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The Red Wings are in the worst shape of any NHL Franchise

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Old
02-16-2017, 08:55 PM
  #76
newfy
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This is the first year they arent going to make the playoffs in 25 years. For a team to actually have Larkin, Mantha, Ouellet, Athanasiou, Mrazek (still a great goalie prospect) and to a lesser extent guys like Bertuzzi and Hronek after just missing out on the playoffs for the first time in 25 years is actually a pretty solid young group.

This year they will miss the playoffs and can go full rebuild because the streak wont be stopping them. They'll also add a top 3ish draft pick this year as well. Everything looks bad this year but Mantha and Ouellet are having really good years (especially Mantha). The fact that a team has peices like that at a young age before theyve started selling assets is pretty good (by rebuild standards).

Toronto who looks really good with young players right now for example did not start their rebuild with players close to that calibre in the prospect pool

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Old
02-16-2017, 09:00 PM
  #77
Syckle78
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Originally Posted by Sheriff Bert View Post
While the Wings do have a lot of work ahead of them to restock the prospect pool, they still have the two mentioned above, as well as Svechnikov, Athanasiou, Tyler Bertuzzi, Cholowski, Hronek, and some other potential NHLers in the minors developing already.

That's a decent foundation for a team who has had poor drafting position for the last 25 years. Now they can pick up some valuable pieces that they've finally hit the bottom.
That's a pretty **** poor foundation. That's nothing of quality better than any other team. We're starting from complete rock bottom if our gm/front office even decides to rebuild finally.

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Old
02-16-2017, 09:05 PM
  #78
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Sorry but I think they have a better team than Vegas does.

Personally want to see the Red Wings competitive asap but will they do a scorched earth rebuild?

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Old
02-16-2017, 09:06 PM
  #79
Syckle78
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Originally Posted by MNRube View Post
HF said the same thing about Minnesota last year. We were supposed to be the team with no future. Fast forward a year and Nino/Coyle/Granlund/Zucker are on 60+ pt pace and the blueline is still young and promising. To say nothing of the fact that our farm (Kaprizov, Kunin, Eriksson Ek, Tuch, Greenway) went from bottom five to top ten.

Point is that a lot can change.
Lol you had an actual defense in place. Look at our dumpster fire of current defense and prospects. Nice plug for your team,though.

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Old
02-16-2017, 09:09 PM
  #80
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His lips aren't even saying "Maybe". FAIL
I was like.... wtf?

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Old
02-16-2017, 09:16 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by traparatus View Post
I had a look through Wings' roster on CapFriendly and some of their contracts are ... let's say questionable.

Abdelkader till 2023 @ $4.25mil + NTC
Helm till 2021 @ $3.85mil + NTC
Clendenning till 2021 @ $1.8mil
DeKeyser till 2022 @ $5mil

There is more there too. Zetterberg, Ericsson, Nielsen. What the hell is that about? Contracts like these are given to guaranteed core players, your team's foundation. What the **** has Abdelkader ever done to deserve that contract?

That is the most depressing cap situation I've ever seen. I knew it was bad but at a closer look, it's beyond bad. It's awful.
That's all thanks to our GM. He was great when there was an open checkbook but the cap has really exposed him.

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Old
02-16-2017, 09:25 PM
  #82
Alex Jones
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The Abdelkader contract is right up there as one of the worst. Six more years of an aging bottom six player. Worst part is that there isn't a cba negotiation coming to get a free buyout to dump this guy

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Old
02-16-2017, 09:27 PM
  #83
newfy
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
That's a pretty **** poor foundation. That's nothing of quality better than any other team. We're starting from complete rock bottom if our gm/front office even decides to rebuild finally.
Of course it is. They made playoffs for 25 straight years. But after a run like that all teams rebuild. The difference is, Detroits young guys are actually pretty solid for just finishing that kind of run. Most teams dont start a rebuild with young players the calibre of Mantha, Larkin, Athanasiou, Ouellet and Mrazek all on the roster.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000352004.html

Thats Chicagos roster right when they were in a rebuild for a few years just before adding a 1st overall and 3rd overall. Youre going to tell me they had a Mantha, Larkin or Mrazek on that team?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000402004.html

LAs roster after missing playoffs for a few seasons. Near the start of their rebuild, definitely not a Mantha or Larkin on that roster either. But the next year they got Kopitar on the team and bottomed out for Doughty.

