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Aftermath: The Dion Phaneuf trade to Ottawa

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Old
02-04-2017, 10:19 PM
  #76
Rhaegar Targaryen
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Originally Posted by LeafFever View Post
Fine, but he's still a 7 million cap hit in a more reduced role.
Obviously, having Phaneuf makes no sense for Toronto in a rebuild.
If you factor in the money we save from Michalek/Cowen/Greening, the Phaneuf contract adds ~$4.5M per season onto the Sens payroll over the course of his contract.

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Old
02-04-2017, 10:21 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 50 in 07 View Post
Yeah you're completely mixing up cap hit and salary.

Phaneuf's actual dollars owed considering all the money we shipped out is like 5 ish million a year for the rest of his contract. Not bad for a top 4 d-man.

Ottawa as a "budget team" has an internal limit on salary. Ottawa doesn't care whatsoever about cap hit as a result.
I didn't mix up anything. I'm well aware of that fact his pay does not equate to his cap hit. I'm telling you from a cap management standpoint long-term, if the ultimate goal is to build a contender, you don't want to have a guy like him taking 7m of your cap hit, who is a #3/#4 defender until he's 36. Then I acknowledge it depends on fan expectations of whether they want a team that's competitive or a team that can move forward towards a contender. There's also the inherent limitation of an internal cap the Sens have, being a small market team.

Ultimately, it doesn't help when you have Phaneuf and Ryan cap hit weighing the team down long-term. One may be acceptable, but both weighs heavily (and in Phaneuf's case, the risk was well-known prior to taking him on). It's still about asset management at the end of the day. It's not a winning strategy but I emphasize with Sen fans- who have to deal with i.e.- having trouble even attracting a player like Phaneuf in the first place, internal cap, small market, etc. implying that the entire discussion of his worth can be debated moreover.

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Old
02-04-2017, 10:25 PM
  #78
NyQuil
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
and with Dion we couldn't even get out of the bottom 5/10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws
Leafs ended last season 14 points back of the sens.
That's funny, all I've heard all year from Leaf fans is about how those results were irrelevant because you tanked last season by putting Sparks in and a bunch of nobodies.

Now Phaneuf was part of the problem.

Funny stuff.

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02-04-2017, 10:27 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Rhaegar Targaryen View Post
If you factor in the money we save from Michalek/Cowen/Greening, the Phaneuf contract adds ~$4.5M per season onto the Sens payroll over the course of his contract.
that's true and that's how LL sold it but that'll be a small comfort in a couple of years when he's stumbling around the ice even worse than he's doing now

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02-04-2017, 10:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Dave Sparky Allison View Post
It's worked out for both sides. Ottawa needed a proven top 4 defenceman, amd Toronto wanted to get rid of Phaneuf's contract, which they were able to do without retaining salary.

Going forward, Phaneuf's contract will hurt the Sens, but he has helped the team.

The guy you really feel for is Michalek. He waives his no trade to go to the Leafs, which he probably didn't want to do and now he's in the minors.
Maybe he should have been a better player during his audition

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Old
02-04-2017, 10:29 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
That's funny, all I've heard all year from Leaf fans is about how those results were irrelevant because you tanked last season by putting Sparks in and a bunch of nobodies.

Now Phaneuf was part of the problem.

Funny stuff.
I seem to remember a lot of non Leafs fans saying how Phaneuf was not a #1 Defenseman based on his contract and why he was a reason for Toronto always losing.

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Old
02-04-2017, 10:29 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by LeafFever View Post
Oh come on. The Leafs are far exceeding expectations and have looked better than when they had Dion. They are very close to a playoff spot when no one thought they would be. ( 3 points back with 5 games in hand)
1 point back with 5 games in hand.

Sens got a player they needed and the Leafs got rid of a huge cap hit that had no place in their future.

Win win

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Old
02-04-2017, 10:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
That's funny, all I've heard all year from Leaf fans is about how those results were irrelevant because you tanked last season by putting Sparks in and a bunch of nobodies.

Now Phaneuf was part of the problem.

Funny stuff.
funny stuff is how much better we are without him

the guys an overrated/overpaid dim witted clown and i'm thrilled that we found a sucker to take him

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02-04-2017, 10:31 PM
  #84
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Way too early for this.

Sens haven't even played a full season + playoffs since last year.

Leafs don't yet have access to all of the cap space they bought.

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Old
02-04-2017, 10:35 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by LeafFever View Post
Fine, but he's still a 7 million cap hit in a more reduced role.
Obviously, having Phaneuf makes no sense for Toronto in a rebuild.
cap HIT isn't really a huge deal for Ottawa.. Doubt they are anywhere near the ceiling even with Phaneuf

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Old
02-04-2017, 10:35 PM
  #86
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Should be noted that the Sens 2nd round pick we received for Dion will likely be the pick going to Anaheim for Freddie Andersen.

