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Matt Murray Calder Talk?

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Old
02-15-2017, 10:02 AM
  #1
stepdad gaary
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Matt Murray Calder Talk?

Should Matt Murray be put in the discussion for Calder? I'd say he's easily in the top 3 right now.


He's 3rd in the NHL in save%. Only 0.01 points behind second and 0.07 behind 1st. 6th in GAA.


Matthews is 5th in goals but all the way down at 25th in points.

Laine is 9th in goals and 27th in points.


So my question is, does Murray deserve to be in the final 3 for calder and does he have a serious shot to win it despite the early explosion from other rookies?

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02-15-2017, 10:05 AM
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DarbyHendrickson
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He's almost a forgotten rookie. He's so poised out there.

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02-15-2017, 10:05 AM
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He won't win it, but he should be in the discussion.

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02-15-2017, 10:08 AM
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If I had the right to choose I would have him in the contention of course. But I would have him not to win the prize no matter what. Now there are actually superstar level first season young NHLers so I would have one of them to win it. Yeah I know the rules but in my opinion it would be stupid to give it to someone who played whole playoffs last season and won the Stanley Cup. Yes it is nice that he is doing well behind the most or second most stacked team in the NHL but it would be better to give it to some superstar level 18 or 19 year old.

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02-15-2017, 10:28 AM
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gdsmack267
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Not saying Matthews doesnt deserve it because he probably does but add in the fact that hes in the largest hockey market I just dont see any scenario where he doesn't win it.

I think Murrary splitting time with MAF the first half of the season will hurt his chances at it.

If i was a voter i would go.

1. Matthews
2. Murray
3. Laine

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02-15-2017, 10:32 AM
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Daeni10
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He should be in the discussion or at least he should get some more recognition, however him missing some games due to injury and not playing as many games makes it impossible for him to win I think. I said this in the other thread already, with the rookie class being this strong he would need to have a vezina season to win it as a goalie. Sucks for him that his playoff run doesn't have any value when it comes to the calder thropy, but rules are rules^^

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02-15-2017, 11:51 AM
  #7
Evilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
Should Matt Murray be put in the discussion for Calder? I'd say he's easily in the top 3 right now.


He's 3rd in the NHL in save%. Only 0.01 points behind second and 0.07 behind 1st. 6th in GAA.


Matthews is 5th in goals but all the way down at 25th in points.

Laine is 9th in goals and 27th in points.


So my question is, does Murray deserve to be in the final 3 for calder and does he have a serious shot to win it despite the early explosion from other rookies?
Meanwhile Zach Werenski is 17th in Dman scoring, and some people continue to forget him...

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Old
02-15-2017, 12:07 PM
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He is a great goaltender, but I HIGHLY doubt he will win it. I can't even imagine that would happen without deliberately lying to myself.

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02-15-2017, 12:09 PM
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I completely forgot that he was a rookie

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02-15-2017, 12:10 PM
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kmo429
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Defintiely should be top 3 but no way I don't give it to Matthews right now. He's incredible at just 19. Leafs would veyr potentially be looking at a top 5 pick without him, and I know this isn't the MVP, but he has almost single handedly made the Leafs a legitimate threat.

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02-15-2017, 12:11 PM
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Don't think he can get it without starting in 50 to 55 games. His injury hurts him, and playing for a stacked team everyone expects to be good gets him overlooked (even if he is drastically better than Fleury).

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02-15-2017, 12:26 PM
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MardyBum
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You missed an important stat, GP.

Unless he plays 20-25 of their final 27(?) Games, I doubt he'll win it.

I doubt Pittsburgh will run him that much anyways as the end of the season gets closer and spots are decided.

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02-15-2017, 12:27 PM
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I know that's not the how the rules go, but I have a hard time even thinking of him as a rookie since the playoffs & cup last season - if anything he would've deserved it back then, but of course it's awarded before playoffs so...

It was probably done to death when it was current, but IMO Panarin was not a "proper rookie" last season, being what, 24 years(?) old and having 4(!!!) seasons of pro-experience in KHL... Murray winning it this year would seem similarly wrong, if not as bad, but still... especially given the performance of Laine & Matthews & Marner, who are as rookie as rookie gets

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02-15-2017, 12:29 PM
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I don't think he has any business being in the conversation with Laine, Marner or Matthews.

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02-15-2017, 12:30 PM
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LOL ... Penguin fans vs. Leaf fans. This could get interesting.

Personally, I'd give it to Murray. He's already proved what he can do in the clutch. I know Murray's a rookie due to a technicality and last year is supposed to not count ... but how can you discount his performance as a rookie?

There's no doubt Murray's had more impact on the NHL than Matthews, Marner, Laine, etc. Let's see if voters can separate the rules from reality. In reality, Murray is the most impactful.

