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Matt Murray Calder Talk?

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Old
02-15-2017, 02:22 PM
  #76
Honour Over Glory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McDNicks17 View Post
Laine and Matthews are on pace for 40+ goals.

That's a little more impressive than being 10th in GAA and 8th in SV%.
You mean tied for 3rd for SV% and tied for 6th in GAA?

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02-15-2017, 02:23 PM
  #77
Dustin
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Yeah but it's not, the first part is weighted somewhat heavily, but the 2nd part if over whelming, is something they don't ignore.

If Murray finishes the season 2nd in GAA & SV%, you would need some serious reasoning for why he's not even nominated. And that is way harder to do than scoring or putting up points, not that those are any easier, but consider Fleury's numbers and then look at Murray's. It's not a case of "Oh well, he plays behind a stupid good defense even their back up has great numbers" which isn't the case at all. Murray is already a Cup winner but still a rookie and hes justifying why he won the cup last year.

A goalie doesn't get the benefit of another young rookie (Marner, Matthews, and Nylander or Laine and his wingers/centers, or Werenski and his partner and who he passes to etc).

It's ridiculous that people are so bothered by Murray potentially being a nominee. If goalies so easily put up great numbers, teams wouldn't be having goalie issues.
I agree that it shouldn't bother anyone he is a nominee. If this was more of a down year for rookies, he probably in the lead for Calder votes right now. As others have said, what the 3 forwards are doing this year is what defines this years Calder race due to how truly amazing they have been.

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02-15-2017, 02:24 PM
  #78
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Hear me out here, since we're disregarding rules, I think Crosby should win the Calder. Considering his past seasons in the NHL I'd say he's the best rookie this year.
Nah. It should be Gretzky. He never got one so he should win one this year.

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02-15-2017, 02:26 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Yeah but it's not, the first part is weighted somewhat heavily, but the 2nd part if over whelming, is something they don't ignore.

If Murray finishes the season 2nd in GAA & SV%, you would need some serious reasoning for why he's not even nominated. And that is way harder to do than scoring or putting up points, not that those are any easier, but consider Fleury's numbers and then look at Murray's. It's not a case of "Oh well, he plays behind a stupid good defense even their back up has great numbers" which isn't the case at all. Murray is already a Cup winner but still a rookie and hes justifying why he won the cup last year.

A goalie doesn't get the benefit of another young rookie (Marner, Matthews, and Nylander or Laine and his wingers/centers, or Werenski and his partner and who he passes to etc).

It's ridiculous that people are so bothered by Murray potentially being a nominee. If goalies so easily put up great numbers, teams wouldn't be having goalie issues.
This sounds like you don't know how the voting process goes. You do understand that they don't actually nominate anyone for the trophies? They vote for the trophies and the three guys getting most voting points are called "nominees". Even if they haven't technically been nominated for anything.

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02-15-2017, 02:27 PM
  #80
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Something that wouldn't surprise me is for Matthews to overshadow Marner in the Calder, which pushes Marner down to 4th and Murray into 3rd. Matthews is basically hyped up enough where you'd imagine that he'd be the winner of the Calder, but that could end up hurting Marner I think. Although, at the same point, that could end up helping him similar to how Staal ended up ahead of Kopitar for the Calder in 2006 despite Kopitar being just clearly better.

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02-15-2017, 02:28 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
Nah. It should be Gretzky. He never got one so he should win one this year.
Honestly, it's been so long time (I wasn't even born back then but I've read the stories) but I still can't get over the fact that the NHL had such a beef with the WHA so they didn't allow Gretzky (or anyone from WHA) to compete for the Calder. In my books, Gretzky is the best rookie 79-80 season. Period.

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02-15-2017, 02:28 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
I mean, Murray has started in 29 games so far this year. Holtby, Bobrovsky and Dubyk all have 43-45 starts on the year and they didn't miss a month and a half due to injury. I really don't get the "he hasn't played in enough games" angle. He's going to be getting over 50 starts and play in probably 55 games.
50 starts is plenty but he doesn't have 50 starts. You are taking his current stats and extrapolating them for the rest of the season. He has started so few games that letting in 5 goals in a single game would drop him 3-4 spots in Sv%. Literally after the next Pittsburgh game this conversation might look silly.

Who wins the Calder between third in Sv% Murray and Rocket Richard winner, 45 goal scorer Laine? If you want to have a hypothetical conversation, you have to do it somewhat fairly.

