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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Ducks' shameful TV ratings

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Old
02-21-2017, 04:19 AM
  #26
Skill Bill
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Well, as someone that listens to a good chunk of local broadcasts via NHL.tv, their homer announcers are easily amongst the worst, if not the very worst, that I've listened to. Might play a roll.
Agreeed, unbearable for me as well. I like watching Ducks hockey but I'd rather choose any feed over Ducks' feed on NHL.tv. It's great news that Ducks are set for the following 8 seasons.

I apologize for not having a better source than Forbes but I find it alarming that Ducks are struggling to break even financially amidst four consecutive division titles, a few star players on the roster and modest player expenses. Ducks' tickets are among the most affordable in the league and their fan base is rather small. I'm afraid the team is going to struggle a bit financially if they stop showing promise on the ice.

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Old
02-21-2017, 05:37 AM
  #27
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It's an odd thing, the California hockey market. I am 2 hours from San Jose, 3.5 hours from LA and according to the NHL, I'm in both markets. A few seasons ago, I was all 3's markets while still in the same ZIP. Did the Ducks' area shrink?

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Old
02-21-2017, 05:43 AM
  #28
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Ten years ago the lowest prime time audience for any program in the entire history of NBC was a SCF game between the Ducks and Ottawa.

There were more viewers watching that game on WGRZ-TV in Buffalo than on KNBC-TV in Los Angeles.

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Old
02-23-2017, 05:47 AM
  #29
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Wednesday night the Ducks hosted the Bruins and it wasn't close to being sold out.

Announced attendance was 15,135 (88.1% full) and there were close to 5,000 Bruins fans in the arena.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400885289


The Ducks could have the smallest hardcore base of fans in the NHL and certainly in the bottom 5. The Ducks exist mainly because Bruce McNall needed cash to meet Kings payroll and Disney was intrigued by hockey.

We here at BoH never include the Ducks as a 'troubled' franchise but in the pecking order of SoCal sports they have to be close to the bottom of the list.

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Old
02-23-2017, 07:41 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
Wednesday night the Ducks hosted the Bruins and it wasn't close to being sold out.

Announced attendance was 15,135 (88.1% full) and there were close to 5,000 Bruins fans in the arena.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400885289


The Ducks could have the smallest hardcore base of fans in the NHL and certainly in the bottom 5. The Ducks exist mainly because Bruce McNall needed cash to meet Kings payroll and Disney was intrigued by hockey.

We here at BoH never include the Ducks as a 'troubled' franchise but in the pecking order of SoCal sports they have to be close to the bottom of the list.
Yeah, McNall had become Chairman of the BOG's & headed up the NHL Expansion & Relo Committee, and in addition to Eisner & Disney, recruited Wayne Huizenga of Blockbuster fame in Florida, while also playing a key role in recruiting Gary Bettman as Commissioner who inherited quite the mess from Gil Stein, Ziegler, Wirtz... Eagleson about to go down.... and as it turned out, from McNall himself... who in an interview given awhile back said that in retrospect he thinks he erred in being overly hasty in pushing for Expansion the way he did. McNalls original "vision" in acquiring Gretzky was multifold whereby he not only re-energized a relatively moribund franchise in LA but so too the game in SoCal & the SW, however I for one always believed the "Gretzky Factor" was seriously overrated then and looking back on it all, nothings changed my mind, and in fact "the trade" causing a considerable number of problems for the League over the past 25+ years... Desperate for money, McNall managed to talk Eisner of Disney with its fairly successful Mighty Ducks Movie Franchise that an NHL Team would be an excellent marketing extension & arm to not only the movie but so too Disneys' live event properties, merchandise sales through Disneys theme parks & stores etc, and Eisner, always overarching, decided to roll the dice but did so on his terms, McNall never actually seeing the portion of the Expansion Fee & Indemnification which he himself had in yet another case of NHL ownership self dealing, pushing Anaheim to the front of the line, pay-off & payday for McNall duplicitously incorporated into the transaction.... The team does have good ownership today in Henry & Susan Samueli, still relatively young & passionate fans of the game, done a lot for it in OC & SoCal so I wouldnt be freaking about lousy TV ratings. Its not good but no reason to be hitting the panic button... Now if they were to sell, then ya, you might wanna start worrying depending on who buys.


Last edited by Killion: 02-23-2017 at 07:51 AM.
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Old
02-23-2017, 06:05 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
Wednesday night the Ducks hosted the Bruins and it wasn't close to being sold out.

Announced attendance was 15,135 (88.1% full) and there were close to 5,000 Bruins fans in the arena.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400885289


The Ducks could have the smallest hardcore base of fans in the NHL and certainly in the bottom 5. The Ducks exist mainly because Bruce McNall needed cash to meet Kings payroll and Disney was intrigued by hockey.

We here at BoH never include the Ducks as a 'troubled' franchise but in the pecking order of SoCal sports they have to be close to the bottom of the list.
I think there are certainly some scary indicators here if this franchise every stops being good.

