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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Ducks' shameful TV ratings

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Old
02-26-2017, 11:14 AM
  #51
Baemon Severson
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Damn, Devils up 58%? When they get good, ratings will certainly get above .5

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02-26-2017, 11:20 AM
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what about their regional tv, is it available to everyone? Prime Ticket seems like a spinoff of FSN LA

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02-26-2017, 08:06 PM
  #53
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what about their regional tv, is it available to everyone? Prime Ticket seems like a spinoff of FSN LA
as far as i know, FSNPT is available to everyone

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02-27-2017, 03:57 AM
  #54
James Franco
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Pathetic offseason from an entertainment standpoint. Firing a popular coach and hiring a coach the fanbase hates. Playing hardball with two young stars weeks into the beginning of the season. GM who refuses to upgrade team due to not wanting to shake things up or loose assets which he usually pisses away due to waivers or prospects rotting and not panning out. Horrible play by play and color analyst, with a boring media crew overall. Lack luster updates to things in general and a terrible media presence. Beat writer who generally doesn't talk about the Ducks till its old news. All time low hype overall around the team. Way less ticket promotions. Just an overall mess management and media wise.

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02-28-2017, 09:40 AM
  #55
Big McLargehuge
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
That was the Ducks zenith and Southern California yawned. Since then the Kings have won 2 Cups and have seem to have a decent hardcore base but still way down in the LA sports totem pole.

You have to look at Ducks and Kings TV numbers with a grain of salt because of the number of road games that start at 4 PM. MLB and NBA teams have the same problem.

But I can not think of any other NHL franchise with the exception of Arizona where visiting fans constantly drown out the home fans. It remains to be seen what Vegas crowds will be like but I know many in Boston are waiting for the schedule before they plan a road trip.

Would the Ducks be helped if they re-branded as the LA Ducks? The baseball team across the street from the Ducks indicates it wouldn't hurt.
It has nothing to do with what the team is called and everything to do with where they play. Fans on both sides of the Dodgers/Angels divide roll their eye at the Angels' name...and frankly Angels hats are probably around the 7th or 8th most common I see in LA itself. They're not an LA team, they're Orange County's team, no matter how much Moreno wants some of that Dodgers money.

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what about their regional tv, is it available to everyone? Prime Ticket seems like a spinoff of FSN LA
Non-issue. The RSL that has coverage concerns in this market is Time Warner/Spectrum Sportsnet, which covers the Dodgers and Galaxy.

edit: Lakers too. Pffft, basketball.

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Old
03-04-2017, 08:01 AM
  #56
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Would the Ducks be helped if they re-branded as the LA Ducks? The baseball team across the street from the Ducks indicates it wouldn't hurt.
Helllllllll no. That would alienate current fans. It has done nothing for the Angels.


Last edited by Killion: 03-04-2017 at 10:19 AM. Reason: quote function error...
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03-06-2017, 09:31 PM
  #57
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Helllllllll no. That would alienate current fans. It has done nothing for the Angels.
But what if it was the 'Los Angeles Ducks of Anaheim'?

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03-09-2017, 07:40 PM
  #58
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Having lived in both Southern California and Southern Florida, I would say that both regions have "too many other diversions," as well as large immigrant communities for whom hockey (especially in a warm climate) is a bizarre concept. The same could almost be said to a smaller extent about the football teams.

Hopefully, with time, a loyal fan base will develop. Also, an outreach to communities for whom hockey is not a natural pastime is helpful in creating a fan base.

Cities like Pittsburgh, which are more insular and suffer from horrible weather, develop a lot stronger fan base that is frequently able to weather the vicissitudes of any sports franchise.

It is only because of the success of the team and the outreach by the Pens to youth hockey, however, are there now young players from Pittsburgh in the NHL (Gibson, Saad, Trocheck).