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02-15-2017, 02:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
Something that wouldn't surprise me is for Matthews to overshadow Marner in the Calder, which pushes Marner down to 4th and Murray into 3rd. Matthews is basically hyped up enough where you'd imagine that he'd be the winner of the Calder, but that could end up hurting Marner I think. Although, at the same point, that could end up helping him similar to how Staal ended up ahead of Kopitar for the Calder in 2006 despite Kopitar being just clearly better.
Well, who knows. It very largely depends on the narratives created towards end the season. If Marner gets a lot of attention and press, the voters might split their votes between the two and that would probably propel Laine to #1. Or maybe everyone will see Matthews, the 1st overall franchise center as the clear cut winner and Marner gets left without any votes.

I do think Werenski is going to get more votes than Murray though.

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02-15-2017, 02:30 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Plural View Post
Honestly, it's been so long time (I wasn't even born back then but I've read the stories) but I still can't get over the fact that the NHL had such a beef with the WHA so they didn't allow Gretzky (or anyone from WHA) to compete for the Calder. In my books, Gretzky is the best rookie 79-80 season. Period.
So he wins it this year and than Crosby wins it next year. It's perfect.

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02-15-2017, 02:30 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by traparatus View Post
50 starts is plenty but he doesn't have 50 starts. You are taking his current stats and extrapolating them for the rest of the season. He has started so few games that letting in 5 goals in a single game would drop him 3-4 spots in Sv%. Literally after the next Pittsburgh game this conversation might look silly.

Who wins the Calder between third in Sv% Murray and Rocket Richard winner, 45 goal scorer Laine? If you want to have a hypothetical conversation, you have to do it somewhat fairly.
This makes literally no sense. Are we ending the season today for some reason and deciding who wins the calder today based on that? Your comment makes absolutely no sense.

The Penguins have 27 games left, and baring injury, Murray is probably going to be starting in at least 20 of those. That puts him at 50 games.

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Originally Posted by Plural View Post
Well, who knows. It very largely depends on the narratives created towards end the season. If Marner gets a lot of attention and press, the voters might split their votes between the two and that would probably propel Laine to #1. Or maybe everyone will see Matthews, the 1st overall franchise center as the clear cut winner and Marner gets left without any votes.

I do think Werenski is going to get more votes than Murray though.
I don't see this happening at this point. He's on pace to end up with a worse rookie season than Phaneuf, who barely edged out Lundqvist (who Murray is currently projected to have a slightly better rookie season than) in calder voting in 2006. I'm extremely confident that Murray ends up in at worst 4th in calder voting and vezina voting.

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02-15-2017, 02:31 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
So he wins it this year and than Crosby wins it next year. It's perfect.
That's excellent.

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02-15-2017, 02:34 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post


I don't see this happening at this point. He's on pace to end up with a worse rookie season than Phaneuf, who barely edged out Lundqvist (who Murray is currently projected to have a slightly better rookie season than) in calder voting in 2006. I'm extremely confident that Murray ends up in at worst 4th in calder voting and vezina voting.
That's possible. I guess we'll see in few months. I just think Murray will not play enough games and it will hurt him in the voting.

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02-15-2017, 02:34 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
I agree that it shouldn't bother anyone he is a nominee. If this was more of a down year for rookies, he probably in the lead for Calder votes right now. As others have said, what the 3 forwards are doing this year is what defines this years Calder race due to how truly amazing they have been.
There's a group of maybe 10 rookies for Forwards that are having a good year this year for the crop of forward rookies and maybe 2-3 young defensemen. But there's only 1 rookie goalie that is playing like a true elite number 1, he also just won the cup last year as the sole #1 goaltender.

Again, if he's not at least nominated, that's a massive joke.

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02-15-2017, 02:36 PM
  #89
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Funny that Marner leads rookie scoring at the moment and is barely in the discussion.

This Calder isn't going to a goaltender unless he's up for the Veniza, this rookie class is too deep. The two superstars in the spot like battle it to the wire and a bunch of others get a well deserved honorable mention.

Who gets bounced from the all rookie team is a better debate IMO

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02-15-2017, 02:37 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Plural View Post
That's possible. I guess we'll see in few months. I just think Murray will not play enough games and it will hurt him in the voting.
That didn't hurt Lundqvist in 2006, who only had 50 starts and was up against Crosby, Ovechkin, Phaneuf, Miller and Boyes for the Calder. I just don't really see it.