A mediocre to bad team in this area looks like it might draw Arizona sized crowds

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02-23-2017, 06:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
I think there are certainly some scary indicators here if this franchise every stops being good.

A mediocre to bad team in this area looks like it might draw Arizona sized crowds
The Ducks are indeed a very well-run organization. But how much of their success has to do with being such a cupcake market? The weather is nice and the fan/media pressure is lower than low, maybe the lowest in the league. I'm sure it's an easier situation to thrive in than Philadelphia or Boston, places where lots of people do watch the games on TV. And don't even mention Montreal or Buffalo.

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Old
02-23-2017, 06:29 PM
  #33
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why do americans still use ratings numbers? In canada eh, we just use viewership numbers.

BTW, the lowest canadian viewers is probably Senators on TSN regional, I'm guessing 80k a game.

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02-23-2017, 06:29 PM
  #34
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I'd be curious as to the breakdown by day for the Ducks. Anaheim tends to have Friday-Sunday games while the Kings get Thursday-Saturday. Even with later games on Sunday, I'd think the Ducks run into some TV competition with Sunday Night Football games and Laker home games. And I'd be curious if the Rams returning to SoCal had any effect on things.

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Old
02-23-2017, 06:35 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
why do americans still use ratings numbers? In canada eh, we just use viewership numbers.

BTW, the lowest canadian viewers is probably Senators on TSN regional, I'm guessing 80k a game.

Nielsen.

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Old
02-24-2017, 04:55 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
Wednesday night the Ducks hosted the Bruins and it wasn't close to being sold out.

Announced attendance was 15,135 (88.1% full) and there were close to 5,000 Bruins fans in the arena.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400885289


The Ducks could have the smallest hardcore base of fans in the NHL and certainly in the bottom 5. The Ducks exist mainly because Bruce McNall needed cash to meet Kings payroll and Disney was intrigued by hockey.

We here at BoH never include the Ducks as a 'troubled' franchise but in the pecking order of SoCal sports they have to be close to the bottom of the list.
The Ducks appeared to be in a spot of trouble in the early 2000s. Their attendance sharply declined and the official numbers released were several thousand more than what was actually in the stands...a similar phenomenon experienced in a few other markets recently.

If and when the ducks experience a few seasons out of the playoffs expect those attendance problems to resurface.

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Old
02-24-2017, 05:04 AM
  #37
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Ducks aren't considered a troubled franchise because they have stable, deep-pocketed ownership that seems committed to the market.

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Old
02-24-2017, 06:13 AM
  #38
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Not surprising. The team never makes money

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Old
02-25-2017, 10:23 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
Wednesday night the Ducks hosted the Bruins and it wasn't close to being sold out.

Announced attendance was 15,135 (88.1% full) and there were close to 5,000 Bruins fans in the arena.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400885289


The Ducks could have the smallest hardcore base of fans in the NHL and certainly in the bottom 5. The Ducks exist mainly because Bruce McNall needed cash to meet Kings payroll and Disney was intrigued by hockey.

We here at BoH never include the Ducks as a 'troubled' franchise but in the pecking order of SoCal sports they have to be close to the bottom of the list.

This is true. No way there would be an Anaheim expansion team today. Even though Orange County is mostly a rich area, there's just no big money there for sports teams. Anaheim is basically a glorified residential city. If there was to be a second Socal team today, it would be based in LA.

The Angels are fine in Anaheim because they have a long history there but their owner could only wish it was an actual LA team.

The Anaheim Royals would've been a disaster.

Why have there never been talks about an MLS team in Anaheim? Exactly.

Orange County was never involved in possibly bringing the NFL back to the LA market.

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Old
02-25-2017, 01:06 PM
  #40
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Ducks are growing hockey in California but they will never have an even average fanbase unless they have a Mcdavid.

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Old
02-25-2017, 01:32 PM
  #41
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As someone mentioned, who wants to listen Hayward 82 times a year?

That said, the Ducks are doing great things in grassroots youth hockey in the region. Significantly more than the Kings are (though they are doing similar things, just on a lesser scale). It may take a generation for some of this to pay off. Ducks own 4 rinks and 7 sheets of ice, and are about to build a new mega complex in Irvine.

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02-25-2017, 01:46 PM
  #42
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pretty sure the consistent playoff failures of the past few years have something to do with it. that'll really make casual fans completely lose interest

the ducks aren't necessarily the most fun team to watch either, the current team makes for a pretty boring product

they've done quite a lot to help the growth of hockey in socal and it's definitely paid off but the kings still own the socal hockey market without a doubt. the ducks basically rely on attracting casual fans and new fans of the game while most older (30+) hockey fans tend to be kings fans as the franchise has been around much longer

unless you're the lakers or dodgers, playoff success is the only way to ensure good attendance in socal and the same goes for the ducks

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Old
02-25-2017, 07:54 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
Wednesday night the Ducks hosted the Bruins and it wasn't close to being sold out.