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03-10-2017, 05:24 AM
  #59
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The analytics guys have shown that TV ratings are high correlated to Corsi and shot differential. Good ole coach Randy is driving the ratings into the ground

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03-10-2017, 06:30 AM
  #60
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Yeah, McNall had become Chairman of the BOG's & headed up the NHL Expansion & Relo Committee, and in addition to Eisner & Disney, recruited Wayne Huizenga of Blockbuster fame in Florida, while also playing a key role in recruiting Gary Bettman as Commissioner who inherited quite the mess from Gil Stein, Ziegler, Wirtz... Eagleson about to go down.... and as it turned out, from McNall himself... who in an interview given awhile back said that in retrospect he thinks he erred in being overly hasty in pushing for Expansion the way he did. McNalls original "vision" in acquiring Gretzky was multifold whereby he not only re-energized a relatively moribund franchise in LA but so too the game in SoCal & the SW, however I for one always believed the "Gretzky Factor" was seriously overrated then and looking back on it all, nothings changed my mind, and in fact "the trade" causing a considerable number of problems for the League over the past 25+ years... Desperate for money, McNall managed to talk Eisner of Disney with its fairly successful Mighty Ducks Movie Franchise that an NHL Team would be an excellent marketing extension & arm to not only the movie but so too Disneys' live event properties, merchandise sales through Disneys theme parks & stores etc, and Eisner, always overarching, decided to roll the dice but did so on his terms, McNall never actually seeing the portion of the Expansion Fee & Indemnification which he himself had in yet another case of NHL ownership self dealing, pushing Anaheim to the front of the line, pay-off & payday for McNall duplicitously incorporated into the transaction.... The team does have good ownership today in Henry & Susan Samueli, still relatively young & passionate fans of the game, done a lot for it in OC & SoCal so I wouldnt be freaking about lousy TV ratings. Its not good but no reason to be hitting the panic button... Now if they were to sell, then ya, you might wanna start worrying depending on who buys.
Seems like Ducks in Anaheim are very similar to Devils in New Jersey.

Both teams that from the outside make very little sense but they've managed to carve out their own niche in a market. Ideally from a league perspective, they would probably rather those teams in different markets.

Just a quick question though, but where do you get all this information from? Would love to read some in depth articles/books on the NHL.

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03-10-2017, 10:27 AM
  #61
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Just a quick question though, but where do you get all this information from? Would love to read some in depth articles/books on the NHL.
... oh, Ive been following not only the on ice stuff for over 50yrs but so too the business aspects of the game for 30+ years, contemporaneously, historically going way back to the 1870's. A good book to read, primer... Net Worth by Cruise & Griffiths. Published in 1991. CBC movie made in 1995 based on a portion of the book dealing with the first attempts in creating a Players Association in the late 50's, which may be available on youtube... well done, interesting watch, one of the better hockey movies ever made but only a very small slice of the book... Lots of books written on the BOH, biographies etc. Seek & ye shall find.

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03-10-2017, 08:13 PM
  #62
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I was at all but two home games of the run in 2007 and that isn't even close to accurate
And I watched their run through Van, Detroit, and eventually Ottawa on TV. You could hear a pin drop. I'm not saying the rink wasn't full, it most certainly was. What I'm saying was the atmosphere was non existent for the Stanley Cup Playoffs. No electricity, no intensity. Compare it to the atmosphere one year earlier at Raleigh's RBC Centre and it was night and day.

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03-11-2017, 07:33 AM
  #63
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The analytics guys have shown that TV ratings are high correlated to Corsi and shot differential. Good ole coach Randy is driving the ratings into the ground
Interesting note, in the 80s the leafs paid a polling company to find out what fans like want and basically they concluded that fans would rather pay for high scoring exciting losses then boring wins. Like a decade ago the star had an article about it, fascinating stuff.

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03-11-2017, 07:35 AM
  #64
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Seems like Ducks in Anaheim are very similar to Devils in New Jersey.

