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The Red Wings are in the worst shape of any NHL Franchise

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Old
02-16-2017, 02:53 PM
  #26
Birko19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piteus View Post
It's so obvious how important Pavel Datysuk was to this franchise (we all recognize Lidstrom) ... even in his later years. It's not always about the counting stats as so many mindless drones try to highlight. That leadership void is hurting Detroit's youngsters even now.
Both Datsyuk and Zetterberg were huge, but the truth is the ship started sinking when Lidstrom left, we're talking about easily a top-5 dman of all time, you don't replace that over night, and we may never see it in our lifetime.

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02-16-2017, 02:54 PM
  #27
Ezekial
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Originally Posted by Proust View Post
His lips aren't even saying "Maybe". FAIL
Sorry, like I said I used it as an alternate and I don't know American Psycho line for line. Now that I read his lips he definitely isn't saying maybe.

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Old
02-16-2017, 02:57 PM
  #28
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They have good ownership (assuming same model applies as Ilitch used for years).

They're just in a down cycle, they're far from being in a really bad position.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:15 PM
  #29
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I actually agree. Ive been arguing this for a while. Maybe Vancouver is just as bad as us.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:25 PM
  #30
Mortimer Snerd
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Originally Posted by traparatus View Post
I had a look through Wings' roster on CapFriendly and some of their contracts are ... let's say questionable.

Abdelkader till 2023 @ $4.25mil + NTC
Helm till 2021 @ $3.85mil + NTC
Clendenning till 2021 @ $1.8mil
DeKeyser till 2022 @ $5mil

There is more there too. Zetterberg, Ericsson, Nielsen. What the hell is that about? Contracts like these are given to guaranteed core players, your team's foundation. What the **** has Abdelkader ever done to deserve that contract?

That is the most depressing cap situation I've ever seen. I knew it was bad but at a closer look, it's beyond bad. It's awful.
Yup. It is those bad contracts, many of them signed within the last year that are really going to hold Detroit back.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:27 PM
  #31
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Even in a Red Wings focused re-build thread the Canucks are the main attraction at bash-o-mania.

Cheerio to the ones actually giving the Canucks some credit. We got plenty of work ahead of us here.. but its trending in the right direction at least and there are quite a number of nice looking pieces in the cupboards since Benning joined.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:36 PM
  #32
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I think how quick the can turn around depends on the quality of players they get from the next 2-3 drafts. It seems as though they already have some key pieces in place that will help accelerate the rebuild.

The Wings Current Lineup is something like this:

Tatar-Zetterberg-Mantha
Athanasiou-Nielsen-Vanek
Larkin-Helm-Abedlkader
Glendening-Sheahan-Ott

DeKeyser-Green
Smith-Ouellet
Kronwall-Jesen

Mrazek
Coreau


Of that list the only players I'd deem unmovable and part of the core going foreard are: Mantha, Athanasiou, Mrazek, Larkin, Zetterberg, Kronwall, and Mrazek. I think Mantha will prove to be a top line winger, Athanasiou a 50 point winger, Larkin I think will rebound and develop into a Kesler like role, and Mrazek will hopefully work hard this offseason and rebound next year.

Ideally, Vanek is moved for a 1st (if not a 2nd+3rd, or equivalent prospect), Green is moved for a 1st+, and 1 or both of Tatar/Nyquist are moved for either prospects or players in similar situations. If we do that I think we'll have the pick capital to start making a change. Overall, I think the rebuild lasts 3 years but that's all dependent on the drafts being not below average.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:43 PM
  #33
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I'll tell you in 5 years

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:46 PM
  #34
piteus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19 View Post
Both Datsyuk and Zetterberg were huge, but the truth is the ship started sinking when Lidstrom left, we're talking about easily a top-5 dman of all time, you don't replace that over night, and we may never see it in our lifetime.
Top 5 defensemen? Come on ... even as a Hawks fan I can admit Lidstrom is probably better than top 5 I only wish Karlsson fans had that kind of humility.

