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Most overrated player in the NHL

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Old
02-17-2017, 05:35 AM
  #401
Plural
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Malkin is not overrated. But I do think he is injury prone and that takes away his value a bit. He's still likely the second best offensive player in the world (could argue McDavid).

Compared to Toews, who is maybe the most overrated player in the history of the game, these two don't compare.

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Old
02-17-2017, 06:57 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Ah yes. The binary defensive scale. Either you win the selke or are the exact same as everyone else. Never change hf.
Is that what i said? how amIi to objectively rank defensive play, and if i did, Toews would never be the top guy, that'd be patrice. But when those two go head to head in a poll, toews is better because points. And if it's kopitar, toews is just better because some magical reason.

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02-17-2017, 07:20 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by The Toews Era View Post
Yeah. Four separate lists of top 10 points, ppg, blah blah. Where were the four lists of corsi, gf%, etc? Nope its just one category - winning a selke or not. Lmfao
so you'd agree that,
Marchand, Thornton, and both Sedins are better than toews over the last 9 years?
all have better p/60, gf%reltm, and cf%reltm at 5v5 zsadj.....I'm actually assuming you don't think that, and will provide some ******** reason why your logic doesn't apply in the cases of these players

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02-17-2017, 08:05 AM
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladyyn View Post
Kopitar has less points than Toews but people don't ride him into the ground, curious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanZ View Post
Because Kopitar isn't overrated.
If the masses are riding Toews into the ground, than how is he being overrated? Toews gets bashed on HFBoards all the time, he's definitely not overrated at this point.

By definition, an "overrated" player should be someone that the majority of people on here think is very good, not someone who gets criticized all the time.

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02-17-2017, 10:59 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
In the past 5 years Geno has played 20 games less than Toews.
Really? Then why are his counting stats so similar in the past 5 years to Toews while not being anything like the defensive player?

Everyone remembers as the player he was in his first 6 years. In the past 5, he's been overrated just like Toews.

Every argument for Malkin goes back to his first 6 years. Its's not 2011-2012 anymore. Heck, every Toews fan would love to point to his early years too.

Every excuse I hear for Malkin ...
* You can't blame him for the injuries.
* Look at his awards (it's all from his 1st six years).
* In the past 5 years, his counting stats are similar to Toews while being the lesser defensive player.
* The average Toews' salary vs Malkin's salary since 2012 to the present lower than Malkin's. Current salary: Toews $10.5mn / Malkin $9.5mn.


If Toews is overrated, Malkin is not far behind. It's amazing to hear all the Malkin excuses for the past 5 years. He's underperformed / underproduced and overpaid for the last 5 years ... but his "fans" continue to point to his 1st six years in the league. That's the definition of overrated.

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02-17-2017, 11:16 AM
  #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piteus View Post
Really? Then why are his counting stats so similar in the past 5 years to Toews while not being anything like the defensive player?
Their stats are not similar, at all. Geno has played a whopping 20 games less than Toews over the last 5 years and has scored 50 more points in the time span. His scoring is in line with his career average. You're entire premise of bashing Geno is based on him missing games. Well, he plays just 4 less games per season than Toews.

This season Geno is 5th in the league in points and 2nd in points per game. Toews is 97th.

You can twist stats and throw out hypotheticals all you want but Toews is not remotely close to Geno. Not this season, not in the past 5 seasons, and certainly not career wise.

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02-17-2017, 11:18 AM
  #407
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Title should just be Toews discussion because no one is close to as overrated as he is.

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02-17-2017, 11:25 AM
  #408
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Old
02-17-2017, 11:26 AM
  #409
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Remember last night when Toews put his team on his back and carried them to victory? Good times.

Malkin responded to what he felt like were exceptions to he and his teammates, started firing back, and torched the Jets to get his team a win. Yet another night of Malkin being the single most dominant player on the ice. Sign me up to be "overrated" by piteus' standards...

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02-17-2017, 11:33 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Rocket of Russia View Post
Remember last night when Toews put his team on his back and carried them to victory? Good times.

