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The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

Sergey Mozyakin CBJ (best Russian player right now (included all Russian nhl players)

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Old
02-05-2017, 08:58 AM
  #126
Blunder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimerdinger View Post
Semin has 16-14-30.

Couldnt skate an entire shift in the NHL last year.

Chris Lee is over a PPG in the KHL as a dman. A guy that never had 40pts in the AHL.

Nigel Dawes is a PPG player in the KHL and has 35goals in 55 games this year.

Another one that couldn't hold a roster position in the NHL. He was garbage with the Habs.

Over 200 example.


KHL is a lesser league... Overall poor goaltending and any great statistical season is like someone killing it in the Dleague, nobody cares cuz its a second tier pro league.

Stephon Marbury best PG of all US Player cuz he average 25/7/5/2 for 10 years at 55 years old in the CBA.
What do you say about Radulov then? 65 points in 53 games last year, 41 points in 51 games with the Habs this year. Or Panarin? 62 points in 54 games, then 77 points with the Hawks in the following year. Why do you think they are able to be good NHL players? Because they were dominant in the KHL? Just like Mozyakin?

Mozyakin has 84 points in 58 games (47 goals). Those are some ridiculous numbers indicating he's absolutely dominating the league. The only player who has been able to match this kind of production was Malkin when he was in his prime.

Obviously it's a different league where players who don't excel in the NHL have a shot to be good. But it doesn't mean they're bad players per se. Usually they lack one or two things to be effective in the NHL and then look way worse than they actually are because they can't crack the top 6 (and aren't bottom 6 players) for example. When you can't use your strengths you're pretty useless.

And just because you play in the KHL doesn't mean you couldn't get better as a player. Nigel Dawes had 30-something points in his first 2 seasons in the KHL. Now he's a PPG guy. Chris Lee is a good defenseman on the big ice because his strengths are skating and offensive skills. Weaknesses defensive game and physical game = not a recipe for success for a d-man in NA.

And case Semin. No one can question he has great offensive skills (and was a legitimate top 6 player just a few seasons ago). Just because he hit a wall in the NHL it's totally impossible for him to rebound playing in his home country? Many Russian players who go there to finish off their careers feel excited for the opportunity.

Your view of the KHL is so flawed. It's a better league than the AHL filled with great athletes. Guys make the jump from AHL to NHL all the time.

And FWIW knowing what type of player Mozyakin is i doubt he'd be a PPG guy in the NHL. He excels on the big ice and would face limitations in his game in the NHL. But i still think he's a phenomenal player and would improve anyone's top 6.

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Old
02-05-2017, 09:58 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM71 View Post
You're either being disingenuous and not telling the full story or you just haven't looked deeper into the facts.

First off Mozyakin already had 3 points before Malkin even join the team. After that they both scored 65 points in the 37 games they played together, so no he didn't outscore Malkin, they were tied. Secondly and more importantly Malkin was at a significant disadvantage seeing as how has was not accustomed to the playing style of the KHL while Mozyakin was a seasoned veteran having already won a couple scoring titles. And that difference showed clearly in their first 10 games, where Malkin had just 9 points(and a single goal) while Mozyakin had 13 points. After that initial adjustment Malkin took off and outscore Mozyakin 56 to 52 before leaving. Lastly Mozyakin's production dropped off significantly to under a point per game for the rest of the regular season and into the playoffs after Malkin left. He also hasn't been able to produce at anywhere close to the level he hit when playing with Malkin, instead scoring at 1.35, 1.10, 1.18 & 1.45ppg in each season since then. Clearly playing with #71 elevated his game to otherwise unsustainable levels.

