.

1. Jets play well for the rest of the year, and finish with 88 points. They just miss out of the playoffs.
2. Jets fizzle out and finish with a disappointing 75 points.

While scenario 2 results in a higher draft pick, I have to ask you the simple question of what you think has happened to the team in each scenario.

For the 88 point scenario, I think Hellebuyck has turned a corner and has provided legit #1 goaltending. The young kids continue to improve. With Myers back, the defense is less leaky and the team is playing with solid fundamentals. We have quite a bit less holes than we anticipated and this very young team is trending in the right direction. Tinker a few parts and we should be playoff bound next year!

For the 75 point scenario, the Jets goaltending has crapped out and we are wondering who we need to throw millions at next year to secure competent tending. The Jets veterans are getting sick of being stuck in neutral and those a year off may not extend their contracts. The growth of a few of our young players has gone backwards and the team looks like an utter mess. Trouba is thinking that this is a failed franchise and he won't re-up to be stuck on this shlock and be buried in this outpost.

Do you really want scenario 2 to happen to get some kid who may not even crack the line-up in a couple of years? I'd like to think we're better off with a collective over-all improved, growing team than a demoralized bunch of losers that showed no spine down the stretch.
If scenario 2 gets some or all the coaches fired - perfect.

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Old
02-01-2017, 08:57 PM
  #5
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Well if the Jets are gonna fire PoMo now's the time to do it, go with the flow.

If not we're going to Tank it hard but win more than what is optimal, not counting on winning the Lottery twice in a row.

Bad Buff has shown up way more than good Buff, this team can't overcome Bad Buff appearances. This team is caught in a bear trap.

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02-02-2017, 07:24 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChef View Post
If scenario 2 gets some or all the coaches fired - perfect.
That's like me saying I hope Hellebuyck sucks out the rest of the year so we are dorced to get a REAL goalie.

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02-02-2017, 07:25 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffman View Post
That's like me saying I hope Hellebuyck sucks out the rest of the year so we are dorced to get a REAL goalie.
*forced :p

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02-02-2017, 07:33 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffman View Post
Since I am sure the patrons of this thread don't want an Echo Chamber, I do wish to offer a contrary opinion on why hoping for losses to get a better draft pick is really anti-productive.

Imagine two scenarios.

1. Jets play well for the rest of the year, and finish with 88 points. They just miss out of the playoffs.
2. Jets fizzle out and finish with a disappointing 75 points.

While scenario 2 results in a higher draft pick, I have to ask you the simple question of what you think has happened to the team in each scenario.

For the 88 point scenario, I think Hellebuyck has turned a corner and has provided legit #1 goaltending. The young kids continue to improve. With Myers back, the defense is less leaky and the team is playing with solid fundamentals. We have quite a bit less holes than we anticipated and this very young team is trending in the right direction. Tinker a few parts and we should be playoff bound next year!

For the 75 point scenario, the Jets goaltending has crapped out and we are wondering who we need to throw millions at next year to secure competent tending. The Jets veterans are getting sick of being stuck in neutral and those a year off may not extend their contracts. The growth of a few of our young players has gone backwards and the team looks like an utter mess. Trouba is thinking that this is a failed franchise and he won't re-up to be stuck on this shlock and be buried in this outpost.

Do you really want scenario 2 to happen to get some kid who may not even crack the line-up in a couple of years? I'd like to think we're better off with a collective over-all improved, growing team than a demoralized bunch of losers that showed no spine down the stretch.
Very well said. Totally agree. Cheering for scenario 1.

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Old
02-02-2017, 08:57 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guffman View Post
Since I am sure the patrons of this thread don't want an Echo Chamber, I do wish to offer a contrary opinion on why hoping for losses to get a better draft pick is really anti-productive.

Imagine two scenarios.

1. Jets play well for the rest of the year, and finish with 88 points. They just miss out of the playoffs.
2. Jets fizzle out and finish with a disappointing 75 points.

While scenario 2 results in a higher draft pick, I have to ask you the simple question of what you think has happened to the team in each scenario.

For the 88 point scenario, I think Hellebuyck has turned a corner and has provided legit #1 goaltending. The young kids continue to improve. With Myers back, the defense is less leaky and the team is playing with solid fundamentals. We have quite a bit less holes than we anticipated and this very young team is trending in the right direction. Tinker a few parts and we should be playoff bound next year!

For the 75 point scenario, the Jets goaltending has crapped out and we are wondering who we need to throw millions at next year to secure competent tending. The Jets veterans are getting sick of being stuck in neutral and those a year off may not extend their contracts. The growth of a few of our young players has gone backwards and the team looks like an utter mess. Trouba is thinking that this is a failed franchise and he won't re-up to be stuck on this shlock and be buried in this outpost.