We all know how great Lidstrom was. Zetterberg was very good ... but I don't think Datsyuk gets the credit he deserves. It's hard to fathom, I think he's even underrated now.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:47 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by DeltaSwede View Post
Even in a Red Wings focused re-build thread the Canucks are the main attraction at bash-o-mania.

Cheerio to the ones actually giving the Canucks some credit. We got plenty of work ahead of us here.. but its trending in the right direction at least and there are quite a number of nice looking pieces in the cupboards since Benning joined.
If Detroit does a proper scorched earth rebuild, they'll have a better future.

Both teams need top 3 talents, Detroit looks like they'll have a better shot at acquiring them.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:49 PM
  #36
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Hull and hasek arent walking through that door. God bless the salary cap. Babcock was doing wonders as well. When he gave up this was inevitable.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:54 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Mortimer Snerd View Post
Yup. It is those bad contracts, many of them signed within the last year that are really going to hold Detroit back.
Zetterberg
Nielsen
Abdelkader
Helm
Clendening
DeKeyser
Ericsson
Howard
Weiss (buyout)

$37.5 million in cap space locked up long term. Raise your hand if you want any of these guys on your rebuilding team's core.

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Old
02-16-2017, 03:57 PM
  #38
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Yeah, the Wings are shockingly bereft of talent. Vancouver is bad, also. Imagine if the Twins weren't still playing. CO, for all their so called talent, is a mess, also. They seem dysfunctional, at this point. Is it possible that Roy was actually a decent coach, and that they were playing over their talent level?

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Old
02-16-2017, 04:02 PM
  #39
SmellOfVictory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traparatus View Post
Zetterberg
Nielsen
Abdelkader
Helm
Clendening
DeKeyser
Ericsson
Howard
Weiss (buyout)

$37.5 million in cap space locked up long term. Raise your hand if you want any of these guys on your rebuilding team's core.
If it's a rebuilding team, why not? The vets on a rebuilding team, at least during the first couple of years, are cannon fodder to throw to the rest of the league and shelter the rookies. As long as they're solid dudes (e.g. Zetterberg) I think they're fine vets to have on a rebuilding team. DeKeyser and Nielsen, in particular, are still solid players.

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Old
02-16-2017, 04:21 PM
  #40
Brick Top
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Originally Posted by Eazy for Kuzy View Post
Rebuilds can go pretty fast if you're lucky. But they have to start drafting well again, they haven't drafted any elite player in a long time, especially on defense.
At least they made up for it by failing to develop the D-men they have drafted...

Quote:
Originally Posted by traparatus View Post
I had a look through Wings' roster on CapFriendly and some of their contracts are ... let's say questionable.

Abdelkader till 2023 @ $4.25mil + NTC
Helm till 2021 @ $3.85mil + NTC
Clendenning till 2021 @ $1.8mil
DeKeyser till 2022 @ $5mil

There is more there too. Zetterberg, Ericsson, Nielsen. What the hell is that about? Contracts like these are given to guaranteed core players, your team's foundation. What the **** has Abdelkader ever done to deserve that contract?

That is the most depressing cap situation I've ever seen. I knew it was bad but at a closer look, it's beyond bad. It's awful.
Holland hands out NTC's instead of candy to the neighborhood kids on Halloween. And so many contracts no other team in the league would want or ever hand out to their own guys; they need to hit home runs on their top draft picks over the next few years (hey, at least they can bank on top 5 to top 10 picks so there's that )

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Old
02-16-2017, 04:37 PM
  #41
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Yep. Holland is the worst gm in the league. The wings fans living in reality have been saying this for years. Should get a top 5 pick this year though and hopefully another 1st or two trading Geen/Vanek/Tatar/Nyquist. With the defense the way it is tanking will be easy for at least a few years.

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Old
02-16-2017, 04:41 PM
  #42
LarKing
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Also I'm truly shocked this thread was started by a Hawks fan.

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Old
02-16-2017, 04:45 PM
  #43
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Trade big Z

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Old
02-16-2017, 04:49 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by McCanovin View Post
Everything is going in circles. Oilers were a dynasty team when the Wings were a mickey mouse team. Then Wings went on to become one of best run franchise in sports history while the Oilers became the opposite. Now it seems like the circle is reaching its starting point again.
It's funny looking at the standings and seeing old rivals Avalanche and Red Wings in the bottom of their respective conferences. As a hockey fan starting in the '90s, it's hard for me to grasp.

