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NHLPA appealing Vermette automatic 10-game suspension UPDATE 2/25 Appeal denied

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Old
02-19-2017, 01:18 PM
  #51
Nino33
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You all are "too much"

My opinion was solely based on I don't think an official should be touched, I could care less about all the CBA/legal stuff you keep repeating


My point about player quality/market size seems to have gone over your heads too...syc posted "He's not a star and plays in a small market. Zero chance this gets shortened." and I simply tried to get you all to understand that my opinion was similar to what syc - it was based on a personal view/feelings and not on the CBA or legals aspects (my opinion/view has been expressed by others in this thread too!...I stated long ago I knew I was expressing an opinion, I know how unions work, I wasn't disputing the unions actions but rather "expressing an OPINION of disapproval" but for some reason that's not good enough for some of you - I think, at this point, it's because you actually don't understand what an OPINION actually is, or what a comparison actually is...that's your problem not mine)


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 02-19-2017 at 03:20 PM. Reason: We don't laugh here
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Old
02-19-2017, 01:32 PM
  #52
Fugu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nino33 View Post
You all are "too much"

My opinion was solely based on I don't think an official should be touched, I could care less about all the CBA/legal stuff you keep repeating
Then maybe you shouldn't ask about the CBA is you don't care? In fact, all the enforcement about officials being attacked in any form is in the CBA.

Do you understand anti-trust laws in the US, and how that applies to pro sports leagues (except MLB, which is an oddity)?


Quote:
My point about player quality/market size seems to have gone over your heads too...syc posted "He's not a star and plays in a small market. Zero chance this gets shortened." and I simply tried to get you all to understand that my opinion was similar to what syc - it was based on a personal view/feelings and not on the CBA or legals aspects (my opinion/view has been expressed by others in this thread too!...I stated long ago I knew I was expressing an opinion, I know how unions work, I wasn't disputing the unions actions but rather "expressing an OPINION of disapproval" but for some reason that's not good enough for some of you - I think, at this point, it's because you actually don't understand what an OPINION actually is, or what a comparison actually is...that's your problem not mine)

I think you need to re-read your posts before attacking anyone else in this thread.


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 02-19-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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Old
02-19-2017, 01:38 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nino33 View Post
You all are "too much"

My opinion was solely based on I don't think an official should be touched, I could care less about all the CBA/legal stuff you keep repeating


My point about player quality/market size seems to have gone over your heads too...syc posted "He's not a star and plays in a small market. Zero chance this gets shortened." and I simply tried to get you all to understand that my opinion was similar to what syc - it was based on a personal view/feelings and not on the CBA or legals aspects (my opinion/view has been expressed by others in this thread too!...I stated long ago I knew I was expressing an opinion, I know how unions work, I wasn't disputing the unions actions but rather "expressing an OPINION of disapproval" but for some reason that's not good enough for some of you - I think, at this point, it's because you actually don't understand what an OPINION actually is, or what a comparison actually is...that's your problem not mine)
... what seems to be the problem here Nino?... thats your opinion, a tad conspiratorial however there have been uneven handed Suspensions handed out recently & in the past that one has a right to question, absolutely. If its your opinion, that you disapproved of the PA's actions in appealing the Suspension then as has been pointed out thats just the way the process operates, its automatic regardless of the offence though I suppose in the case of unintentional or intentional Manslaughter/Homicide but even then, there would be an Appeal Process. Just the way it is and you know that. Really no big deal, your entitled to your opinion, welcome to come here & calls them as you see's them.... Were hear to have fun, its not all about "debate win", merely a forum to discuss various business aspects of the game, the NHL. Problem?.... No problem.... Have fun, carry on. And if your not having fun, why bother?


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 02-19-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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Old
02-19-2017, 02:04 PM
  #54
tony d
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I disagree with them doing this. Touching a ref the way Vermette did is a definite no no, his suspension is warranted.

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02-21-2017, 05:29 PM
  #55
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 3h

Antoine Vermette's appeal hearing is scheduled for Thursday at the NHL's office in NYC.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disappointed it's this soon - hopefully that means suspension stays in tact (or increased) so that he can make vacation plans.

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02-21-2017, 05:52 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 3h

Antoine Vermette's appeal hearing is scheduled for Thursday at the NHL's office in NYC.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disappointed it's this soon - hopefully that means suspension stays in tact (or increased) so that he can make vacation plans.
No reason for a delay probably. Wideman's took awhile last year but he had an excuse for his actions that required a lot of investigation. I don't know what Vermette's excuse is but I really doubt they're going to be bringing in medical records for it. Even if he appeals to the neutral arbitrator after this one it should still be a pretty quick process.

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Old
02-23-2017, 02:30 PM
  #57
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Vermette hearing underway. The NHL is usually pretty quick to rule, expect we'll hear by tomorrow.

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Old
02-23-2017, 10:27 PM
  #58
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I don't know if anybody's read Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts this week (here), but my reading of the article (Point 1) is that the NHL and NHLPA had negotiated a shorter suspension before the Officials forced the NHL's hand.

I understand why some posters may see this as a black and white issue, but I think the NHLPA will benefit from clarity on what is a Category I, II, and III infraction. Obviously they want Category III to be defined as broad as possible, and maybe this case, where Vermette hit an official, but borderline as to his intent, is the case that stretches the definition.

Bright-line rules are only bright-lined until a clever lawyer finds the nuance.

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02-25-2017, 01:34 PM
  #59
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02-25-2017, 01:44 PM
  #60
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I can't see how they could do anything but uphold the suspension without creating an issue with the NHL Officials Association. The rules are fairly black and white, don't touch the officials.