As far as teams starting off a rebuild, the wings are not in bad shape. Theyre going to add a high pick this year and this is their first time even missing the playofs

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Old
02-16-2017, 09:31 PM
  #84
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Well Red Wing fans have been telling us Holland has been terrible for a while now. To be fair, they've been good->solidly mediocre for so long they haven't had great opportunity to stockpile high end, replenish-able young talent.

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Old
02-16-2017, 10:22 PM
  #85
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I was going to say, no, the Canucks are.

But then the defence point is fairly pertinent. And you have comparisons to Larkin/Mantha in Horvat/Boeser even if they're more unproven.

A few quick trades and a couple of years can turn it though. If we keep meandering without actually re-building and the wings take a more active path...

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Old
02-16-2017, 10:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Eazy for Kuzy View Post
Rebuilds can go pretty fast if you're lucky. But they have to start drafting well again, they haven't drafted any elite player in a long time, especially on defense.
One thing Detroit always did years back was scout areas that no other teams really did. It was a great strategy. Now, that's not the case. Every team is now looking across the globe for another Datsyuk,Lidstrom etc.

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Old
02-16-2017, 10:46 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Detroit games are terribly officiated almost always in their favor .
You cannot possibly be serious.

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Old
02-16-2017, 10:52 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
You're the guy with the following opinions:

Toews > Malkin

Toews is in company with Sakic, Yzerman, Messier, and Trottier.

To sum it up. You silly dawg.
No, he definitely isn't.

If you want to go that route, so are Kirk Maltby and Kris Draper, they have four Cups each.

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Old
02-16-2017, 10:55 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
I hope these discussions become more common so that management feels the heat. They've been complacent for too long.
Not looking likely when Holland himself came out and said that "less can be more exciting".

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Old
02-16-2017, 11:01 PM
  #90
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by Benedict Kovalchuk View Post
Canucks youth blows that of the other two out of the water, and actually seems to be performing and improving at a decent rate, Virtanen aside. Meanwhile all the youth of Colorado appears to be absolutely lost out there(with Rantanen likely joining soon at this rate), and Colorado may have to blow it up anyways despite their core being so young. Detroit has next to no youth to speak of outside Larkin and maaaybe Mantha, and has a very, very long way to go. I can see the Canucks turning it around first, easily.
Horvat is the only youngster who's actually made a significant impact.

Nucks are still a team largely carried by their veterans. Namely the Sedins. But also guys like Suter, Eriksson.

Avs don't have those same quality vets the Nucks have. Avs also losing Johnson was huge.

Avs have drafted Mackinnon, Rantanen, Jost in 3 of the last 4 drafts and will get a top pick this draft. Hands down I take their youth.

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Old
02-16-2017, 11:18 PM
  #91
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Of course it is. They made playoffs for 25 straight years. But after a run like that all teams rebuild. The difference is, Detroits young guys are actually pretty solid for just finishing that kind of run. Most teams dont start a rebuild with young players the calibre of Mantha, Larkin, Athanasiou, Ouellet and Mrazek all on the roster.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000352004.html

Thats Chicagos roster right when they were in a rebuild for a few years just before adding a 1st overall and 3rd overall. Youre going to tell me they had a Mantha, Larkin or Mrazek on that team?

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000402004.html

LAs roster after missing playoffs for a few seasons. Near the start of their rebuild, definitely not a Mantha or Larkin on that roster either. But the next year they got Kopitar on the team and bottomed out for Doughty.

As far as teams starting off a rebuild, the wings are not in bad shape. Theyre going to add a high pick this year and this is their first time even missing the playofs
Hindsight is 20/20.