Do you really want scenario 2 to happen to get some kid who may not even crack the line-up in a couple of years? I'd like to think we're better off with a collective over-all improved, growing team than a demoralized bunch of losers that showed no spine down the stretch.
If you really wanted you could trade that pick with a player for someone who will make an impact

Either way one of these central teams is gonna get better by not making it to the playoffs. They're all so close to each other
Predators, Dallas, winnipeg, blues

We make it, they don't, they getter better with a better draft pick and we stay the same. Management problems and so-so draft picks(aka not the best)

We're not gonna be any worse if we don't make it. We're not gonna be any better making it either
Our teams a 50/50 team. There will always be question marks

2018-19 is our big season. A top 5 draft pick now could help by then

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Old
02-02-2017, 09:06 AM
  #10
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Brian Little won't help by then. Blake wheelers on an expiring co tractor by then.

Enstrom a UFA by then.

Dustin bydugliens 35 by then.

If that's all we care about what are we doing with four of our highest valued assets? Just putting them in the fire and watching them burn?

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02-02-2017, 09:26 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Brian Little won't help by then. Blake wheelers on an expiring co tractor by then.

Enstrom a UFA by then.

Dustin bydugliens 35 by then.

If that's all we care about what are we doing with four of our highest valued assets? Just putting them in the fire and watching them burn?
-In two years bryan little won't help? OK
-I've been saying the Jets should trade buff years ago
-Enstrom being a UFA is a non issue

Wheeler should be traded to a better team. Guy deserves better
He's gonna decline harder than little I think

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02-02-2017, 09:36 AM
  #12
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Littles UFA. No guarantee he has an inkling to resign if we bottom out this year and are mediocre next year.

Would you resign. To a discounted deal to a team that's made the playoffs once in 7 years and finished bottom 10 the last two years?

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02-02-2017, 09:38 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny HFBOARDS View Post
Well if the Jets are gonna fire PoMo now's the time to do it, go with the flow.

If not we're going to Tank it hard but win more than what is optimal, not counting on winning the Lottery twice in a row.

Bad Buff has shown up way more than good Buff, this team can't overcome Bad Buff appearances. This team is caught in a bear trap.
I'm sure there would be some takers.....assuming we'd take back a big salary.

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02-02-2017, 09:42 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Littles UFA. No guarantee he has an inkling to resign if we bottom out this year and are mediocre next year.

Would you resign. To a discounted deal to a team that's made the playoffs once in 7 years and finished bottom 10 the last two years?
Next year we shouldn't be riddled with injuries
Our young players will be a year older
Hopefully we have a new coach by then and have done something about goal tending
We should be a playoff team next year
But if we do nothing about it during off season we're another 50/50 team where the coach depends on the players more than his own coaching

I'm not too worried about convincing the vets. Next year should be a more competitive team.
I just think we'd have more to work with by having a higher draft pick

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02-02-2017, 09:43 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Littles UFA. No guarantee he has an inkling to resign if we bottom out this year and are mediocre next year.

Would you resign. To a discounted deal to a team that's made the playoffs once in 7 years and finished bottom 10 the last two years?
Depends what my wife wants

But I think he will want a contract similar to what Steen signed at least a 4 year deal in the 5+ range

I just don't know if you can afford to keep him around unless you can dump Perrault off to someone

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02-02-2017, 09:45 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Depends what my wife wants

But I think he will want a contract similar to what Steen signed at least a 4 year deal in the 5+ range

I just don't know if you can afford to keep him around unless you can dump Perrault off to someone

Matty p has gotta go. There's no room for him
That's why I think we should leave him exposed
Best way to get rid of his contract. Don't think you can get much for him in a trade

Bryan little>>Matty p
Priorities

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02-02-2017, 09:50 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy View Post
Next year we shouldn't be riddles with injuries
Our young players will be a year older
Hopefully we have a new coach by then and have done something about goal tending
We should be a playoff tram next year
But if we do nothing about it during off season were another 50/50 team where out coach depends on the players more than his own coaching

OK. So now your holding onto little because he hasn't signed yet.

Trade deadline. Your 2 points out of the final playoff spot.

Are you holding on to little or selling?

Your running a massive risk that A) you can make the playoffs and convince him to resign

B) you can afford to resign him in the first place.

You either have to extend little this season or make damn sure your going deep next year and have little resigning to a sweet heart deal.

Otherwise your totally ****ed and you just burnt all the value you might have got from a legitimate first line center

**** or get off the pot. Compete this year, contend the next two or three, or move little, wheeler, buff, and Enstrom for value that's going to help.

This isn't a complicated or difficult equation

If your not competing for another two years, move assets that will have diminished value by then now for assets that will be prime value at that time

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02-02-2017, 09:54 AM
  #18
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I'd also argue that narrowly missing the playoffs this year is probably going to help you get further next year and the year after by showing your team your not in rebuild and that your not a hot mess.