Announced attendance was 15,135 (88.1% full) and there were close to 5,000 Bruins fans in the arena.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=400885289


The Ducks could have the smallest hardcore base of fans in the NHL and certainly in the bottom 5. The Ducks exist mainly because Bruce McNall needed cash to meet Kings payroll and Disney was intrigued by hockey.

We here at BoH never include the Ducks as a 'troubled' franchise but in the pecking order of SoCal sports they have to be close to the bottom of the list.
The Ducks exist because of McNall and Eisner, but Anaheim would have had a team whether or not it was the Mighty Ducks or the Anaheim Stars. Norm Green was set to move the North Stars to Anaheim and even picked out his office location in the Arrowhead Pond. But McNall used his position on the NHL BoG to "convince" Green he could move his franchise out of Minnesota anywhere except California and Florida because McNall wanted the expansion fees from the two new franchises, including half of the $50M Disney would pay the NHL owners because Anaheim was in his back yard.

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Old
02-25-2017, 09:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Ducks are growing hockey in California but they will never have an even average fanbase unless they have a Mcdavid.
If you think that the Ducks getting a 1st overall pick and a franchise player in the vein of a McDavid or Crosby (as opposed to a Nolan Patrick, or Nugent-Hopkins) is going to be the catalyst in the metamorphosis of Anaheim into a legitimate hockey market, you're sadly mistaken. It's gonna take a lot more than that. When they played the Sens for the Cup in '07, the atmosphere for Finals games at Honda Centre was like an oversized library.....

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02-25-2017, 10:25 PM
  #45
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Worst ratings in the league. Link in the tweet.

San Diego Ducks here we come!

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Old
02-25-2017, 11:15 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
If you think that the Ducks getting a 1st overall pick and a franchise player in the vein of a McDavid or Crosby (as opposed to a Nolan Patrick, or Nugent-Hopkins) is going to be the catalyst in the metamorphosis of Anaheim into a legitimate hockey market, you're sadly mistaken. It's gonna take a lot more than that. When they played the Sens for the Cup in '07, the atmosphere for Finals games at Honda Centre was like an oversized library.....
I was at all but two home games of the run in 2007 and that isn't even close to accurate

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Old
02-25-2017, 11:46 PM
  #47
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pretty sure the consistent playoff failures of the past few years have something to do with it. that'll really make casual fans completely lose interest
They only lost the first round last year. They made it to the 3rd round 2 years ago and the 2nd round 3 years ago. And this is a team that's only failed to miss the playoffs twice in the last 9 seasons since winning the Cup. Are they supposed to make the finals every few years? There are 30 teams - not everyone can win. And if some of these teams win a cup often - I suspect the excuse of winning too much will be used to explain bad ratings.

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Old
02-25-2017, 11:59 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
If you think that the Ducks getting a 1st overall pick and a franchise player in the vein of a McDavid or Crosby (as opposed to a Nolan Patrick, or Nugent-Hopkins) is going to be the catalyst in the metamorphosis of Anaheim into a legitimate hockey market, you're sadly mistaken. It's gonna take a lot more than that. When they played the Sens for the Cup in '07, the atmosphere for Finals games at Honda Centre was like an oversized library.....
That's some straight up ********.

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Old
02-26-2017, 02:27 AM
  #49
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Ten years ago the lowest prime time audience for any program in the entire history of NBC was a SCF game between the Ducks and Ottawa.

There were more viewers watching that game on WGRZ-TV in Buffalo than on KNBC-TV in Los Angeles.
That was the Ducks zenith and Southern California yawned. Since then the Kings have won 2 Cups and have seem to have a decent hardcore base but still way down in the LA sports totem pole.

You have to look at Ducks and Kings TV numbers with a grain of salt because of the number of road games that start at 4 PM. MLB and NBA teams have the same problem.

But I can not think of any other NHL franchise with the exception of Arizona where visiting fans constantly drown out the home fans. It remains to be seen what Vegas crowds will be like but I know many in Boston are waiting for the schedule before they plan a road trip.

Would the Ducks be helped if they re-branded as the LA Ducks? The baseball team across the street from the Ducks indicates it wouldn't hurt.

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Old
02-26-2017, 02:53 AM
  #50
Terry Yake
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They only lost the first round last year. They made it to the 3rd round 2 years ago and the 2nd round 3 years ago. And this is a team that's only failed to miss the playoffs twice in the last 9 seasons since winning the Cup. Are they supposed to make the finals every few years? There are 30 teams - not everyone can win. And if some of these teams win a cup often - I suspect the excuse of winning too much will be used to explain bad ratings.
like i said, unless its the lakers or dodgers, socal sports fans only support winners and that's x10 when it comes to orange county sports fans and hockey, despite its growth, is still very clearly the least popular of the 4 major sports

and it's not so much that they've made it deep into the playoffs recently but rather the way they've lost. heartbreaking game 7 losses the last 4 years. that's more than enough to make the casual fan lose interest

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