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Roster Building Thread Part XXXVI: Defense wins championships & we don't have any!!

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Old
02-13-2017, 10:33 AM
  #101
Zil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
I think we all agree that Dan Girardi needs to transition to his new career testing prototype bulletproof vest models for the military.

Av has scratched both Klein and Girardi, so I doubt that the concern about a new dman sending, say Skjei to the press box is warranted. In addition, it isn't unrealistic to consider that Klein may well be part of a deadline deal himself.
Girardi plays on the top pairing whenever he's in the lineup. The only time AV scratches him is when he's hurt.

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Old
02-13-2017, 10:51 AM
  #102
TheTakedown
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Both Vatanen and Shattenkirk fit this team well.

If you can:
Move one of Nash/Zucc, either directly for Vatanen or acquire assets to acquire Vatanen.
Buyout Girardi
Move/Buyout Klein (Buyout only if there are no takers, but I think you could get a throwaway propsect for Klein, would work well as a salary cap clearing move)
Move Staal, even if Salary has to be retained
Play Holden on the left
Sign Shattenkirk

You can end up like this:

McDonagh-Vatanen
Holden-Shattenkirk
Skjei-Clendening

That's an INSANE defensive corps considering the cap hits. gives us two more years of McD at $4.7M. He'll need a raise to about $7M, but it'll be worth it

To Echo NYRViper's posts, I too like Brendan Smith. Great fancy stats on a terrible DET team


Last edited by TheTakedown: 02-13-2017 at 11:00 AM.
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Old
02-13-2017, 11:05 AM
  #103
Oscar Lindberg
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I've seen on Twitter that Freidman is saying Tampa wants a 1st for Boyle

They can keep him for that price. Anyone who pays that is an idiot

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:27 AM
  #104
What Door
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar Lindberg View Post
I've seen on Twitter that Freidman is saying Tampa wants a 1st for Boyle

They can keep him for that price. Anyone who pays that is an idiot
That's just the "buy it now" price. I doubt any team seriously entertains paying that. I could, however, see Boyle Garnering a 2nd and maybe a 4th at the TDL.

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:28 AM
  #105
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by What Door View Post
That's just the "buy it now" price. I doubt any team seriously entertains paying that. I could, however, see Boyle Garnering a 2nd and maybe a 4th at the TDL.
Still not worth it.

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:38 AM
  #106
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I see my calls for good humor today have brought out the chuckles...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar Lindberg View Post
Vatanen is not even on the same level as Trouba or Klingberg

I get what you're saying but there would be a significant add with Vatanen as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
He's likely the only one who is actually available though. Klingberg is a **** show defensively. He just happens to drive an absurd amount of shot attempts as well. Trouba would be a fantastic addition, but with the uncertainty around Tyler Myers, he could very well be staying in Winnipeg long term.

Vatanen is having a bad year, but he's a strong 2nd pairing defender on a good contract who is in the prime of his career. He plays all situations as well; Which means the coaches wouldn't have an issue giving him those kind of minutes over, say, a certain veteran defender who is composed of 74.3% scar tissue.
have to agree Klingy is 1 dimensional pricey luxury we can't afford/don't want
With ya on Vats/Trouba at right price


Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Funny thing is that I'm pretty sure there quite a few posters willing to give up Kreider straight up for Vatanen as recent as this past summer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Some call it funny, i call it sad and ignorant.
now, now, let us be kind and magnanimous in having gotten that right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
What could we get for Kreider today?

ha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Gorden View Post
The entire New Jersey Devils organization.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
I'll pass.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Bern- Happy birthday! I think your proposals are crazy (just too many names involved! ), but I definitely appreciate your comments on moves which always are insightful!
Thanks Ola. your posts are both often insightful and entertaining


Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
I think we all agree that Dan Girardi needs to transition to his new career testing prototype bulletproof vest models for the military.

Av has scratched both Klein and Girardi, so I doubt that the concern about a new dman sending, say Skjei to the press box is warranted. In addition, it isn't unrealistic to consider that Klein may well be part of a deadline deal himself.
lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Girardi plays on the top pairing whenever he's in the lineup. The only time AV scratches him is when he's hurt.
I wonder...
if we paid all coach salary and max 50% player sal
could we do AV AND Girardi to LV
for
a 2nd, + they take Tanner Glass in the draft?

then we sign Julien

just a thought

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:39 AM
  #107
RGY
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Boyle is going to be moved for a 3rd round pick and mid level prospect/buy low prospect.

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:40 AM
  #108
What Door
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Still not worth it.
Certainly not to us. But, to a team with a need, it's not outrageous. Boyle clearly elevates his game in the playoffs, is great on draws, and is a very good PKer. That has value many teams in this league.

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:47 AM
  #109
SA16
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I think I'm missing something regarding the whole Boyle "elevating his game in the playoffs" narrative.

From 2010-2016 in the regular season he has:
CF60 52.4
CA60 54.9
xGF60 2.51
xGA60 2.33
GF60 1.84
GA60 2.06
G/60 0.65
A/60 0.60

Same time frame in the playoffs (he was in them every year) he has
CF60 48.6
CA60 62.1
xGF60 2.19
xGA60 2.50
GF60 1.13
GA60 1.94
G/60 0.59
A/60 0.27

So what exactly has he elevated? He's been not only worse but SIGNIFICANTLY worse in essentially every single stat in the playoffs compared to the regular season.

Even in just his Ranger playoff years the team was outshot by a massive 749-549 margin and outscored 23-15 with him on the ice.

I am pretty sure this is just the case of the big guy looking like a hard worker so people create false narratives around him because he appears to be exerting a ton of effort. There is no objective data that says he elevates his game in the playoffs. If anything you would say he's a major detriment in them.