Next time I suggest you look deeper into the stats before spouting off insults and falsehoods.
I'm actually giving more story than you do.
1) Alright, you got me here, they were tied.
2) I don't remember Malkin having any adjustment period. His 3rd and 4th game were both 3-pointers, and he looked great right off the gate. If anything, both he and Mozyakin needed some time to build chemistry, so they both went into a mini-slump before taking off like fireworks. Why would Malkin need adjustment to his native ice size and playing style at all? he played rgularly in the World Championships.
3) Well, no **** bro, when your linemates are replae by inferior players, your stats ought to go down. I don't see you pointing out that Malkin put his points centering the best winger in KHL history.
4) Whatever stats you nitpick, the fact is that we have already seen top NHL stars in the KHL, with Malkin being the only one to whom the definition "man among boys" waas even remotely approriate, and even he struggled to outscore his linemate who never played in he NHL.

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Old
02-05-2017, 10:43 AM
  #128
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Drafted in 2002, 35 years old, not cracking the NHL. Thread moved.

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Old
02-05-2017, 02:04 PM
  #129
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Quote:
2) I don't remember Malkin having any adjustment period. His 3rd and 4th game were both 3-pointers, and he looked great right off the gate.
No he didn't looks great off the gate. Outside of those two 3 point games he had 3 points in 8 games, you call that great?

Quote:
Why would Malkin need adjustment to his native ice size and playing style at all? he played rgularly in the World Championships.
You have a different interpretation of 'regularly' then most people have. From the summer of 2007 to the fall of 2012, that's a period of more than 5 years, he played in just 19 games on the large ice at 3 international tournaments. In the same period of time he played in 412 NHL games RS & PO and that doesn't including preseason games. Which ice surface and playing style do you think his game was more in tuned to by that time?

Also Malkin hadn't played a game in 3 months when he joined Magnitogorsk. Heck he didn't even know where he was going to be playing until less then 5 days before when the NHL lockout started on the 15th. He didn't have any time to warm up, do you really think he was playing anywhere near 100% at that time? Maybe Mozyakin wasn't either but he was certainly far closer to it having the benefit of preseason games and the teams first 2 regular season games.

Quote:
3) Well, no **** bro, when your linemates are replae by inferior players, your stats ought to go down. I don't see you pointing out that Malkin put his points centering the best winger in KHL history.
That point wasn't that his production when down, it's by how much. I expected Mozyakin to match Radulov's single season record that year, I was surprised that he didn't. In the end he finished with 14 points in 16 games RS & PO's. That's 0.88ppg, exactly half of what his production was playing with Malkin. It's kind of shocking for arguably the best player in KHL history to decline that much.

Quote:
4) Whatever stats you nitpick, the fact is that we have already seen top NHL stars in the KHL, with Malkin being the only one to whom the definition "man among boys" waas even remotely approriate, and even he struggled to outscore his linemate who never played in he NHL.
Now I know you don't have a clue about what your talking about. It's not nitpicking its a fact, most of the NHL players that went over there absolutely dominated the league. They were indeed men among boys. All of whom didn't have the benefit of any preseason games and were just trust into the KHL season. This clearly showed in the early going as their production was universally lower in their first games over there. The only reason why they didn't dominate the scoring chart at the end of the year is because they went back to the NHL.

8 of the top 10 point producers in ppg were NHL players. The only two who weren't were Radulov and Mozyakin. And Radulov is in the NHL today so it's actually 9.



Here's a relevant post I made many years ago on the matter;

Quote:
Originally Posted by EM71 View Post
I'm sorry but Kane and Lupel are the exceptions not the rule. Most NHL players who went to the KHL dominated. Heck, mid-level NHL players like Kulemin, Voracek, Anismov & Kostitsyn S. practically became superstars over there. And most of the actual superstars like Malkin, Ovechkin, Backstrom & Datsyuk all upped their ppg rates significantly.

