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Malkin's ridiculous patience (upd: back at it)

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Old
02-17-2017, 05:28 AM
  #101
daver
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
I'm just of the opinion his career would have been better individual awards/recognition/stats wise if he was THE man. Stanley Cups would have of course depended on the team.
He has been in a pretty good situation to produce. Facing secondary defensive units, being on the PP with an all-time great player, given prime offensive starts, not asked to play a defensive role.

Can't see why we haven't seen the best that he could have done offensively. It's not like we look back at Forsberg/Sakic or Federov/Yzerman and ask "what could have been?" if they played on separate teams.

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02-17-2017, 07:24 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by orby View Post
I honestly believe malkin doesn't care about being #2 behind Sid. I think he absolutely loves Sid, and he's also become a very beloved part of Pittsburgh culture himself. Aside from some media irritants, everyone loves Geno and he's had a ton of success here.
I don't believe any rumor that ever said that Geno was looking to leave Pittsburgh because he wants to be a #1 center somewhere else. I think he loves Pittsburgh and he loves playing with Sid. IMO both Sid and Geno want to keep playing with the organization as long as the organization wants them. If Geno ever does leave it will be management's choice, not Geno's.

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02-17-2017, 07:27 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by OldMilIce View Post
That was an unbelievable play. The calmness and presence of mind to get that second touch on the puck when it comes through Trouba's legs is unreal. Malkin is definitely #101.
I get the point you're making that he is #101. But I'd honestly put him somewhere between 50 and 80. It shouldn't have even been a question that he made the top 100

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02-17-2017, 07:41 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Shoofyou10 View Post
I get the point you're making that he is #101. But I'd honestly put him somewhere between 50 and 80. It shouldn't have even been a question that he made the top 100
I think he's a lock for top 50

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02-17-2017, 07:47 AM
  #105
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Meh. Chippy player lays questionable hit due to a small hop before contact. I can't even see this getting looked at honestly.

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02-17-2017, 07:49 AM
  #106
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What a fantastic move and play to set up Sid and the Winner!!!

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02-17-2017, 07:49 AM
  #107
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Wrong thread
Lol! Oops. But he does have some awesome patience. Did it again last night in OT.

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02-17-2017, 07:49 AM
  #108
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He has been in a pretty good situation to produce. Facing secondary defensive units, being on the PP with an all-time great player, given prime offensive starts, not asked to play a defensive role.

Can't see why we haven't seen the best that he could have done offensively. It's not like we look back at Forsberg/Sakic or Federov/Yzerman and ask "what could have been?" if they played on separate teams.
Which obviously explains why he has much better stats when Sid is out of the lineup (so facing 1st units and without benefiting from Sid's "help") over a significant sample of 120-130 games.....so try better, Daver

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02-17-2017, 07:50 AM
  #109
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I think he's a lock for top 50
All-time? He is in the Top 20-25ish range for Centres, so Top 50 forwards is a better spot.

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02-17-2017, 08:01 AM
  #110
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I know Malkin and Sid are friends but I really don't know how Malkin has been fine with being the #2 guy in pittsburgh for 12 years. Players thst good usually want to be the man and are very competitive in that aspect. He's going to retire never knowing what it was like to have his own team.

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02-17-2017, 08:16 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by yuri28 View Post
Which obviously explains why he has much better stats when Sid is out of the lineup (so facing 1st units and without benefiting from Sid's "help") over a significant sample of 120-130 games.....so try better, Daver
And he has had over 600 games of facing secondary d-units. What's your point? You would think that if Malkin was better than his numbers indicate he would have shown that by now after 11 seasons?

Being the #2C certainly didn't hold back players like Messier, Sakic, or Federov. It's pretty ridiculous to think that Makin's full potential hasn't been reached yet or that his situation is so unique. Maybe he has thrived being #2. Maybe he has even more injuries if he was #1C.

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02-17-2017, 08:17 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by yuri28 View Post
Which obviously explains why he has much better stats when Sid is out of the lineup (so facing 1st units and without benefiting from Sid's "help") over a significant sample of 120-130 games.....so try better, Daver
And Malkin's 2011/12 season went from being very good to great when Crosby returned at the end of the year. His PPG jumped from 1.38 to 1.45 over the last 14 games.

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02-17-2017, 08:18 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Leafs at Knight View Post
Trouba got embarrassed.
League will be getting embarrassed for leaving him off the top-100 for a while. Probably the most ridiculously blatant snub in the history of snubs.

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02-17-2017, 08:23 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ageless66 View Post
I know Malkin and Sid are friends but I really don't know how Malkin has been fine with being the #2 guy in pittsburgh for 12 years. Players thst good usually want to be the man and are very competitive in that aspect. He's going to retire never knowing what it was like to have his own team.
Not everyone wants to be that guy. No one can seriously say Malkin isn't ultra competitive and a great success story as a player, despite his never having been an NHL captain.

In any case Crosby's extremely limited season in 2011-12, when Malkin scored 50 and won the ross playing on the first line with Kunitz and Neal, was essentially a window into a world where Geno was captain anyway. We've seen it.