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Old
02-16-2017, 04:53 PM
  #45
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HF said the same thing about Minnesota last year. We were supposed to be the team with no future. Fast forward a year and Nino/Coyle/Granlund/Zucker are on 60+ pt pace and the blueline is still young and promising. To say nothing of the fact that our farm (Kaprizov, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Tuch, Greenway) went from bottom five to top ten.

Point is that a lot can change.

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Old
02-16-2017, 05:06 PM
  #46
traparatus
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Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
If it's a rebuilding team, why not? The vets on a rebuilding team, at least during the first couple of years, are cannon fodder to throw to the rest of the league and shelter the rookies. As long as they're solid dudes (e.g. Zetterberg) I think they're fine vets to have on a rebuilding team. DeKeyser and Nielsen, in particular, are still solid players.
I guess so. All those players are just so... meh. Zetterberg is obviously a legend but instead of him tutoring rookies, I'd rather send him out for a 1st and a solid D prospect. Oh wait, can't do that. He is signed for another 4 years.

It just seems like nobody on the Wings is getting fair value. I mean Nielsen if fine but is he a $5.25mil player for the next 5 years? Was he that player at any point in his career?

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Old
02-16-2017, 05:16 PM
  #47
McDavyCrockett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McCanovin View Post
Everything is going in circles. Oilers were a dynasty team when the Wings were a mickey mouse team. Then Wings went on to become one of best run franchise in sports history while the Oilers became the opposite. Now it seems like the circle is reaching its starting point again.
LMAO, c'mon. The closest thing to a "dynasty" (and I use that term very loosely) in the cap era is the Chicago Blackhawks, and the Oilers are two top-pairing defenseman (one of them a legit elite player like Duncan Keith) and better depth up front from even being in that conversation.

The Oilers look more along the lines of the 2014-present New York Islanders.

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Old
02-16-2017, 05:32 PM
  #48
LarKing
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Originally Posted by MNRube View Post
HF said the same thing about Minnesota last year. We were supposed to be the team with no future. Fast forward a year and Nino/Coyle/Granlund/Zucker are on 60+ pt pace and the blueline is still young and promising. To say nothing of the fact that our farm (Kaprizov, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Tuch, Greenway) went from bottom five to top ten.

Point is that a lot can change.
Yeah I don't really think it's as grim as it looks. We have the supporting players already in Nyquist, Tatar, Nielson, Dekeyser, etc. We need star players which we potentially have in Mantha, Larkin, Cholowski, Hronek. Just need 2-4 years of top 5 picks and we'll be alright. Yeah it sucks rebuilding but I'd rather finally rebuild than be a mediocre team every year like we have been for 5+ years.

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Old
02-16-2017, 05:42 PM
  #49
Ezekial
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traparatus View Post
Zetterberg
Nielsen
Abdelkader
Helm
Clendening
DeKeyser
Ericsson
Howard
Weiss (buyout)

$37.5 million in cap space locked up long term. Raise your hand if you want any of these guys on your rebuilding team's core.
I'm only correcting you because it's the second time, his name is Glendening. Adam Clendening is a different human being.

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Old
02-16-2017, 06:00 PM
  #50
LeighDx13
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Also I'm truly shocked this thread was started by a Hawks fan.

I'm not, he is usually very quick to point out how "bleak" our future is in any thread about the Playoff streak. Though to be fair everyone has been calling for it year after year after year after year. Only difference is, after saying it"ll end since Shanahan and Yzerman retired, its finally happening.

The sad part is, most Wings fans are cheering for this as much as everyone else is. We have really good pieces to potentially build on. Larkin will get better after he gets over this slump, Mantha and Athanasiou will put it together. Mrazek is still young and rebound. Defensively we have decent pieces in the pipeline. Whether or not any of them will turn into stars remains to be seen, but this was gonna happen eventually. I just hope Holland doesnt find a way to screw this up.

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