Here's a list of how NHL players(from last season only) fared in the KHL this past season(in points per game);

ranked from highest ppg
KHL ppg vs NHL ppg & difference
1.76 vs 1.45 +0.31 +21% Malkin
1.32 vs 1.05 +0.27 +26% Backstrom
1.32 vs 0.78 +0.54 +69% Radulov
1.29 vs 0.83 +0.46 +55% Ovechkin
1.17 vs 1.08 +0.09 +8% Kovalchuk
1.16 vs 0.96 +0.20 +21% Datsyuk
1.07 vs 0.57 +0.50 +88% Kostitsyn S
1.06 vs 0.40 +0.66 +165% Kulemin
0.87 vs 0.63 +0.24 +38% Voracek
0.83 vs 0.46 +0.37 +80% Anismov
0.83 vs 0.69 +0.14 +20% Garboski
0.82 vs 0.74 +0.08 +11% Pavelski
0.80 vs 0.70 +0.10 +14% Semin
0.78 vs 0.50 +0.28 +56% Gonchar
0.77 vs 0.38 +0.39 +103% Hedman
0.76 vs 0.43 +0.42 +79% Stapleton
0.69 vs 0.69 no change Visnovsky
0.56 vs 0.40 +0.16 +40% Ponikarovsky
0.55 vs 0.27 +0.28 +104% Fedotenko
0.53 vs 0.63 -0.10 -19% Kostitsyn A
0.49 vs 0.24 +0.25 +104% Christensen
0.48 vs 0.19 +0.29 +153% Sekera
0.44 vs 1.02 -0.58 -57% Lupul
0.40 vs 0.66 -0.26 -39% Chara
0.08 vs 0.77 -0.69 -90% Kane
It's been proven over and over again that players produce far high in the KHL than in the NHL. Radulov, who is argued by some to be better than Mozyakin(I think he's a close second), has been amongst the best Russian forwards in the NHL this year. But he has not dominated the scoring charts as some people thought he would before the season like he did in Russia. And many believe that Radulov's game translates better in the NHL than Mozyakin's. He's played in nearly the same amount of games as he did last year and you can see how dramatically his production has dropped;
53 23-42-65 KHL 2015-16
52 13-28-41 NHL 2016-17

I actually really like Mozyakin and I love that he's set the new KHL records this year. I think that he would do well in the NHL on the same level as Panarin, who outscored him btw in his last season in the KHL despite being 10 years his junior basically not in his prime like he is now. Maybe even slightly better, in any case that would put him amongst the best russians in the game. I could even see him producing at a ppg. He might be better than any russian not named Malkin or Ovi but he is not better than those two.


Last edited by EM71: 02-05-2017 at 04:10 PM. Reason: wording
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Old
02-05-2017, 04:02 PM
  #130
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Oh and their actually is another place where we can directly compare Ovechkin & Malkin to Mozyakin which further which supports the fact they are superior to him. It's their production at a tournament they've both played many times in; the World Championships.

Overall their totals are as follows. For the record Radulov's totals are also very similar to Mozyakin's.

Geno; 53 31-31-62 0.58gpg 1.17ppg
Ovi; 73 33-26-61 0.45gpg 0.84ppg
Mozya; 48 18-17-35 0.38gpg 0.73ppg
Radulov; 41 13-19-32 0.32gpg 0.78ppg

And hitting the nail on the head to the idea that Mozyakin is somehow better than Geno or Ovi, here's the numbers tournaments they both played in at the same time;

Geno vs Mozya 2006, 2010, 2015
Geno; 21 13-13-26 0.62gpg 1.24ppg
Mozya; 17 9-5-14 0.53gpg 0.82ppg

Ovi vs Mozya 2006, 2008, 2010, 2013, 2015, 2016
Ovi; 34 20-13-33 0.59gpg 0.97ppg
Mozya; 42 16-15-31 0.38gpg 0.74ppg

I wish we could compare their numbers in the Olympics, but for some bizarre reason the Russians don't seem to want to invite their 'best player' to those.

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Old
02-06-2017, 05:38 AM
  #131
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Mozya

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Old
02-06-2017, 11:41 PM
  #132
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Try goals per game. No ones best season came within 10 goals of this guys best season, not even close. Even his average goals/60 games over almost 500 games is >35 goals. That puts him near record breaking levels every single year, ridiculousness. Put Mozy on Malkins wing and hes top 10 in NHL scoring every year.


Last edited by malkinfan: 02-06-2017 at 11:48 PM.
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