Malkin responded to what he felt like were exceptions to he and his teammates, started firing back, and torched the Jets to get his team a win. Yet another night of Malkin being the single most dominant player on the ice. Sign me up to be "overrated" by piteus' standards...
Oh ... are we going to start using "intangibles" in this argument? I got it. Malkin intangibles > Toews intangibles. LOL.

BTW, I didn't "make up" these standards. I'm just using the standards this thread and what the main board maintains. By their measurements, if Toews is overrated, Malkin isn't far behind. Don't be mad at me ... your disagreement should be directed at them.

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02-17-2017, 11:39 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Rocket of Russia View Post
Remember last night when Toews put his team on his back and carried them to victory? Good times.

Malkin responded to what he felt like were exceptions to he and his teammates, started firing back, and torched the Jets to get his team a win. Yet another night of Malkin being the single most dominant player on the ice. Sign me up to be "overrated" by piteus' standards...
By the way, didn't Toews just do that last week on the only game of the night ... against the best team in the West ... in their rink ... and led the Hawks to victory? However, let's just ignore that but use Malkin's performance against the Jets.

If Toews is overrated, Malkin isn't far behind.

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Old
02-17-2017, 01:02 PM
  #412
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"Intangibles" is a term people use to pretend inferior players are better than they really are.

Geno is a top 3 player in the world. Toews is 97th in the NHL in points.

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02-17-2017, 01:10 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
"Intangibles" is a term people use to pretend inferior players are better than they really are.

Geno is a top 3 player in the world. Toews is 97th in the NHL in points.
I didn't bring up "intangibles." A Malkin fan did. LOL.

So Geno is now a top 3 player in the world. His "counting stats" certainly don't suggest that ... certainly not in the last 5 years.

Let me revise my hypothesis. Based on this board's measurements, if Toews is overrated ... Malkin is more overrated than Toews. Top 3 player in the world.

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Old
02-17-2017, 02:03 PM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piteus View Post
I didn't bring up "intangibles." A Malkin fan did. LOL.

So Geno is now a top 3 player in the world. His "counting stats" certainly don't suggest that ... certainly not in the last 5 years.

Let me revise my hypothesis. Based on this board's measurements, if Toews is overrated ... Malkin is more overrated than Toews. Top 3 player in the world.
His stats say he's 5th in the league in points (2nd in points per game), and that he's 14th all time in points per game.

Geno also has the 4th highest points per game average over the last 3 years. Toews is 41st.

I see you're not defending Toews' lack of scoring. Yet you still try to compare him to Geno.

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02-17-2017, 02:15 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
His stats say he's 5th in the league in points (2nd in points per game), and that he's 14th all time in points per game.

Geno also has the 4th highest points per game average over the last 3 years. Toews is 41st.

I see you're not defending Toews' lack of scoring. Yet you still try to compare him to Geno.
Pittsburgh should have had more cups. Malkin had stretches of disappearing and Crosby was wildly inconsistent in the playoffs because of injuries. You can possibly blame the coaching though, Bylsma was awful.

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02-17-2017, 02:16 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by piteus View Post
I didn't bring up "intangibles." A Malkin fan did. LOL.

So Geno is now a top 3 player in the world. His "counting stats" certainly don't suggest that ... certainly not in the last 5 years.

Let me revise my hypothesis. Based on this board's measurements, if Toews is overrated ... Malkin is more overrated than Toews. Top 3 player in the world.
You seem to not want to acknowledge your overrating of Toews but would rather muddy the waters instead.

Are saying that Malkin is not Top 3 of his era and should not be ranked ahead of Toews all-time?

And what is your fascination with the last 5 years? Almost everyone acknowledges that Malkin's injuries over the past five years cannot be ignored but still see him as a Top 3-5 talent.

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02-17-2017, 02:23 PM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
His stats say he's 5th in the league in points (2nd in points per game), and that he's 14th all time in points per game.

Geno also has the 4th highest points per game average over the last 3 years. Toews is 41st.

