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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Connecticut making pitch for Islanders to Hartford

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Old
02-03-2017, 10:07 PM
  #76
Cacciaguida
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I wouldn't take Nate Silver seriously.

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02-03-2017, 10:12 PM
  #77
MNNumbers
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Originally Posted by Cacciaguida View Post
I wouldn't take Nate Silver seriously.
This particular piece is short on his usual facts and figures approach. He has lots of numbers in there, but little way to actually answer the question, so he just leaves it hanging there.

Really, there is no way to quantify the loyalty of Islander fans.

There is no way to quantify, right now, the monetization of a new arrangement at NVMC.

And, there is no way to quantify the possibility of a renovated XL in Hartford.

Too many unknowns. Just like there were too many 2 years ago when they signed to go to BC

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02-03-2017, 10:13 PM
  #78
gordie
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Originally Posted by The Feckless Puck View Post
With that kind of arena offer, I bet the Islanders are also offered a free bowl of soup by Governor?

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02-03-2017, 10:38 PM
  #79
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The Nets owner also controls Nassau so any deal runs through him.

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02-03-2017, 10:38 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NHL Hartford View Post
Too expensive, SCI has told the city you can get the practically the same building for the $250M option without spending the extra $250M. The only differences they noted the new arena would have over the retrofitted one is a larger seating capacity, bigger loading bay/staging area which would help for concerts (something Hartford doesn't need since Mohegan, I believe gets the most concert dates in the country) and the $15M NHL package (12,000sq ft NHL locker room, additional club suites and 4 person loge boxes) is already built in.
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Originally Posted by NHL Hartford View Post
The transformation plan does the same thing a new arena does it's just built on the bones of the current structure. If you think just because the building will utilize the same roof, etc. that it precludes it from being an NHL facility, even though economically it will perform better than some current NHL facilities I'm not sure what to say to you.
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Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
I've been in that arena, and glancing at this plan, it's very impressive how it can create all the revenue-producing aspects of a brand new arena within the current building skeleton. Most of the seating would remain close to the ice and it would save $250 million, plus potential land acquisition costs. Very impressive. I hope it happens and draws an NHL team (preferably by expansion, but if some team has to move, I'd like to see QC and CT get the next teams).
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Originally Posted by CTHabsfan View Post
I love how they keep mentioning $250 million to renovate, but fail to include demolition and land acquisition costs which would be part of the project. My understanding is those costs would bring the project to at least $400 million (perhaps a lot more), which is an awful lot of money for a state with a huge deficit. Connecticut is also facing a loss of another large corporation (Aetna) to Boston.
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Originally Posted by AlwaysSunnyInTampa View Post
Well that extra is probably $250 million. I wish it was that simple for the Whaler fans to get their team back but it's not. The problem is that almost 20 years ago the Whalers were faced with "New arena or bust" and still haven't gotten it built. Now granted, I think Karmanos is a total ******* for what he did but unfortunately that lack of a new arena is a very damning argument against the city of Hartford. Especially when you consider that Quebec City built arguably the finest arena on the North American continent that doesn't have an NHL team in it right now.

I wish the city of Hartford all the best but if they just want to renovate XL center I don't think it's gonna be enough to bring the Whalers back, especially if the Isles have a renovated Coliseum to go back to.
Exactly. Just build something nice in West Hartford or Downtown and call it a day.

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02-04-2017, 02:56 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Exactly. Just build something nice in West Hartford or Downtown and call it a day.
Wonder how things would play out if the Isles did relocate to Hartford and branded as, say, the New England Islanders? And, simultaneously, if LI kept the AHL affiliate in Nassau and branded themselves as the New York (or Long Island) Islanders? Would people in LI still watch Hartford-based Isles games on TV/online as they would have the farm team there and the team names and history were kept intact? Would Nassau-based fans make a trip to Hartford a few games a year (likely on some weekends) to see the parent club?

Also, with the "sweetheart" TV deal, what is the actual barrier for broadcasting in Western Connecticut? Considering there is already a precedent of broadcasting in Buffalo, what would actually need to be done to extend MSGs coverage to Western Conn?

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02-04-2017, 03:24 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Bucky_Hoyt View Post
Wonder how things would play out if the Isles did relocate to Hartford and branded as, say, the New England Islanders? And, simultaneously, if LI kept the AHL affiliate in Nassau and branded themselves as the New York (or Long Island) Islanders? Would people in LI still watch Hartford-based Isles games on TV/online as they would have the farm team there and the team names and history were kept intact? Would Nassau-based fans make a trip to Hartford a few games a year (likely on some weekends) to see the parent club?

Also, with the "sweetheart" TV deal, what is the actual barrier for broadcasting in Western Connecticut? Considering there is already a precedent of broadcasting in Buffalo, what would actually need to be done to extend MSGs coverage to Western Conn?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rwxneQz_gs

please don't


Like I'm fine if the Islanders and Rangers switch affiliates and we rename the Hartford team the Whalers, it would work well with the Mariner theme and all, but nooooooooooope. Not the same. Just uprooting one fanbase to appease the other.


