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Breaking down the Blackhawks' decisions last 7 years

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Old
02-17-2017, 11:53 AM
  #26
b1e9a8r5s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Didn't they have to give some players significant raises, and ended losing some players as a result, because they submited qualifying offers too late?

Maybe i'm imagining thing but I think this happened....
Correct.

Dale Tallon didn't correctly check the box to submit the qualifying offers so I believe 6 RFAs became UFAs. It cost him his job. Had to give Versteeg 3 X 3 after his rookie year. There were a few other guys (Barker I believe) who also got more.

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Old
02-17-2017, 11:56 AM
  #27
rynryn
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don't even care to second guess any individual decisions: they have been dominant, won cups, stayed at the top of the standings. even if it all ended next season it would have been worth it IMO. questionable decisions or no, if they passed legal in NHLs eyes it works.

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02-17-2017, 12:00 PM
  #28
Hawksfan2828
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The only contract I had a real issue with that made me question Bowman was Bickell...

I was not a fan of that...... I have never heard of a player getting an 800% pay increase - ever.... If someone could find me one I would love to see it..

To put this into comparison Toews and Kane only got 90% pay increases.. Bickell went from 500k to 4 per...

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02-17-2017, 12:02 PM
  #29
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Props for figuring out which players to keep and for signing key ones (current and new i.e Panarin) But honnestly I would say that the Hawks lost all these trades except for the Brouwer and Shaw one (Saad one is pretty much a win-win) .

Considering the impact that Ladd had and Big Buff had and has on Atlanta/Winnipeg, the return was terrible.

I understand the cap problems kind of forced the trades and reduced the value of the players but Hawks basically traded Byfuglien, Ladd, Campbel, Nick Leddy, Sharp, Danault, Terraivanen for nothing or AHL players.

But at the end of the day, 3 cups in the last 6 seasons is massive!!!

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02-17-2017, 12:08 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
The only contract I had a real issue with that made me question Bowman was Bickell...

I was not a fan of that...... I have never heard of a player getting an 800% pay increase - ever.... If someone could find me one I would love to see it..
To put this into comparison Toews and Kane only got 90% pay increases.. Bickell went from 500k to 4 per...
I don't think that is as uncommon as you think.

I wasn't a huge fan of the Bickell deal at the time either, but to be fair it's impossible to know how much of his fall off was related to MS.

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02-17-2017, 12:10 PM
  #31
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They've probably been the best manger team in the league for years now.

With that said, management is facing perhaps their toughest challenge yet - how to remain competitive with 20+ million tied up into two players

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02-17-2017, 12:10 PM
  #32
Baemon Severson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post


Toews and Kane would have got 12 per if they hit UFA....

People seem not to understand that...

How often do core members of 3 time cup champion teams hit UFA?? oh yea, they don't....

Those contracts weren't bad at all....
Just because they could've gotten more, doesn't mean they're not terrible. I'll give you Kane, he's worth the money now, but we'll see where he ends up in years 5-8.

However, I think Toews is overpaid by about 2.5 million already, and it's likely gonna get worse.

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02-17-2017, 12:12 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
I don't think that is as uncommon as you think.

I wasn't a huge fan of the Bickell deal at the time either, but to be fair it's impossible to know how much of his fall off was related to MS also.
Oh, it's 100% unprecedented...

An 800% pay increase has never happened.

Think about it, imagine if a player was making 1 per, they would have to get an 8 per contract to match what Bickells raise was.

I would bet anything that Bickell is the only player in NHL history that received a 800% pay increase.

I mean Panarin got a 650% (off the top of my head)....

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02-17-2017, 12:15 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cenzo_ View Post
Props for figuring out which players to keep and for signing key ones (current and new i.e Panarin) But honnestly I would say that the Hawks lost all these trades except for the Brouwer and Shaw one (Saad one is pretty much a win-win) .