I see you're not defending Toews' lack of scoring. Yet you still try to compare him to Geno.
I'm not defending Toews. Geno is 4th highest in PPG WHEN he's playing. LOL. Durability is part of one's greatness. What the difference if you don't play vs. being irrelevant on the ice? At least on the ice, you're still eating up ice time and a body.

You're the one attacking Toews. I concede Toews is overrated. Looking at the gross counting stats, Malkin is really not much better than Toews in the last 5 years. And everyone will agree Toews is the better defensive player.

The definition of being overrated: when people perceive someone better than they really are. Malkin is continually remembered for his first 6 years than what he is now. All his awards came in the first 6 years ... but he continues to be paid $9.5mn for past performance. Excuses are made for the many times can't play. Malkin fans believe he's top 3 in the world. That is the definition of being overrated.

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02-17-2017, 02:25 PM
  #418
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02-17-2017, 02:34 PM
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piteus View Post
I'm not defending Toews. Geno is 4th highest in PPG WHEN he's playing. LOL. Durability is part of one's greatness. What the difference if you don't play vs. being irrelevant on the ice? At least on the ice, you're still eating up ice time and a body.

You're the one attacking Toews. I concede Toews is overrated. Looking at the gross counting stats, Malkin is really not much better than Toews in the last 5 years. And everyone will agree Toews is the better defensive player.

The definition of being overrated: when people perceive someone better than they really are. Malkin is continually remembered for his first 6 years than what he is now. All his awards came in the first 6 years ... but he continues to be paid $9.5mn for past performance. Excuses are made for the many times can't play. Malkin fans believe he's top 3 in the world. That is the definition of being overrated.
Geno plays 4 less games per season than Toews. And has significantly outproduced Toews throughout their careers.

Geno is elite in every definition of the word. Only you refuse to see that

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02-17-2017, 02:38 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by daver View Post
You seem to not want to acknowledge your overrating of Toews but would rather muddy the waters instead.

Are saying that Malkin is not Top 3 of his era and should not be ranked ahead of Toews all-time?

And what is your fascination with the last 5 years? Almost everyone acknowledges that Malkin's injuries over the past five years cannot be ignored but still see him as a Top 3-5 talent.
Who's ignoring his talent? Potential does not equal reality. Malkin has not produced in the past 5 years but people still try to recognize him as a top 3-5 player AND he's also paid as such. That's the definition of being overrated.

If you think Malkin should be rated ahead of Toews all time. It's fine. That's your opinion. However, Malkin is NOT so easily considered the "superior" player to Toews. If he was, there wouldn't be so much debate.

Regardless, I'm not even arguing that point. This thread is about being overrated. By the measurement of the main board, if Toews is overrated, so is Malkin. IF some of you still believe Malkin is a top 3 player the world, then he's far more overrated than Toews.

There's no muddying the waters. It's about being consistent and using the same metrics for all to come to a conclusion. That's being fair. At no point do I argue Toews is NOT overrated using the same measurements. I'm just using the main board's assumptions. No excuses ... counting stats production vs. perception. It is what it is. Malkin is overrated.

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02-17-2017, 02:41 PM
  #421
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Has anybody said Jonathan Toews is overrated yet? Because he's overrated.

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02-17-2017, 02:42 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by sjsharks92 View Post
Has anybody said Jonathan Toews is overrated yet? Because he's overrated.
1 Stanley cup=500 points

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02-17-2017, 02:43 PM
  #423
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1 Stanley cup=500 points
He's a top 100 player you know.

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02-17-2017, 02:47 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by sjsharks92 View Post
Has anybody said Jonathan Toews is overrated yet? Because he's overrated.
We all have ... which implies he's not anymore. However, some people believe Malkin is a Top 3 Player in the World. With his salary, injuries, and production the past 5 years ... vs. people's insistence of remembering the Malkin of his first 6 years ... Malkin is overrated.

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02-17-2017, 02:49 PM
  #425
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Wait so are people now starting to think Malkin is not top 3 of the generation?

If he isn't.. who is?

Is it Patrick Kane? I think there is a pretty good case for it, lead the Blackhawks to 3 cups, 1 CS, a hart, an art ross, two 1st team all stars and possibly a 3rd this year..

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