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02-17-2017, 08:31 AM
  #115
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This is why people wan't to see Malkin with different team


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02-17-2017, 08:41 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by ruunto71 View Post
This is why people wan't to see Malkin with different team

You should look at those numbers up until 2011/12 since scoring has gone down since then and remove Malkin's rookie season. Malkin's PPG from 07/08 to 10/11 is 1.22. A significant amount of time with Crosby has been written off as Malkin playing injured too. Malkin's best full season and playoffs came in 2008/09 with Crosby.

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02-17-2017, 08:47 AM
  #117
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And Malkin's 2011/12 season went from being very good to great when Crosby returned at the end of the year. His PPG jumped from 1.38 to 1.45 over the last 14 games.
Are you ****ing serious there?
So for you, a ppg of 1.38 is not already great in current era??
Your love of Sid is making you say some really stupid things and you're not even aware of this.
If the people who voted for the 100 best players of all time were like you, no wonder a guy like Geno was left out.

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02-17-2017, 08:50 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by daver View Post
He has been in a pretty good situation to produce. Facing secondary defensive units, being on the PP with an all-time great player, given prime offensive starts, not asked to play a defensive role.

Can't see why we haven't seen the best that he could have done offensively. It's not like we look back at Forsberg/Sakic or Federov/Yzerman and ask "what could have been?" if they played on separate teams.
I disagree.

Fedorov's career, especialy post-96, would have been very different had he not been on a team with an aging Stevie Y. For example, in 97 Fedorov's linemates would have been (and should have been, it can be argued, since he had beaten Yzerman in scoring 3 years straight) a prime 47 Goal Shanahan, if Stevie Y hadn't been the designated 1C. That beats having AHL Doug Brown/Slava Kozlov there for sure.

The same argument could be applied to Malkin. Though with Malkin, it can also be argued that his injuries (which cost him some trophies already) would have hampered him either way.

As for Malkin's 11-12 year, his "jump" also had to do with him only scoring 14 points in the first 13 games of the year, and missing practices/several games early in the season, due to recovering from his offseason ACL surgery.

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02-17-2017, 08:51 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by daver View Post
You should look at those numbers up until 2011/12 since scoring has gone down since then and remove Malkin's rookie season. Malkin's PPG from 07/08 to 10/11 is 1.22. A significant amount of time with Crosby has been written off as Malkin playing injured too. Malkin's best full season and playoffs came in 2008/09 with Crosby.
The fact still remains that over a significant amount of games, he has a much better ppg without Sid than with him so that double kills your argument which was that Geno hugely benefited from facing secondary units and from playing with Sid on PP.
One thing that is unquantifiable though and that Geno has probably hugely benefited from playing in the same team as Sid has been Sid's work ethic and incredibly high expectations about himself and his teammates.
Probably that it helped Geno hugely in his development as a player and nothing says he would have developped as well in another team without a superstar with that huge work ethic in that other team


Last edited by yuri28: 02-17-2017 at 09:14 AM.
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02-17-2017, 08:57 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by ruunto71 View Post
This is why people wan't to see Malkin with different team

What is interesting and something i wasn't aware is that Sid's ppg is in other hand worse without Malkin than with him.
The Sid/Geno debate about who is better reminds me a lot the Greztsky/Mario debate (at a lesser level of course) : one has probably a better peak and more fun to watch (Mario/Geno) but the other one is more consistent and perhaps a bit more clutch and mentally tough (Wayne/Sid).

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02-17-2017, 09:11 AM
  #121
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Malkin's ppg collapsed in 2010-2012 because he played through injuries and had absolutely terrible line mates. On the other hand after 2013 Malkin has had probably better line mates on average than Crosby

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02-17-2017, 09:19 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by yuri28 View Post
The fact still remains that over a significant amount of games, he has a much better ppg without Sid than with him so that double kills your argument which was that Geno hugely benefited from facing secondary units and from playing with Sid on PP.
I didn't say that he hugely benefited from it. That's a strawman.

IMO, his numbers speak for themselves and I routinely defend claims made by others that his numbers are inflated because he routinely faces secondary units. I just don't think he would do any better if he was the #1C or "the Man" on another team.

You always point towards injuries as the reason why his PPG went down in 09/10 and 10/11 but now you want to ignore that to fit your narrative.

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02-17-2017, 09:23 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by yuri28 View Post
What is interesting and something i wasn't aware is that Sid's ppg is in other hand worse without Malkin than with him.
The Sid/Geno debate about who is better reminds me a lot the Greztsky/Mario debate (at a lesser level of course) : one has probably a better peak and more fun to watch (Mario/Geno) but the other one is more consistent and perhaps a bit more clutch and mentally tough (Wayne/Sid).
Most of Malkin's missed time has come when scoring has been lower. Crosby has been at his best when Malkin is underperforming/underproducing like 2006/07, 2009/10, 2010/11 and 2012/13.

Mario and Wayne are at the same level. Crosby and Malkin are not.

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02-17-2017, 09:24 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet View Post
The same argument could be applied to Malkin. Though with Malkin, it can also be argued that his injuries (which cost him some trophies already) would have hampered him either way.
Which ones?

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02-17-2017, 09:44 AM
  #125
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Which ones?
Definitely the Ross in 2013-2014. Was tied for first in points the day he went down with injury.

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