So you bottom out and draft 5th overall. Great, that no players going to be a key piece in two years when your competing? REALLY? there's no Laines in this draft. There's barely an ehlers. Hell there's barely any Kyle Connors. 20 bucks says 6/10 top picks from this draft aren't in the NHL till 19-20 season.

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02-02-2017, 10:00 AM
  #19
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I put together a salary cap roster for the 2018 season and took a guess at what some players may get and which players would be around. I traded Perrault out of this lineup.


CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (13)
Rightwing: B. Wheeler ($5,600,000) - P. Laine ($925,000) - J. Armia ($1,250,000) - N. Petan ($1,250,000)
Centre: M. Scheifele ($6,125,000) - B. Little ($5,000,000) - J. Roslovic ($925,000) - A. Lowry ($3,000,000)
Leftwing: A. Copp ($4,100,000) - N. Ehlers ($6,125,000) - K. Connor ($925,000) - M. Dano ($1,500,000) - B. Lemieux ($839,167)

DEFENSE (6)
Right: D. Byfuglien ($7,600,000) - T. Myers ($5,500,000) - L. Stanley ($925,000)
Left: J. Trouba ($6,250,000) - J. Morrissey ($4,250,000) - N. Nogier ($713,333)

GOALTENDER (2)
C. Hellebuyck ($2,500,000) - E. Comrie ($1,000,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 21
NHL Salary Cap: $75,000,000
Cap Hit: $66,302,500
Cap Space: $8,697,500

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02-02-2017, 10:08 AM
  #20
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I think your numbers are low. Your paying a top line center whos flirting with a point per game 5 mil a year.

The only way I see little taking that sweet heart deal is if we're in the second round or better this season and conference final next year.

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02-02-2017, 10:14 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I'd also argue that narrowly missing the playoffs this year is probably going to help you get further next year and the year after by showing your team your not in rebuild and that your not a hot mess.

So you bottom out and draft 5th overall. Great, that no players going to be a key piece in two years when your competing? REALLY? there's no Laines in this draft. There's barely an ehlers. Hell there's barely any Kyle Connors. 20 bucks says 6/10 top picks from this draft aren't in the NHL till 19-20 season.
I generally agree with this. I like Patrik better than most but I'm not interested in blowing the year for a chance at him.

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02-02-2017, 10:16 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
OK. So now your holding onto little because he hasn't signed yet.

Trade deadline. Your 2 points out of the final playoff spot.

Are you holding on to little or selling?

Your running a massive risk that A) you can make the playoffs and convince him to resign

B) you can afford to resign him in the first place.

You either have to extend little this season or make damn sure your going deep next year and have little resigning to a sweet heart deal.

Otherwise your totally ****ed and you just burnt all the value you might have got from a legitimate first line center

**** or get off the pot. Compete this year, contend the next two or three, or move little, wheeler, buff, and Enstrom for value that's going to help.

This isn't a complicated or difficult equation

If your not competing for another two years, move assets that will have diminished value by then now for assets that will be prime value at that time
Another two years? You're lost

Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I generally agree with this. I like Patrik better than most but I'm not interested in blowing the year for a chance at him.
Like we have a choice? Lol
Team is a mess. We have to score at least 4 goals a game
Good luck trying to make it to the playoffs

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02-02-2017, 10:19 AM
  #23
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Quote:
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If you really wanted you could trade that pick with a player for someone who will make an impact

Either way one of these central teams is gonna get better by not making it to the playoffs. They're all so close to each other
Predators, Dallas, winnipeg, blues

We make it, they don't, they getter better with a better draft pick and we stay the same. Management problems and so-so draft picks(aka not the best)

We're not gonna be any worse if we don't make it. We're not gonna be any better making it either
Our teams a 50/50 team. There will always be question marks

2018-19 is our big season. A top 5 draft pick now could help by then

Did you mean a different 18-19 season? One that isn't 2 seasons away?

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02-02-2017, 10:22 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Did you mean a different 18-19 season? One that isn't 2 seasons away?
You're aware that the Jets aren't a play off team right now right?
They have the talent, but standings say weren't not making it to the play offs
Next year we should make it to the play offs. The year after we should be able to make a deep run. That's the "big year"

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02-02-2017, 10:27 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I'd also argue that narrowly missing the playoffs this year is probably going to help you get further next year and the year after by showing your team your not in rebuild and that your not a hot mess.

So you bottom out and draft 5th overall. Great, that no players going to be a key piece in two years when your competing? REALLY? there's no Laines in this draft. There's barely an ehlers. Hell there's barely any Kyle Connors. 20 bucks says 6/10 top picks from this draft aren't in the NHL till 19-20 season.
That's why we draft a guy like TL or move Myers and the first pick or someone, SOMETHING
because we're not making it to the playoffs this year. We're way too inconsistent.
There's nothing fun about watching a team barely make it to the playoffs. Just a big waste of time.

Quote:
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If scenario 2 gets some or all the coaches fired - perfect.
Exactly

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