Considering the impact that Ladd had and Big Buff had and has on Atlanta/Winnipeg, the return was terrible.

I understand the cap problems kind of forced the trades and reduced the value of the players but Hawks basically traded Byfuglien, Ladd, Campbel, Nick Leddy, Sharp, Danault, Terraivanen for nothing or AHL players.

But at the end of the day, 3 cups in the last 6 seasons is massive!!!
For Buff, they got a 1st rounder, who would have been K Hayes...that's nothing? Sure, it turned into nothing because Hayes refused to sign in CHI, but the deal itself wasn't that bad at the time.

Ladd was traded for a 2nd, which turned out to be Adam Clendening, who Bowman flipped into Gustav Forsling. Hardly nothing.

Teravainen basically returned us a 2nd last year (Chad Krys), and a 3rd this year. Hardly nothing.

The only ones that turned into nothing were Campbell, Leddy, Sharp, and Danault. Danault was the only one that could have really been prevented.

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02-17-2017, 12:15 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Chicago would be in deep **** if:

1) They didn't get away with circumvention with Keith and Hossa
2) They didn't luck into Panarin

However, Bowman did terrible with Seabrook, Kane and Toews, so I doubt they'll be good in 3-5 years
at the same time, you really can't blame the hawks for signing toews and kane back. they pretty much had to. how many times do 1C and franchise wingers hit UFA?

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02-17-2017, 12:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Just because they could've gotten more, doesn't mean they're not terrible. I'll give you Kane, he's worth the money now, but we'll see where he ends up in years 5-8.

However, I think Toews is overpaid by about 2.5 million already, and it's likely gonna get worse.
But both would have got 12 if they were UFA's...

Any GM with that cap space would have signed either for that...

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02-17-2017, 12:15 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Oh, it's 100% unprecedented...

An 800% pay increase has never happened.

Think about it, imagine if a player was making 1 per, they would have to get an 8 per contract to match what Bickells raise was.

I would bet anything that Bickell is the only player in NHL history that received a 800% pay increase.

I mean Panarin got a 650% (off the top of my head)....
Jamie Benn
2011-12 630K

2012-13 5.25 Mil

833%

Taresenko
900K to 7.5

833%

Guys go from entry level to big deals all the time.

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02-17-2017, 12:16 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Oh, it's 100% unprecedented...

An 800% pay increase has never happened.

Think about it, imagine if a player was making 1 per, they would have to get an 8 per contract to match what Bickells raise was.

I would bet anything that Bickell is the only player in NHL history that received a 800% pay increase.

I mean Panarin got a 650% (off the top of my head)....
How many players are able to get signed to such multiple year low cap deals like Bickell even had, as much as the talk is of his bad deal that 3 year deal he had before was a huge blessing for the cap strapped retooling period.

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Old
02-17-2017, 12:18 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ClydeLee View Post
How many players are able to get signed to such multiple year low cap deals like Bickell even had, as much as the talk is of his bad deal that 3 year deal he had before was a huge blessing for the cap strapped retooling period.
Correct. Bickell signed low to help ensure his place on the team when the Hawks were up against it.

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02-17-2017, 12:20 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
Correct.

Dale Tallon didn't correctly check the box to submit the qualifying offers so I believe 6 RFAs became UFAs. It cost him his job. Had to give Versteeg 3 X 3 after his rookie year. There were a few other guys (Barker I believe) who also got more.
Actually this isn't completely true...Tallon was the GM and it did cost him his job...BUT the individual who was in charge of making sure that paperwork was correct and went out on time???
None other than Stanley Bowman...what a strange coincidence huh...Good thing Bowman didn't profit from his mistake huh?

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02-17-2017, 12:22 PM
  #41
Hawksfan2828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
Jamie Benn
2011-12 630K

2012-13 5.25 Mil

833%

Taresenko
900K to 7.2

Guys go from entry level to big deals all the time.
You found like the only 2 in existence then...

