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Old
02-11-2017, 11:50 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
We went to the cup as well. Oops.

How many cups have you won? When people think cups do they think of you?
Why do you keep saying this, makes no sense, I guess you are just mad....

Again, teams win Cups because of the draft, if you don't think so, good luck to ya with those Fleury and Bure highlight years.....

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02-11-2017, 11:57 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Why do you keep saying this, makes no sense, I guess you are just mad....

Again, teams win Cups because of the draft, if you don't think so, good luck to ya with those Fleury and Bure highlight years.....
Im not mad.. Neophytes like yourself make me laugh. You are tge guy that says Brady never should have thrown that interception while honestly thinking you wouldn't have if you switched pisitions. Teams win cups with the draft, trades, and free agency just like teams that do not win cups. If there was one way to win cups every team would do it. If you knew how to win a cup with 100% certainty you could run any team in the NHL instead of being a hindsight online GM.

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02-12-2017, 12:01 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Teams win cups with the draft, trades, and free agency just like teams that do not win cups. If there was one way to win cups every team would do it. If you knew how to win a cup with 100% certainty you could run any team in the NHL instead of being a hindsight online GM.
Has nothing to do with hindsight, been saying this same stuff on HF since 1998 !

Teams that win Cups get the young guys first, not the other way around, do your own homework if you don't believe me.

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02-12-2017, 12:06 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Has nothing to do with hindsight, been saying this same stuff on HF since 1998 !

Teams that win Cups get the young guys first, not the other way around, do your own homework if you don't believe me.
How many cups have you won?

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02-12-2017, 12:13 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
How many cups have you won?
You keep repeating yourslef did you know that?

I have not won any, but the guy who taught me hockey(my first coach) is a HOF GM with three cups under his belt and is one of the most respected men in hockey all time.

You really never know who you're talking to on a message board....

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02-12-2017, 12:16 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
You keep repeating yourslef did you know that?

I have not won any, but the guy who taught me hockey(my first coach) is a HOF GM with three cups under his belt and is one of the most respected men in hockey all time.

You really never know who you're talking to on a message board....
So that would be zero.

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02-12-2017, 12:18 AM
  #82
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So that would be zero.
What does that matter to this argument, its about philosophy, and the one I;m backing has produced many Cups - your philosophy has produced how many Cups?

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02-12-2017, 12:31 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
We went to the cup as well. Oops.

How many cups have you won? When people think cups do they think of you?


Check mate Nicky!

I get what people want in hindsight for the Rangers to have tanked and rebuilt, but the NHL spending sprees were getting out of hand. The Rangers caught a lot of flack because of the Joe Sakic group 2 poaching attempt, but the truth was that the NHL pay rolls were getting out of hand in the UFA market, and that's why the lockout occurred.

The Rangers were spending big money like the rest of the big market and mid market teams. In fact, some years Detroit had a higher payroll.

The reasons the Rangers really stank was the players they bought were not mixed with tehn current young homegrown talent because the coffers had been bare and not replenished since Messier joined in 1991.

Anyway, Lindros was worth a shot, and he played great his first year, but the concussions really caught up to him.

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02-12-2017, 12:31 AM
  #84
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What does that matter to this argument, its about philosophy, and the one I;m backing has produced many Cups - your philosophy has produced how many Cups?
You are a classic neophyte. NHL GMs are not hired and told we want you to lose as many games as possible for 3-7 years and you will stay our GM. Dont worry about creating a losing enviorment. Dont worry about the fans. Dont worry about ticket sales or the franchise having to relocate. Just pretend you are a arm chair Internet GM and lose lose lose. Then we will see how the draftpicks work out in 3-7 years while hoping they dont demand trades to teams that actually try to win games.

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02-12-2017, 12:36 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
You are a classic neophyte. NHL GMs are not hired and told we want you to lose as many games as possible for 3-7 years and you will stay our GM. Dont worry about creating a losing enviorment. Dont worry about the fans. Dont worry about ticket sales or the franchise having to relocate. Just pretend you are a arm chair Internet GM and lose lose lose. Then we will see how the draftpicks work out in 3-7 years while hoping they dont demand trades to teams that actually try to win games.
Only happened once in 1983.

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02-12-2017, 12:37 AM
  #86
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Check mate Nicky!

I get what people want in hindsight for the Rangers to have tanked and rebuilt, but the NHL spending sprees were getting out of hand. The Rangers caught a lot of flack because of the Joe Sakic group 2 poaching attempt, but the truth was that the NHL play rolls were getting out of hand in the UFA market, and that's why the lockout occurred.