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Old
02-25-2017, 02:44 PM
  #61
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Not too surprising. Vermette has 7 days to decide if he'll appeal again.

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Old
02-25-2017, 03:40 PM
  #62
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Full ruling here:
https://nhl.bamcontent.com/images/as...-file/file.pdf

One interesting nugget: according to the filing, the commissioner did not reduce the Mike Peca suspension. It was reduced by the same Officials that originally issued the suspension after hearing testimony and reviewing evidence at the appeal hearing.


Last edited by mouser: 02-25-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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02-25-2017, 05:23 PM
  #63
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02-26-2017, 07:54 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Interesting that the NHLPA, whose players constantly complain about non calls, negotiated for five games on a rule clearly written in the rule book by the NHL. Once again the officials make the right call.

And as long as Wideman is in the league (and maybe beyond) I can't imagine there will be any negotiating on clearly broken rules. Good on the NHLOA.

I wonder how much smoke is around the issue.........maybe this will fuel the fire as Vermette "looks" at his options now..........

More Options but I'm Deserving of Punishment

“First and foremost, I have great respect for the officials and the integrity of the game. Also, I agree that I deserve a suspension. I should never m mae contact with an official. At the earliest possible opportunity, I apologized to Mr. Shandor Alphonso. I was trying to get his attention and was not trying to hurt him. Howerver, using my stick was a mistake, and I accept full responsibility for my actions. I certainly hope my track record in the NHL will earn me the benefit of the doubt regarding this incident. I feel a 10-game suspension is excessive and will be reviewing my options. I look forward to returning to the lineup as soon as possible.”

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02-26-2017, 05:17 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nino33 View Post
You all are "too much"

My opinion was solely based on I don't think an official should be touched, I could care less about all the CBA/legal stuff you keep repeating


My point about player quality/market size seems to have gone over your heads too...syc posted "He's not a star and plays in a small market. Zero chance this gets shortened." and I simply tried to get you all to understand that my opinion was similar to what syc - it was based on a personal view/feelings and not on the CBA or legals aspects (my opinion/view has been expressed by others in this thread too!...I stated long ago I knew I was expressing an opinion, I know how unions work, I wasn't disputing the unions actions but rather "expressing an OPINION of disapproval" but for some reason that's not good enough for some of you - I think, at this point, it's because you actually don't understand what an OPINION actually is, or what a comparison actually is...that's your problem not mine)
Unions were created to protect member workers on subjects ranging from working conditions to pay to working hours to benefits. It has evolved over the years and varies from industry to industry. One of the conflicts for the unions is protecting when one member commits an action against another member such as suspension for a hit on a player.

In this case, the player committed a violation of a very specific rule in the CBA. Regardless of whether you think the rule in the CBA goes to far or not far enough isn't really something for discussion. The rule is the rule. The only thing the appeal can try to do is get the whacking of the ref with the stick classified differently. Vermette and the union obviously do not understand the rule. Category II is intentional contact without the intent to cause injury which carries a minimum penalty of 10 games. Vermette was trying to get it classified as a III whic provides more leeway in the penalty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Interesting that the NHLPA, whose players constantly complain about non calls, negotiated for five games on a rule clearly written in the rule book by the NHL. Once again the officials make the right call.

And as long as Wideman is in the league (and maybe beyond) I can't imagine there will be any negotiating on clearly broken rules. Good on the NHLOA.

I wonder how much smoke is around the issue.........maybe this will fuel the fire as Vermette "looks" at his options now..........

More Options but I'm Deserving of Punishment

“First and foremost, I have great respect for the officials and the integrity of the game. Also, I agree that I deserve a suspension. I should never m mae contact with an official. At the earliest possible opportunity, I apologized to Mr. Shandor Alphonso. I was trying to get his attention and was not trying to hurt him. Howerver, using my stick was a mistake, and I accept full responsibility for my actions. I certainly hope my track record in the NHL will earn me the benefit of the doubt regarding this incident. I feel a 10-game suspension is excessive and will be reviewing my options. I look forward to returning to the lineup as soon as possible.”
Now Vermette is trying a mea culpa. He clearly doesn't understand there is no wiggle room unless it gets reclassified. This isn't like a hit to the head or boarding or anything. This is one of the most clear rules in the CBA.

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Old
02-26-2017, 05:23 PM
  #66
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Vermette and Wideman are both idiots. Serve the penalty, say sorry and move on. Now they're both gonna be blacklisted by officials and teams.

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02-27-2017, 08:33 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Vermette and Wideman are both idiots. Serve the penalty, say sorry and move on. Now they're both gonna be blacklisted by officials and teams.
Friedman recently reported that the Flames, NHL and NHLOA talked about calls that were/not happening giving the appearance that the team and Wideman were not getting fair calls.

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03-13-2017, 04:01 PM
  #68
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/3...es-turnaround/

Quote:
In the end, Antoine Vermette decided not to appeal his 10-game suspension for slashing linesman Shandor Alphonso. NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman and the NHLPA did work out a reduction to five games — which I thought was fair in this case — but it was contingent on the referees/linesmen agreeing to it. They were not willing to do so, because they did not want to weaken a rule that protects them.
Wideman strikes again.

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Old
03-13-2017, 09:07 PM
  #69
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Perfectly understandable by the officials. The Wideman arbitration ruling was severely flawed.

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Old
03-13-2017, 09:21 PM
  #70
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Thanks for the update. I'd been wondering if we'd hear more. I think that's the best decision for him. Accept the punishment and move on.

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