Oh and only because now teams are signing their young studs long term...

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02-17-2017, 12:23 PM
  #42
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3 cups say they did the rigjt things

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Old
02-17-2017, 12:24 PM
  #43
Hawksfan2828
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Originally Posted by ClydeLee View Post
How many players are able to get signed to such multiple year low cap deals like Bickell even had, as much as the talk is of his bad deal that 3 year deal he had before was a huge blessing for the cap strapped retooling period.
Bickell was never anything special really....

He got paid for what he did in the playoffs, and he only had one good run really...

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02-17-2017, 12:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SMantzas View Post
Just because they could've gotten more, doesn't mean they're not terrible. I'll give you Kane, he's worth the money now, but we'll see where he ends up in years 5-8.

However, I think Toews is overpaid by about 2.5 million already, and it's likely gonna get worse.
In hindsight, it wasn't a GREAT contract. The Hawks were wrong forecasting the cap. However, if the cap goes the other way in the next few years (not likely), the contracts look better.

When you win, you have to pay. It's the price of winning. The Penguins will be going through the same going forward.

If you take a step back ... it really comes down to Hossa or Seabrook's contract. If they figure out viable options with either of those, the Hawks are in decent shape.

Due to the hard cap, the NHL is about developing and paying your core ... and finding cheap but capable bottom 3 DMen and bottom 6 forwards. The Hawks are really good at that. Some luck doesn't hurt either.

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02-17-2017, 12:26 PM
  #45
Cenzo_
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
For Buff, they got a 1st rounder, who would have been K Hayes...that's nothing? Sure, it turned into nothing because Hayes refused to sign in CHI, but the deal itself wasn't that bad at the time.

Ladd was traded for a 2nd, which turned out to be Adam Clendening, who Bowman flipped into Gustav Forsling. Hardly nothing.

Teravainen basically returned us a 2nd last year (Chad Krys), and a 3rd this year. Hardly nothing. .
Come on, Hayes never played a game for you guys, this turned out a terrible trade.

Adam Clendening played 4 games. Gustav Forsling is indeed hardly nothing but his contribution for the Hawks is only after 7 years after the trade. When considering the impact Ladd had, this is a bad/very bad trade.

A 2nd and 3rd for Teravainen is not much and that is because of Bickell but then again who signed him to that terrible contract...

You have to admit that in insights the Hawks traded some damn good players but got very little returns... but hey 3 cups and still contenders is worth it all that's for sure!

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02-17-2017, 12:27 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
Bickell was never anything special really....

He got paid for what he did in the playoffs, and he only had one good run really...
apart from also being good in the playoffs every year he played them then, especially vs Vancouver in 2011

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02-17-2017, 12:27 PM
  #47
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Am I missing something ?

This looks terrible in the long run.

The only player they got out of all of this is Panarin.

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02-17-2017, 12:29 PM
  #48
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Either way, I think the young guys the Hawks have will keep them rolling another 5 years.

Panarin, Schmaltz, Hartman, Hinostroza, Kero, DeBrincat, Motte, Forsling, Kempny..

The Hawks already have a new wave coming....

I think the Hawks produce great players because they actually allow their young guys as much time as they need to develop and they don't rush them until they're NHL ready... That, and they have to really earn their roster spots.... If the kids aren't playing well they will be sent down until they work their kinks out....

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02-17-2017, 12:30 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ClydeLee View Post
apart from also being good in the playoffs every year he played them then, especially vs Vancouver in 2011
Bickell was not worth 4 per..... 3 per would be stretching it... 2.5 would have been appropriate..

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02-17-2017, 12:35 PM
  #50
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1. Win a lottery that shouldn't exist with Panarin-Check!

Seriously. They are a borderline playoff team without him. That's why even with the salary cap, true balance will never win out. Looking at you Vesey.

Every other trade they've made to relieve cap has been questionable at best.

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