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02-04-2017, 10:36 PM
  #87
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Both teams got benefit out of the trade


Last edited by Finnish your Czech: 02-04-2017 at 11:10 PM.
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Old
02-05-2017, 01:12 AM
  #88
Dave Sparky Allison
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
Maybe he should have been a better player during his audition
Perhaps, but I still feel bad for him. He's an NHL player. Not as good as he once was, but he's not an AHLer. I'm surprised Greening is in the minors after what? 15 points in 30 games after getting to Toronto?

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Old
02-05-2017, 01:15 AM
  #89
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In retrospect the Sens traded a 2nd and Bishop for Phaneuf, which surprising enough would have been a trade in their favour in the lockout season...

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02-05-2017, 04:58 AM
  #90
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Sens got better.
Leafs freed up some CAP for later.

Win/Win

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Old
02-05-2017, 05:15 AM
  #91
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Phaneuf's main problem in Toronto was his financial burden. He did play on our top pairing, but he's not a top pairing defenseman, he's a middle pairing defenseman. He is fine as a player when he is sheltered appropriately. His contract was by far the biggest issue going forward because Leafs knew they would need some of the money allocated to his contract for the future rising stars and other, more suitable free agents. Leafs were just simply not going to be a competitive team with a 7 million dollar defenseman playing on the middle pairing behind Zaitsev and Rielly. We are now virtually free of deadweight after this season, and the Leafs brass have relief from financial constraints to do what they see is best during free agency.

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Old
02-05-2017, 06:19 AM
  #92
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Its one of those trades that both team are happy

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Old
02-05-2017, 07:17 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by MapleLeafsFan75 View Post
I seem to remember a lot of non Leafs fans saying how Phaneuf was not a #1 Defenseman based on his contract and why he was a reason for Toronto always losing.
your memory is not very good. A lot of non Leaf fans were saying Dion was not a #1 based on his play. The problem then became that he had a #1 contract. With the declining salary he's being paid in terms of actual money out the door versus what he brings he's been pretty good this year. Solid second pair guy. The problem in Toronto was they signed him to be a solid top pair guy.

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Old
02-05-2017, 07:42 AM
  #94
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Declaring a winner now makes no sense.

All that cap space is gone from the Leafs in 3 months. Nearly 20 M in free space. They got a draft pick and a prospect for him as well.

Before his trade, Phaneuf was playing as the Leafs #4 D. He was passed by Gardiner and was just evidently not worth his contract.

He is playing well in that role for the sens, however that would not have made a difference this year for the Leafs. Leafs have the financial flexibility now to manage their cap going forward.

Sens upgraded their D in the short term, but Dions decline is evident to anyone who has watched him. He was absolutely a top pairing guy 3 years ago. He faced among the top quality of competition in the NHL each night with the lowest quality of team mates out of his comparable.

Doing that playing heavy defensive minutes, he was still good for 30-40 points a season, and most times did that with bottom pairing D like Aulie, Gunner, and Marincin.

Now he is a solid #4. What about 2 years from now? A 7M D who is a bottom pairing guy? That's not helping the team in any way.

So the Leafs have already won from their perspective. If the sens goal was to get a 2nd pairing D for a few seasons to help them squeak into the playoffs then they won as well.

If they wanted a good D long term, they may still lose this deal. Between Ryan and Phaneuf, those are two crippling contracts if they do not pull their weight.

Meanwhile Leafs are plugging on without any Salary issues due to this deal. Not to mention the 2nd was used to secure their goaltending for the future.

I think sens fans know this but choose to act smug instead (or some of you to be fair, not all) to cover for your crappy owner. The truth is the Sens will never win a cup with him as owner. Leafs have a chance with where their current rebuild is going.

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Old
02-05-2017, 07:43 AM
  #95
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It was a pile of garbage for a pile of garbage. Nothing to see here

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Old
02-05-2017, 07:44 AM
  #96
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Leafs could use Dion right now.

But then we wouldn't really want to be paying him that salary.

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Old
02-05-2017, 08:11 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Sparky Allison View Post
Perhaps, but I still feel bad for him. He's an NHL player. Not as good as he once was, but he's not an AHLer. I'm surprised Greening is in the minors after what? 15 points in 30 games after getting to Toronto?
It is always sad when a player that you like starts showing age. He just didn't have NHL speed with Toronto and in the new NHL that's critical. I recall him being a major pain in the butt against Toronto many times though.

As for Greening, he played very well for us but he doesn't fit into the top 9 and we already have a guy on the 4th line who should really be getting more ice time. Greening got paid too much and became a whipping boy in Ottawa, if he made 1.5 less he would still be a Senator as at least depth.

Interestingly enough, Dion is exactly what this team is lacking. But if we kept him, do we get Matthews?

I think both teams got what they wanted and both would do it again

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Old
02-05-2017, 08:15 AM
  #98
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Paying that contract for a pylon and a guy who doesn't put much offence is horrible. Great move for the Leafs

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Old
02-05-2017, 08:23 AM
  #99
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Both teams are happy now and maybe next year,Leafs will be happy the years after that,Ott not so much,

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Old
02-05-2017, 08:37 AM
  #100
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Year later and it still looks like a bunch of junk for a bunch of junk.

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