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02-04-2017, 06:08 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by BTV View Post
"The Hartford-New Haven television market is the largest in the country without a professional sports team."

I get that they likely meant "major league" here...but the Hartford media doesn't realize they not only have a professional hockey team, but one that already calls the XL Center home? Yes, this is a pipe dream but you'd think the article would at the very least mention the Wolf Pack, who would likely be displaced should such a move happen.
People in Hartford actually don't care much for the Wolfpack.

Its an unfortunate reality but the team is one of the least drawing franchises in the AHL.

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02-04-2017, 02:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
People in Hartford actually don't care much for the Wolfpack.

Its an unfortunate reality but the team is one of the least drawing franchises in the AHL.
it makes me wonder how well they would be doing if they weren't morons and kept the Whale/Whaler branding.

That was probably all part of the plan they so could justify moving to New York state.


Not sure about how other Islanders fans and our owners feel, but if the Rangers wanna swap Hartford for Bridgeport I'd be down, Hartford could keep their original colours too. I bet our new owners would love to have an AHL team with top tier merchandise sales. Islanders -Whalers just makes too much sense for it to happen.

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02-04-2017, 02:17 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky_Hoyt View Post
Wonder how things would play out if the Isles did relocate to Hartford and branded as, say, the New England Islanders? And, simultaneously, if LI kept the AHL affiliate in Nassau and branded themselves as the New York (or Long Island) Islanders? Would people in LI still watch Hartford-based Isles games on TV/online as they would have the farm team there and the team names and history were kept intact? Would Nassau-based fans make a trip to Hartford a few games a year (likely on some weekends) to see the parent club?

Also, with the "sweetheart" TV deal, what is the actual barrier for broadcasting in Western Connecticut? Considering there is already a precedent of broadcasting in Buffalo, what would actually need to be done to extend MSGs coverage to Western Conn?
MSG tried this a few years ago in a deal with NESN to allow NESN to broadcast in Albany and MSG in Hartford, but through the MLB YES blocked it because they didn't want the Red Sox being broadcast in Albany.
So it would be complicated to get MSG into Connecticut.

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02-04-2017, 03:38 PM
  #86
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MSG tried this a few years ago in a deal with NESN to allow NESN to broadcast in Albany and MSG in Hartford, but through the MLB YES blocked it because they didn't want the Red Sox being broadcast in Albany.
So it would be complicated to get MSG into Connecticut.
MSG is in Connecticut but not every provider carries it. Metrocast for example carries MSG but not MSG+ However MSG does not go into Massachusetts which would be a problem for a team in Hartford.

No state in the country has more RSN's on basic than Connecticut as you have MSG, SNY, YES, NESN and CSN-NE all available. (Fairfield County only carries the NYC based RSN's)

CSN-New England was actually started by the Whalers along with the Celtics in 1981 and the network was known as Prism ( which was owned by Ed Snider ) The channel was like HBO but besides movies it carried live sports. It would become Sportschannel, then Fox Sports New England and now it is Comcast Sports NE.

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The network was founded by Edward M. Snider, the owner of the Philadelphia Flyers NHL team and Spectacor, co-owner of PRISM as well as the owner of the Flyers and The Spectrum; 20th Century Fox initially held a 50% ownership interest in the channel. PRISM's administrative offices were located on City Avenue in the Philadelphia suburb of Bala Cynwyd, while its studios, production and master control facilities were all situated at the event level of The Spectrum at Broad Street and Pattison Avenue in South Philadelphia.

On November 6, 1981, Spectacor launched PRISM New England (now Comcast SportsNet New England), a Boston-based cable channel which maintained a similar programming format as PRISM, and carried games from the Hartford Whalers, Boston Celtics, Boston Breakers and various New England college sports teams. In 1982, Snider bought out Fox's 50% stake in PRISM and PRISM New England
They would be the most likely cable TV home of a NHL team in Connecticut.

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02-04-2017, 05:00 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by MNNumbers View Post
This particular piece is short on his usual facts and figures approach. He has lots of numbers in there, but little way to actually answer the question, so he just leaves it hanging there.

Really, there is no way to quantify the loyalty of Islander fans.

There is no way to quantify, right now, the monetization of a new arrangement at NVMC.

And, there is no way to quantify the possibility of a renovated XL in Hartford.

Too many unknowns. Just like there were too many 2 years ago when they signed to go to BC
Yeah, it's a little weak for him. I suppose he figures it works off of some of the previous stories he's done.

Also, he's Rangers fan, so there's that.

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02-04-2017, 05:48 PM
  #88
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In all honesty, all of this noise is just negotiation from both sides. Thankfully, Charles Wang is no longer running the show (he was awful at negotiating and the person I fully blame on the current setup because of putting all his eggs in one basket).

