HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Matt Murray Calder Talk?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-15-2017, 02:49 PM
  #51
Peter Tagli Eddie
All 3 of them?
 
Peter Tagli Eddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 918
vCash: 50
How can a guy who's played 31 games even be considered for any award?

Peter Tagli Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 02:53 PM
  #52
Quares27
Registered User
 
Quares27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,591
vCash: 500
No chance. I bet there are a ton of voters that don't even realize he's a rookie or consider him a real rookie since he was the starter for the cup winner in the playoffs last season. And I feel like the chances of any goalie winning (or even being nominated) are tiny when you have 3 rookies on pace for 70 points.

Quares27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 02:53 PM
  #53
piteus
Registered User
 
piteus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by traparatus View Post
I completely disagree. You are talking about games played as if it's a formality. Murray has started 31 of Pens' 55 games. Every other rookie has been slugging it out there every single night, going through highs and lows, slumps, goal scoring droughts, you name it. Something that would be happening to Murray is he wasn't on the bench or injured for half of his team's games. You gotta play the games.
Obviously, he hasn't played enoguh games yet. That's why I "assumed" including last year's run for Murray. I included Murray's entire rookie portfolio. Otherwise this thread is obvious.

1. Yes, Murray deserves to be in the Calder conversation.
2. No, either Matthews or Laine will win it.

If you include what Murray did last year, you can have a meaningful discussion between Murray, Matthews, and Laine (sorry Marner). Otherwise, you might as well make this into another Calder rock fight between Toronto and Winnipeg fans.

piteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 02:55 PM
  #54
oobga
Tier 2 Fan
 
oobga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,440
vCash: 800
It would be funny if all the forwards in the race all ended up getting similar amounts of votes because they are so close and Murray slipped in and ended up winning it. I think he will need a push in the media though. I rarely see him mentioned by the talking heads in a rookie discussion.

oobga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 02:56 PM
  #55
Empoleon8771
Kunitz Was There
 
Empoleon8771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDNicks17 View Post
I don't think he has any business being in the conversation with Laine, Marner or Matthews.
So having the 2nd best save% is "having no business being in the conversation with Laine, Marner and Matthews"? Okay.

I really feel like people aren't looking at Murray's stats here before posting in this thread. Murray only has 14 less starts than Holtby, so it's not like he's playing the load of a backup. He should be finishing the year with around 50-52 starts while missing a month and a half due to injury, that's a legit starter's load.


Last edited by Empoleon8771: 02-15-2017 at 03:02 PM.
Empoleon8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 02:58 PM
  #56
Dustin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Marner is not getting enough love here. The reality is Murray is having a great season in a Calder year where great puts solidly outside the top 3. With the Laine and Matthews are scoring goals and Marner is getting points the eventual winner will have had a phenomenal season.

Dustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:02 PM
  #57
TheBeastCoast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dartmouth,NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by piteus View Post
Obviously, he hasn't played enoguh games yet. That's why I "assumed" including last year's run for Murray. I included Murray's entire rookie portfolio. Otherwise this thread is obvious.

1. Yes, Murray deserves to be in the Calder conversation.
2. No, either Matthews or Laine will win it.

If you include what Murray did last year, you can have a meaningful discussion between Murray, Matthews, and Laine (sorry Marner). Otherwise, you might as well make this into another Calder rock fight between Toronto and Winnipeg fans.
You would be right. The problem is you can't include Murray's season last year in Calder voting so it is kind of moot point.

TheBeastCoast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:03 PM
  #58
Empoleon8771
Kunitz Was There
 
Empoleon8771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
Marner is not getting enough love here. The reality is Murray is having a great season in a Calder year where great puts solidly outside the top 3. With the Laine and Matthews are scoring goals and Marner is getting points the eventual winner will have had a phenomenal season.
Again, Murray is putting up elite numbers for a goalie. I don't know how, but Murray is being underrated in this thread. The dude could very realistically be a Vezina finalist as a rookie.

Empoleon8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:07 PM
  #59
Dying Alive
I love u Phil
 
Dying Alive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Ireland
Posts: 10,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
Again, Murray is putting up elite numbers for a goalie. I don't know how, but Murray is being underrated in this thread. The dude could very realistically be a Vezina finalist as a rookie.
IMO that's a bigger deal than the Calder anyway.