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:51 AM
  #110
Geoff Gorden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Boyle is going to be moved for a 3rd round pick and mid level prospect/buy low prospect.
He would return the value of a 2nd easily.

Great on draws, one of the best PK forwards in the league who has scored some big goals in the playoffs.

Just as a reference point, Teddy Purcell and Mike Weber both returned a 3rd last year, Winnick (year left on his contract) returned a 2nd AND Connor Carrick.

If Boyle gets moved, his value will be closer to a 1st (he may even return that.)

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:54 AM
  #111
What Door
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
So what exactly has he elevated? He's been not only worse but SIGNIFICANTLY worse in essentially every single stat in the playoffs compared to the regular season.
Padding those RS stats is the fact that 50% of those games are against trashbag teams.

Boyle steps up his game in the playoffs. Comparing RS to Playoff stat lines is pointless. The teams are better in the playoffs.

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Old
02-13-2017, 11:56 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What Door View Post
Padding those RS stats are the fact that 50% of those games are against trashbag teams.

Boyle steps up his game in the playoffs. Comparing RS to Playoff stat lines is pointless.
Then explain why this is not the case for all players with significant sample size. It's irrelevant. You can even pretend I didn't write anything about his regular season numbers. His playoff numbers are terrible on their own.


Stepan played on all those same playoff teams. He didn't have the same issue. Neither has Nash. Nor Callahan. Nor McDonagh.

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:01 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Still not worth it.
Trading deadline value is sometimes crazy. Some teams lose their senses compared to what a guy would go for in the offseason. I doubt Boyle brings a #1 but I would not be shocked if somebody overpays for him. Arizona played the Vermette situation so well a couple of seasons ago. They traded him to Chicago as a 39 game rental for a #1 and then resigned him again 5 months later.

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:06 PM
  #114
wafflepadsave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar Lindberg View Post
I've seen on Twitter that Freidman is saying Tampa wants a 1st for Boyle

They can keep him for that price. Anyone who pays that is an idiot
You mean like sather?

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:08 PM
  #115
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The market price at the deadline is whatever a team is willing to pay. Boyle is a great role player, and that's something teams always want at the deadline. It's simple supply and demand, and sometimes that dictates a 1st round pick for an average role player. See: Gaustad, Paul.

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:11 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The market price at the deadline is whatever a team is willing to pay. Boyle is a great role player, and that's something teams always want at the deadline. It's simple supply and demand, and sometimes that dictates a 1st round pick for an average role player. See: Gaustad, Paul.
That is true. Nobody would pay $100 for a pizza today but if they were stranded on an island for a year with only coconuts they would gladly pay the $100.

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:12 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Then explain why this is not the case for all players with significant sample size. It's irrelevant. You can even pretend I didn't write anything about his regular season numbers. His playoff numbers are terrible on their own.


Stepan played on all those same playoff teams. He didn't have the same issue. Neither has Nash. Nor Callahan. Nor McDonagh.
Do you have time to grab Boyle's relative to team numbers in regular season and playoffs? This is really interesting stuff.

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:16 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I wonder...
if we paid all coach salary and max 50% player sal
could we do AV AND Girardi to LV
for
a 2nd, + they take Tanner Glass in the draft?

then we sign Julien

just a thought
Since it's your birthday I shall be nice. LV declines politely.

Happy birthday bern, you definitely make this place more colorful.

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:19 PM
  #119
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Acquiring BB would be like buying a new anchor for your boat that has 3 holes in it.

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:21 PM
  #120
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Acquiring BB would be like buying a new anchor for your boat that has 3 holes in it.
So you plan to break the new anchor in to 3 pieces to plug the holes?

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:25 PM
  #121
Glen Sathers Cigar
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You mean like sather?
When did Sather trade a 1st rounder for a 4th liner on an expiring contract?

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:27 PM
  #122
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If Brian Boyle gets a 1st at the deadline and Gorton doesn't trade Grabner then

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:37 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Montreal is not winning their division. Too many holes. If Montreal was in the Metro, they'd be outside of the playoffs. They are on par with the Flyers and Islanders.

Ottawa has a better points percentage than them over the season now. Ottawa does need to win their games in hand in order to be ahead in the final version of the standings.

Unless Price gets red hot, which is entirely possible, I don't think we'll be facing them. Ottawa is much more likely. Boston has the next best chance behind Ottawa at winning it.

I think we'd be Montreal. I think Ottawa would be a long series with Anderson in nets for them. We'd get crushed by Boston.
Think at least one of the Florida teams will be in the POs
Time will tell

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Old
02-13-2017, 12:59 PM
  #124
SA16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyjee View Post
Do you have time to grab Boyle's relative to team numbers in regular season and playoffs? This is really interesting stuff.
When I get home from work. The lunch break isn't long enough haha.

Not that I buy the concept of "playoff performer" but looking back I don't exactly see how he was one

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Old
02-13-2017, 01:00 PM
  #125
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Do folks see this team making it to the finals and winning it all this season? Are they one or two players away from doing that?
Seeing a lot of proposals that wouldn't necessarily take the team over the top to make a deep run. Personally, I don't think they'll get out of the 2nd round if they make it that far.
I think the Rangers should be smart sellers at the deadline. I'd start with trading Nash and Klein... with Nash you know what to expect come playoffs, it wouldn't hurt to shed the salary and get back some value while its still possible and to be honest I don't think they would miss Nash that much come the playoffs. See what you get from trading Nash then definitely offer up Grabner to see whats out there in terms of a return. This season Grabner is actually playing as if he switched bodies with Nash. I'd try and hold on to him but he holds a ton of value for a team going for a big push. Get rid of some dead weight in salary and look how things shape up in the offseason.
Now, enter the keep Rick Nash responses...

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