The Rangers were spending big money like the rest of the big market and mid market teams. In fact, some years Detroit had a higher payroll.

The reasons the Rangers really stank was the players they bought were not mixed with current talent because the coffers had been bare and not replenished since Messier joined in 1991.

Anyway, Lindros was worth a shot, and he played great his first year, but the concussions really caught up to him.
Some risks work out great. Some work out poorly. You are right that our coffers were bare. Slats had to ice a team while rebuilding our farm at the same time. Somethings like Jagr turned out great.. Some like Lindros were so so. In hindsight Im sure he wishes he did some things differently just like Chi, Pitt, LA and every team in the NHL. The next GM that comes up with a 100% certain method to win a cup will be the first. Look at the difference between the results Torrey had as an Islander and a Panther.

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02-12-2017, 12:41 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Some risks work out great. Some work out poorly. You are right that our coffers were bare. Slats had to ice a team while rebuilding our farm at the same time. Somethings like Jagr turned out great.. Some like Lindros were so so. In hindsight Im sure he wishes he did some things differently just like Chi, Pitt, LA and every team in the NHL. The next GM that comes up with a 100% certain method to win a cup will be the first. Look at the difference between the results Torrey had as an Islander and a Panther.
Slats did "all right" at the helm of the Oilers too. Aside from not thinking Gretzky was too small, if you look at his early Oilers drafts, they are nothing short of remarkable.

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02-12-2017, 12:49 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
You are a classic neophyte. NHL GMs are not hired and told we want you to lose as many games as possible for 3-7 years and you will stay our GM. Dont worry about creating a losing enviorment. Dont worry about the fans. Dont worry about ticket sales or the franchise having to relocate. Just pretend you are a arm chair Internet GM and lose lose lose. Then we will see how the draftpicks work out in 3-7 years while hoping they dont demand trades to teams that actually try to win games.
And you are the classic ignoramus for saying that all I would do is build through the draft,though I NEVER said that. You assumed half of this argument because of bad comprehension

Every team that has won the Cup since Sather took over had a core of homegrown players, something Sather didnt have and didnt make much of an effort to do once he got here, only when the cap came into play did he hire people who knew about the draft.

Lindros and Bure made sure we went from top 5 picks to just outside those picks or later, and for what, those teams were going nowhere, everyone in hockey knew it.

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02-12-2017, 12:50 AM
  #89
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Slats did "all right" at the helm of the Oilers too. Aside from not thinking Gretzky was too small, if you look at his early Oilers drafts, they are nothing short of remarkable.
The draft is a funny thing. Most teams will come up with some great picks and some horrible picks. That even goes for champions.

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02-12-2017, 12:51 AM
  #90
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Slats did "all right" at the helm of the Oilers too. Aside from not thinking Gretzky was too small, if you look at his early Oilers drafts, they are nothing short of remarkable.
The 1980's Sather.

The 1990's Sather teams were the worst at the draft, look it up. I'm guessing thats why he didnt care about the draft much until he failed miserably for 5 years and started to take the draft seriously by hiring guys like Clarke.

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02-12-2017, 12:53 AM
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Look at the difference between the results Torrey had as an Islander and a Panther.
comparing those two teams in two different eras.

And the kicker is, Torrey got the Panthers to the finals in 3 years !

You joking or what?

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02-12-2017, 12:55 AM
  #92
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The draft is a funny thing. Most teams will come up with some great picks and some horrible picks. That even goes for champions.
But the Champions ALL bottomed out FIRST. They didnt trade or sign their core, their core came from the draft. Do your homework Nicky F oti u

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02-12-2017, 12:57 AM
  #93
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And you are the classic ignoramus for saying that all I would do is build through the draft,though I NEVER said that. You assumed half of this argument because of bad comprehension

Every team that has won the Cup since Sather took over had a core of homegrown players, something Sather didnt have and didnt make much of an effort to do once he got here, only when the cap came into play did he hire people who knew about the draft.

Lindros and Bure made sure we went from top 5 picks to just outside those picks or later, and for what, those teams were going nowhere, everyone in hockey knew it.
I hate to break this news to you but almost every team that is terrible also has a core of players that are homegrown. We have a core of players that were home grown. The AVs who we played tonight have a core of home grown players. You might as well have just said every team that won the cup has a coach or every team that has won a cup has players that are male.

Anyway since you are the expert on winning cups I'd like you to prove it. Get on the phone to your GM friend who won 3 cups and taught you how to win cups. Tell him you want a meeting with Dolan or any other NHL team. Go to that meeting and prove that you know how to win cups and get yourself hired. Now that would be hard for me to do but since you know exactly how to win cups and can prove it you should not have any problem getting hired. Hopefully by this time next week you will be instructing Gorton on how to win cups.