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02-15-2017, 12:32 PM
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I'd still have Matthews, Marner and Laine ahead of him. What those 3 have done have impressed me more.

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02-15-2017, 12:33 PM
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poor Matt Tkachuk

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02-15-2017, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
Meanwhile Zach Werenski is 17th in Dman scoring, and some people continue to forget him...
Werenski and Marner are both 21st in points/gp among defensemen and forwards, respectively. (Laine 19th, Matthews t-24th)

Also I think the vast majority of posters here will agree that being top 25 in scoring as a forward is much more impressive than top 25 as a defenseman (one example to express this is that there are many elite defensemen that aren't top scorers, but very few elite forwards taht aren't top scorers).

People are still giving Werenski credit, but he has not been better than Marner, Matthews, Laine, or Murray and will likely compete with Nylander, Provorov, Rantanen, Mantha, Tkachuk, and Zaitsev as the "second-tier" rookies (he's probably at the top of this level, but I think the top 4 are clearly set as of today). He still looks like a legit #1 stud in the near future though so there's nothing to be too upset about.

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02-15-2017, 12:44 PM
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I wouldn't expect him to win it but I think he's worthy of discussion and a nomination thus far!

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02-15-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Community View Post
Werenski and Marner are both 21st in points/gp among defensemen and forwards, respectively. (Laine 19th, Matthews t-24th)

Also I think the vast majority of posters here will agree that being top 25 in scoring as a forward is much more impressive than top 25 as a defenseman (one example to express this is that there are many elite defensemen that aren't top scorers, but very few elite forwards taht aren't top scorers).

People are still giving Werenski credit, but he has not been better than Marner, Matthews, Laine, or Murray and will likely compete with Nylander, Provorov, Rantanen, Mantha, Tkachuk, and Zaitsev as the "second-tier" rookies (he's probably at the top of this level, but I think the top 4 are clearly set as of today). He still looks like a legit #1 stud in the near future though so there's nothing to be too upset about.
let's also not forget that matthews is tied for 4th and laine tied for 6th in goals scored

rookie class is ridiculous

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02-15-2017, 12:46 PM
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He should be in the discussion and should probably be a finalist. He probably won't be, though.

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02-15-2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Butchered View Post
He won't win it, but he should be in the discussion.
He wont win due toronto votes

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02-15-2017, 12:48 PM
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Evilo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Community View Post
Werenski and Marner are both 21st in points/gp among defensemen and forwards, respectively. (Laine 19th, Matthews t-24th)

Also I think the vast majority of posters here will agree that being top 25 in scoring as a forward is much more impressive than top 25 as a defenseman (one example to express this is that there are many elite defensemen that aren't top scorers, but very few elite forwards taht aren't top scorers).

People are still giving Werenski credit, but he has not been better than Marner, Matthews, Laine, or Murray and will likely compete with Nylander, Provorov, Rantanen, Mantha, Tkachuk, and Zaitsev as the "second-tier" rookies (he's probably at the top of this level, but I think the top 4 are clearly set as of today). He still looks like a legit #1 stud in the near future though so there's nothing to be too upset about.
Really?
I will disagree. There are fewer defensemen per team, it's harder to crack a lineup and of course, Werenski has ALSO shined defensively, which is never asked of those rooke forwards.
I'm hardly a BJ fan, but to me, Werenski is right there with Matthews, Laine, Marner and Murray.
And not a single step lower.

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02-15-2017, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piteus View Post
LOL ... Penguin fans vs. Leaf fans. This could get interesting.

Personally, I'd give it to Murray. He's already proved what he can do in the clutch. I know Murray's a rookie due to a technicality and last year is supposed to not count ... but how can you discount his performance as a rookie?

There's no doubt Murray's had more impact on the NHL than Matthews, Marner, Laine, etc. Let's see if voters can separate the rules from reality. In reality, Murray is the most impactful.
Why would last year count? Also, who cares who is the more impactful when voting for the Calder. As a goalie you are always (at least 99% of the time) the most impactful player on the ice. If your goalie has a bad game, you're very unlikely to win. If your #1C/D has a bad game, you can still easily win the game.

The award goes to "the player selected as the most proficient (competent or skilled) in his first year of competition". Could Murray win it based on that definition? For sure. However, if the award starts going to the most impactful player, then the award is going to favor rookie goalies and that's not how it should be.

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02-15-2017, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
He should be in the discussion and should probably be a finalist. He probably won't be, though.
I also say this quite frequently regarding Murray:

Calder, much like the Hart is story driven. The WOW factor.

The problem for Murray is the Penguins are a championship team, so winning is expected. When winning is expected, the only way Murray would be able to change to narrative is to make a ridiculous amount of highlight reel saves.

It's essentially a game rigged against him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
He wont win due toronto votes
majority of the votes don't come from toronto, fyi.

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