From that Chicago team. Ruutu was a recent 9th overall pick who went onto have a good career. Arnasson, Bell and Calder also looked good early in their careers. Hawks also had a much better stocked prospect pool.

LA has Frolov & Cammi who were awesome youngsters. That team you linked also had a young Gleason & Brown.

Wings if they're lucky are only looking at 5 year rebuild. But more likely it's a few years longer than that.

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Old
02-16-2017, 11:25 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Alex Jones View Post
The Abdelkader contract is right up there as one of the worst. Six more years of an aging bottom six player. Worst part is that there isn't a cba negotiation coming to get a free buyout to dump this guy
I feel like Holland has this weird idea in his head that everyone needs to retire a career Red Wing. It doesn't really work in the cap era where you can't overpay your role players. I don't think he's the right GM to lead them through the rebuild.

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Old
02-17-2017, 12:05 AM
  #93
France Nielsen
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This isn't wrong.

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Old
02-17-2017, 12:07 AM
  #94
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It's Vancouver IMO

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Old
02-17-2017, 12:23 AM
  #95
LarKing
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
I feel like Holland has this weird idea in his head that everyone needs to retire a career Red Wing. It doesn't really work in the cap era where you can't overpay your role players. I don't think he's the right GM to lead them through the rebuild.
You're definitely not wrong here. Holland is a truly terrible GM still living off his reputation from ten years ago.

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Old
02-17-2017, 12:35 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
I feel like Holland has this weird idea in his head that everyone needs to retire a career Red Wing. It doesn't really work in the cap era where you can't overpay your role players. I don't think he's the right GM to lead them through the rebuild.

Alot of people point to lidstrom retiring as the turning point of the franchise heading down, I have always thought it was when Holland refused the promotion so that Yzerman left for tampa instead of Gm'ing for the wings. I really hope that Holland and ownership do the right thing and do a proper rebuild. Count me as a wing fan who would rather be getting better picks than getting rolled in the first round.

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Old
02-17-2017, 01:14 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by The Toews Era View Post
It amazes me when red wing fans blame the success of 1990-2005 as the reason why they suck now. Uhmm, the spending more than other teams recruiting free agents etc was all by design and not some struggle designed by the fates. The cap era success lasted a grand total of what, one year with a cup and a handful of years as a contender? Other teams have had far more years of success as a top team in the cap era without turning to mush like this.
Get over yourself, your Blackhawks sucked year after year, and then got lucky, by miles and away with Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, all becoming very good players. Quit pretending that your team hasn't had mass fortune and is some cap wizardry team. Without those 4 guys panning out your team would be in miserable cap shape and less successful too.

Also, I wasn't making excuses, was simply pointing out, that after that long eventually you will bottom out. You'll see in just a few short years, when Kane, Toews, and Keith fade to the backstretch of their careers. You too will need a new wave of fortune to keep going.

Same with the Penguins, they were on their way out of the league, got the extreme fortune of winning the draft that landed them Crosby and then also got Malkin, so again, quit marveling at the cap maintenance and drafting of your teams and other top teams.

Also, spending had nothing to do with winning cups, as the Rangers have always proved. They have far outspent any other team, the past 25 or so years, and have one cup since 1940.


Last edited by Oddbob: 02-17-2017 at 01:19 AM.
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Old
02-17-2017, 01:23 AM
  #98
Seiza
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Detroit needs to start drafting late round Swedes again. ☺

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Old
02-17-2017, 01:30 AM
  #99
Kahuna Nanu
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at least they got abdelakder locked up for 7 years.

dodged a bullet there, they could have lost his #leadership and #grit to free agency. now he can lead them back to the playoffs in 2023.

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Old
02-17-2017, 01:38 AM
  #100
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Detroit needs to start drafting late round Swedes again. ☺
Malmstrom, larsson, and elfstrom in the last draft.
Hakan Andersson will make this rebuild quick

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