Dying Alive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:07 PM
  #60
Dustin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
Again, Murray is putting up elite numbers for a goalie. I don't know how, but Murray is being underrated in this thread. The dude could very realistically be a Vezina finalist as a rookie.
If he is a Vezina finalist then he will get votes. Otherwise his chances are small. There is the fact that he hasn't really played enough games yet either but assuming he corrects that and is in the top 3 for Vezina votes than he will get Calder votes. I don't think people realize how amazing Laine, Matthews and Marner have been this year for rookies. Literally record breaking performances.

Dustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:09 PM
  #61
3074326
Registered User
 
3074326's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Columbus
Country: United States
Posts: 4,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tagli Eddie View Post
How can a guy who's played 31 games even be considered for any award?
Because when he plays, his team is a top team in the league. When MAF plays, they are not. Murray is phenomenal.

Not saying he deserves the award, but his name getting thrown around should come as a surprise to nobody.

3074326 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:09 PM
  #62
Dustin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
IMO that's a bigger deal than the Calder anyway.
Of course. Generally speaking the Calder is a points race for Forwards. Almost any other award would generally be considered a better award to win than the Calder

Dustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:10 PM
  #63
DoctrSteveBrule
Registered User
 
DoctrSteveBrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tagli Eddie View Post
How can a guy who's played 31 games even be considered for any award?
i was operating under the assumption that last night was not Murray's last game of the season.


here are goalies who have won the calder

DoctrSteveBrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:10 PM
  #64
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 35,939
vCash: 256
He should definitely be in the discussion. Problem is everyone forgets he is a rookie!!!

He is so strong mentally, one of the best I've ever seen. Was very surprised last year the way he played down the road and in the playoffs for Pittsburgh, the way he bounced back in the Washington series and especially in games 6-7 against TB.

Habs 4 Life is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:14 PM
  #65
HELWild
Rookie User
 
HELWild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Country: Finland
Posts: 53
vCash: 500
The competition is too big between Laine, Marner and Matthews. Maybe on another season Murray would've had a chance. Also his logo on the chest affects because the team is a Cup contender.

HELWild is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:14 PM
  #66
Empoleon8771
Kunitz Was There
 
Empoleon8771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
If he is a Vezina finalist then he will get votes. Otherwise his chances are small. There is the fact that he hasn't really played enough games yet either but assuming he corrects that and is in the top 3 for Vezina votes than he will get Calder votes. I don't think people realize how amazing Laine, Matthews and Marner have been this year for rookies. Literally record breaking performances.
I mean, Murray has started in 29 games so far this year. Holtby, Bobrovsky and Dubyk all have 43-45 starts on the year and they didn't miss a month and a half due to injury. I really don't get the "he hasn't played in enough games" angle. He's going to be getting over 50 starts and play in probably 55 games.

Steve Mason won the Calder in 2009 while starting 61 games, Howard came in 2nd in voting for the Calder in 2010 after starting in 60 games and Rask came in 4th in Calder voting in 2010 despite only starting 39 games. Murray starting in 52 shouldn't prevent him from being a calder finalist. The best comparable I could come up to this year was 2006, where Lundqvist finished 4th in Calder voting behind Ovi, Sid and Phaneuf. Lundqvist in that year also only had 53 games played.

Empoleon8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:15 PM
  #67
DoctrSteveBrule
Registered User
 
DoctrSteveBrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HELWild View Post
The competition is too big between Laine, Marner and Matthews. Maybe on another season Murray would've had a chance. Also his logo on the chest affects because the team is a Cup contender.

its almost as if he is part of the reason they are a cup contender

DoctrSteveBrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:15 PM
  #68
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 35,939
vCash: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by HELWild View Post
The competition is too big between Laine, Marner and Matthews. Maybe on another season Murray would've had a chance. Also his logo on the chest affects because the team is a Cup contender.
The team is a Cup contender because of him as well

Habs 4 Life is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:15 PM
  #69
McDNicks17
Moderator
Save us, Connor.
 
McDNicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,358
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
Again, Murray is putting up elite numbers for a goalie. I don't know how, but Murray is being underrated in this thread. The dude could very realistically be a Vezina finalist as a rookie.
Laine and Matthews are on pace for 40+ goals.

That's a little more impressive than being 10th in GAA and 8th in SV%.

McDNicks17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:17 PM
  #70
piteus
Registered User
 
piteus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
The team is a Cup contender because of him as well
There's a reason no one want Fleury and his bloated contract.

piteus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:18 PM
  #71
Empoleon8771
Kunitz Was There
 
Empoleon8771's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDNicks17 View Post
Laine and Matthews are on pace for 40+ goals.

That's a little more impressive than being 10th in GAA and 8th in SV%.
So are we just making up numbers now or are we including guys who have played in 2 games all season?

Murray is tied with Holtby for the 2nd highest save% among starters and is 5th lowest in GAA among starters.

Empoleon8771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:19 PM
  #72
pensfan7477
Phil The Thrill Hype
 
pensfan7477's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dahntahn Burgh
Country: United States
Posts: 7,928
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriceBergeronFan View Post
I don't see it. Playing on an elite team, 30 games... his team has 3 point per game players so little pressure. With far worse stats Fleury has a decidedly winning record as well.
Who cares? They're defense is average at best. Matt Murray is an elite goalie.

pensfan7477 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:19 PM
  #73
Honour Over Glory
Registered User
 
Honour Over Glory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 18,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Community View Post
Why would last year count? Also, who cares who is the more impactful when voting for the Calder. As a goalie you are always (at least 99% of the time) the most impactful player on the ice. If your goalie has a bad game, you're very unlikely to win. If your #1C/D has a bad game, you can still easily win the game.

The award goes to "the player selected as the most proficient (competent or skilled) in his first year of competition". Could Murray win it based on that definition? For sure. However, if the award starts going to the most impactful player, then the award is going to favor rookie goalies and that's not how it should be.
Yeah but it's not, the first part is weighted somewhat heavily, but the 2nd part if over whelming, is something they don't ignore.

If Murray finishes the season 2nd in GAA & SV%, you would need some serious reasoning for why he's not even nominated. And that is way harder to do than scoring or putting up points, not that those are any easier, but consider Fleury's numbers and then look at Murray's. It's not a case of "Oh well, he plays behind a stupid good defense even their back up has great numbers" which isn't the case at all. Murray is already a Cup winner but still a rookie and hes justifying why he won the cup last year.

A goalie doesn't get the benefit of another young rookie (Marner, Matthews, and Nylander or Laine and his wingers/centers, or Werenski and his partner and who he passes to etc).

It's ridiculous that people are so bothered by Murray potentially being a nominee. If goalies so easily put up great numbers, teams wouldn't be having goalie issues.

Honour Over Glory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:20 PM
  #74
Dustin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
I mean, Murray has started in 29 games so far this year. Holtby, Bobrovsky and Dubyk all have 43-45 starts on the year and they didn't miss a month and a half due to injury. I really don't get the "he hasn't played in enough games" angle. He's going to be getting over 50 starts and play in probably 55 games.

Steve Mason won the Calder in 2009 while starting 61 games, Howard came in 2nd in voting for the Calder in 2010 after starting in 60 games and Rask came in 4th in Calder voting in 2010 despite only starting 39 games. Murray starting in 52 shouldn't prevent him from being a calder finalist. The best comparable I could come up to this year was 2006, where Lundqvist finished 4th in Calder voting behind Ovi, Sid and Phaneuf. Lundqvist in that year also only had 53 games played.
Well if he gets to 50 - 55 games and is top 5 in stats for a goalie he will get votes. Again realize that Matthews, Laine and Marner are currently doing things that no one expected of them and have not seen since Crosby and Ovechkin's rookie season.

Dustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-15-2017, 03:22 PM
  #75
Plural
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 27,241
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by piteus View Post
I didn't say otherwise. I'm just making a point that Murray had a better "rookie year" if you disregard the voting rules. How can anyone disagree?
Hear me out here, since we're disregarding rules, I think Crosby should win the Calder. Considering his past seasons in the NHL I'd say he's the best rookie this year.

Plural is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.