I fully expect the Islanders team to use this, as well as Nassau and whatever else may pop up as leverage for their side. I do not believe they have any intention on throwing away tens of millions in guaranteed cable/arena money. Conversely, I do not believe Barclays doesn't benefit from having the Islanders as a tenant (they need leverage too).

In the end, I bet the Islanders will likely give up some guaranteed money.... and some improvements will be made to Barclays (likely with a surcharge added to Islander tickets). Nassau is not viable, we know this. Any talk of *another* arena being built is fantasy (I believe we're up to 8 venues now? Mets/Yanks/MSG/NVMC/Barclays/Rock/Giants/Arthur Ashe)

Moving to Hartford would mean going into an even older arena, further away with no transit and it's own question marks. As well as throwing roughly $90m in guaranteed money directly into the garbage. Think

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02-05-2017, 11:27 AM
  #89
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Quick Question, with 50 miles radius exclusivity regions would NESN be forced to black out Bruins Broadcasts that conflict with the Whalers in their home market (Hartford), even if the Whalers don't have NESN as their TV provider.

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02-05-2017, 12:35 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bruins1233 View Post
Quick Question, with 50 miles radius exclusivity regions would NESN be forced to black out Bruins Broadcasts that conflict with the Whalers in their home market (Hartford), even if the Whalers don't have NESN as their TV provider.
Good question. The smart thing for them would be to simply allow both as they do with the Rangers, Isles, Devils

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02-05-2017, 12:38 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Bruins1233 View Post
Quick Question, with 50 miles radius exclusivity regions would NESN be forced to black out Bruins Broadcasts that conflict with the Whalers in their home market (Hartford), even if the Whalers don't have NESN as their TV provider.
The way it was done before was if the Whalers were playing the Bruins then Sportschannel was blacked out in Boston and NESN/TV38 were blocked in Hartford.

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02-05-2017, 01:39 PM
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How much is the Comcast NE contract per year if the Whalers come back?

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02-05-2017, 02:37 PM
  #93
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Would love to see Hartford get NHL hockey again. The Islanders I think are going to be on the move out of New York soon which is unfortunate given the history of the team. Hartford would be as great a city as any to get them.

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02-05-2017, 05:24 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
How much is the Comcast NE contract per year if the Whalers come back?
Could easily be 20M a year plus. CSNNE has 4,000,000 subscribers so if they only added 50 cents a month to the fee they collect from cable and dish subscribers they would generate 20 million.

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02-05-2017, 10:40 PM
  #95
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Could easily be 20M a year plus. CSNNE has 4,000,000 subscribers so if they only added 50 cents a month to the fee they collect from cable and dish subscribers they would generate 20 million.
Geez, will they get anything close to that anywhere else besides seattle?

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02-06-2017, 07:10 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
People in Hartford actually don't care much for the Wolfpack.

Its an unfortunate reality but the team is one of the least drawing franchises in the AHL.
Oh I understand the sentiment, I've been to many Wolf Pack games - I've seen that place mostly empty and I've seen it filled. There are plenty of people who do care for them, but they are no doubt outnumbered by the Whaler fans who boycott because it isn't NHL.

I guess my point was that a legitimate Hartford media outlet would report on this story and not even make a mention of the Wolf Pack. Not only not mention them, but explicitly state a fact that no pro team even exists. That seemed like a huge hole in the story, something a "blogger" would do but not an actual news station.

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02-06-2017, 08:14 AM
  #97
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A lot of franchises in trouble in the NHL. And some idiot paid $500 million for a new one to stick in Transplant Central.

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02-06-2017, 10:20 AM
  #98
gordie
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A lot of franchises in trouble in the NHL. And some idiot paid $500 million for a new one to stick in Transplant Central.
The last NHL franchise to fold was the Brooklyn Americans in 1942.

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02-06-2017, 10:31 AM
  #99
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The last NHL franchise to fold was the Brooklyn Americans in 1942.
Only because the NHL used some sleight of hand to hide the collapse of the Cleveland Barons in 1978. That was a team folding, they just called it a merger to save face.

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02-06-2017, 10:37 AM
  #100
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The last NHL franchise to fold was the Brooklyn Americans in 1942.
Unless you want to include the Cleveland Barons in that, "amalgamated", folded into the North Stars.... The NHL didnt actually fold the Americans in 1942, they termed it as a "suspension of play" and had promised Red Dutton that the club could & would continue to play upon the cessation of hostilities after WW2 provided he could get a new building up in Brooklyn. Dutton then appointed to the role of NHL President after the sudden death of Frank Calder then in 1945 having lined up the financing for the new building, the NHL reneged on their promise to Dutton and "retired" the franchise... Understandably, Dutton went into orbit, walking away from the NHL in disgust never to return though he was inducted into the HHOF as a Player in 1958.

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