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02-12-2017, 01:02 AM
  #94
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The 1980's Sather.

The 1990's Sather teams were the worst at the draft, look it up. I'm guessing thats why he didnt care about the draft much until he failed miserably for 5 years and started to take the draft seriously by hiring guys like Clarke.
Idk. The scouting was all screwed up after the Peter Pocklington issue and he did draft Jason Arnott and Ryan Symth back to back.

Also, having to sell all of your players threw a monkey wrench into the game plan too.

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02-12-2017, 01:07 AM
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I hate to break this news to you but almost every team that is terrible also has a core of players that are homegrown. We have a core of players that were home grown. The AVs who we played tonight have a core of home grown players. You might as well have just said every team that won the cup has a coach or every team that has won a cup has players that are male.

Anyway since you are the expert on winning cups I'd like you to prove it. Get on the phone to your GM friend who won 3 cups and taught you how to win cups. Tell him you want a meeting with Dolan or any other NHL team. Go to that meeting and prove that you know how to win cups and get yourself hired. Now that would be hard for me to do but since you know exactly how to win cups and can prove it you should not have any problem getting hired. Hopefully by this time next week you will be instructing Gorton on how to win cups.

Never said that leads to instant success, just proves to be alot more successful than signing and trading for players who are past their prime. Then you made this into 'oh its a definite surefire way of winning a cup'

History proved the scenario to be right, Lindros and Bure were bad ideas for a franchise that needed to be rebuilt, and if Sather had started a rebuild in those years Lundqvist wouldnt have walked onto a team bare of any guys his age he could grow with, or guys that could be dealt for established players like all Cup teams have done, horrible asset management.

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02-12-2017, 01:10 AM
  #96
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comparing those two teams in two different eras.

And the kicker is, Torrey got the Panthers to the finals in 3 years !

You joking or what?
Funny how Fla getting to the finals and SJ getting to the finals is a big deal but when we get to the finals you find a way to overlook it. I guess Torrey must have tanked his way to the finals in 3 years since that is the only way for a GM to get to the finals. Oh wait I remember almost all of Florida's Stanley Cup players were not drafted by Florida. How could they make the finals without tanking and having an all home grown core that was all drafted by them? Something is not adding up. You seem to be contradicting yourself for the 12th time in this thread.

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02-12-2017, 01:15 AM
  #97
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Idk. The scouting was all screwed up after the Peter Pocklington issue and he did draft Jason Arnott and Ryan Symth back to back.

Also, having to sell all of your players threw a monkey wrench into the game plan too.
Arnott and Smyth were legit picks, after that they had about 8 players from their 90's drafts went on to play 500 or more games in the NHL, mostly for other teams mind you. And yes the Oilers were in bad shape with ownership, but when you look at how many picks they had, its one of the worst of all the league. They had acquired a ton of picks by selling off the dynasty, in 94 alone they had 16 picks ! 12 players in a decade is pretty bad when you figure they had the most or near the top when it came to the amount of picks.

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02-12-2017, 01:19 AM
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Funny how Fla getting to the finals and SJ getting to the finals is a big deal but when we get to the finals you find a way to overlook it. I guess Torrey must have tanked his way to the finals in 3 years since that is the only way for a GM to get to the finals. Oh wait I remember almost all of Florida's Stanley Cup players were not drafted by Florida. How could they make the finals without tanking and having an all home grown core that was all drafted by them? Something is not adding up. You seem to be contradicting yourself for the 12th time in this thread.
Florida had Jovo and Rob Niedermayer


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02-12-2017, 01:20 AM
  #99
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Arnott and Smyth were legit picks, after that they had about 8 players from their 90's drafts went on to play 500 or more games in the NHL, mostly for other teams mind you. And yes the Oilers were in bad shape with ownership, but when you look at how many picks they had, its one of the worst of all the league. They had acquired a ton of picks by selling off the dynasty, in 94 alone they had 16 picks ! 12 players in a decade is pretty bad when you figure they had the most or near the top when it came to the amount of picks.
I'm agreeing that the draft record was bad, but I was pointing out the ******** going on there because a different yet equally bad dynamic was going on in the Rangers management as well as other high cap team before the lockout.

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02-12-2017, 01:21 AM
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I'm agreeing that the draft record was bad, but I was pointing out the ******** going on there because a different yet equally bad dynamic was going on in the Rangers management as well as other high cap team before the lockout.
????

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