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Originally Posted by LondonKendrick View Post
Funny that Marner leads rookie scoring at the moment and is barely in the discussion.

This Calder isn't going to a goaltender unless he's up for the Veniza, this rookie class is too deep. The two superstars in the spot like battle it to the wire and a bunch of others get a well deserved honorable mention.

Who gets bounced from the all rookie team is a better debate IMO
Murray will likely be a Vezina finalist this year too.

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02-15-2017, 02:39 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
There's a group of maybe 10 rookies for Forwards that are having a good year this year for the crop of forward rookies and maybe 2-3 young defensemen. But there's only 1 rookie goalie that is playing like a true elite number 1, he also just won the cup last year as the sole #1 goaltender.

Again, if he's not at least nominated, that's a massive joke.
As others have mentioned there is no nomination process. You either gets votes or you don't. Why people keep bringing up what he did last year is also confusing as this award is only for this year and lastly your definition of "good year" is very different than almost everyone who watches hockey.

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02-15-2017, 02:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Plural View Post
That's excellent.
Anyone else? RNH probably deserved one.

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02-15-2017, 02:42 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
There's a group of maybe 10 rookies for Forwards that are having a good year this year for the crop of forward rookies and maybe 2-3 young defensemen. But there's only 1 rookie goalie that is playing like a true elite number 1, he also just won the cup last year as the sole #1 goaltender.

Again, if he's not at least nominated, that's a massive joke.
Again, there's no nominations. It's a vote and if Murray ends up top-3 in voting points he's going to be top-3 in voting. That's it.

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02-15-2017, 02:44 PM
  #94
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No. Not enough games. Same reason Connor didn't win the Calder.

Absolutely belongs in the discussion, its not his fault with MAF being there. People forget he is a rookie too which says a lot.

<---- Its this beaut's to lose

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02-15-2017, 02:45 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Plural View Post
Again, there's no nominations. It's a vote and if Murray ends up top-3 in voting points he's going to be top-3 in voting. That's it.
It's like talking to a wall sometimes. And not just here but in the Calder thread too. There have been very defined ways to predict Calder winners over the years but most people just want to shirk history and say my guy wins because he's the best. It's not even like the Calder is a prestigious award anyway.

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02-15-2017, 02:46 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
That didn't hurt Lundqvist in 2006, who only had 50 starts and was up against Crosby, Ovechkin, Phaneuf, Miller and Boyes for the Calder. I just don't really see it.



Murray will likely be a Vezina finalist this year too.
Is Murray going to get 50 starts? I'd say that's the least amount he needs.

But if he's really having great enough year to be top-3 in Vezina voting he's likely going to be top-3 in Calder voting too.

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02-15-2017, 02:48 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
This makes literally no sense. Are we ending the season today for some reason and deciding who wins the calder today based on that? Your comment makes absolutely no sense.

The Penguins have 27 games left, and baring injury, Murray is probably going to be starting in at least 20 of those. That puts him at 50 games.
I'm simply pointing out how silly it is to latch on to Sv% stat of a goalie who has started 30 games. Where did he rank 2 games ago? 7-8? So if this discussion starts on Feb 5, he is not a Calder candidate and today he is?

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02-15-2017, 02:51 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by McDNicks17 View Post
Laine and Matthews are on pace for 40+ goals.

That's a little more impressive than being 10th in GAA and 8th in SV%.
well he's 6th and and 3rd

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02-15-2017, 02:58 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Plural View Post
Is Murray going to get 50 starts? I'd say that's the least amount he needs.

But if he's really having great enough year to be top-3 in Vezina voting he's likely going to be top-3 in Calder voting too.
I'd say yes, the Penguins have 27 games left and he's currently at 29 starts. He'd need to start 21 of the last 27, and seeing how he has started 12 of the last 15 games, it's not crazy to say that he could start 21 of the last 27. The Penguins only have 3 sets of back to back games left too, so Fleury probably won't be seeing too many starts from here on out.

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02-15-2017, 03:00 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Empoleon8771 View Post
I'd say yes, the Penguins have 27 games left and he's currently at 29 starts. He'd need to start 21 of the last 27, and seeing how he has started 12 of the last 15 games, it's not crazy to say that he could start 21 of the last 27. The Penguins only have 3 sets of back to back games left too, so Fleury probably won't be seeing too many starts from here on out.
I'd say then that he's in the race still. But his GP number probably needs to start with a 5 and not 4.

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