Both teams that from the outside make very little sense but they've managed to carve out their own niche in a market. Ideally from a league perspective, they would probably rather those teams in different markets.

Just a quick question though, but where do you get all this information from? Would love to read some in depth articles/books on the NHL.
Both teams lose money every year even with Playoff runs.

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03-13-2017, 03:52 PM
  #65
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The Ducks biggest problem is that they have followed up its biggest achievements by crapping the bed the next season, save for 2007 when they won it all following a WCF appearance the year prior.

2003 saw them reach Game 7 of the SCF and have JSG win the Smythe. Followed that up with the faces of the franchise bolting as FAs within weeks.

2007 saw them win the Cup. They then preceded to win one playoff series until 2014.

Game 7 of WCFs in 2015. Start the next season horribly, still win the division but lose another Game 7 at home. Then fire the coach and bring in a retread.

It is an uphill battle fighting for hockey fans in SoCal. Most will lean towards the Kings just due to history with this being greatly exacerbated by LA's success from 2012-14. The Ducks have to maintain some sort of extended playoff success to build a larger base but they have routinely fumbled opportunities to do so.

All that being said, you can get in to Staples tonight for $12.50 after fees to see LA play the Blues who they are currently three points behind in the standings. Since losing to Vancouver two Saturday's ago, resale prices have cratered. It will still be a full building tonight but the Kings bandwagon has a broken axle. Two Cups in three years will do a franchise well but, in SoCal, you can't win one playoff game in the two years following and sit in 9th place with 15 games left and expect everyone to fall all over themselves to go to a game: not with so many options for entertainment dollars.


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03-13-2017, 06:35 PM
  #66
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The Ducks biggest problem is that they have followed up its biggest achievements by crapping the bed the next season, save for 2007 when they won it all following a WCF appearance the year prior.
The Blackhawks followed their 2010 and 2015 championships with first-round eliminations. So did the 2012 Bruins. The Kings and Hurricanes missed altogether. That's hockey (baby).

Another way to look at it is that the Ducks have won their division four years in a row and hung around the league's elite since the lockout: a championship, three conference finals, five divisional championships, and closing in on ten playoff appearances in twelve years. And to that, you say "yeah, but here, we need more"? How churlish these Ducks fans are.

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03-13-2017, 07:26 PM
  #67
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The Blackhawks followed their 2010 and 2015 championships with first-round eliminations. So did the 2012 Bruins. The Kings and Hurricanes missed altogether. That's hockey (baby).

Another way to look at it is that the Ducks have won their division four years in a row and hung around the league's elite since the lockout: a championship, three conference finals, five divisional championships, and closing in on ten playoff appearances in twelve years. And to that, you say "yeah, but here, we need more"? How churlish these Ducks fans are.
Hawks are an O6, were forced to shed players after 2010 but still took the #1 seed to Game 7 as an underdog in 2011. 2012 saw them lose again but a lot of it could be chalked up to Torres/Hossa. Then they went ahead and won two more Cups.

Boston is also an O6. Big fan base already in place. Went to the SCF again two years later.

Kings went Cup/WCF/Cup before missing the playoffs. Resale market has cratered so the bandwagon has gotten lighter, but I bet the ratings are still good when compared to historical Kings ratings. I may no longer be pulling a nice return on my resale tickets, but there is still a market for them. It's just that now it is the younger Kings fans with less disposable income that are buying them; by the looks of them and hearing them talk, they are fans since 2012.

Hurricanes? Yep. How is that working out? Probably the best comparison to the Ducks.

The Ducks ratings last season were the highest out of all the years noted in OP's first post. That is coming off Game 7 of the WCF. To lose in the first round in another Game 7 at home just blows away any capital earned by the previous year's deep playoff run.

Regular season means nothing if you win the division every year but get bounced early. Since winning it all in 2007 they have made the playoffs seven times but have won only four playoff series with three of the four being first round wins and half of those series victories occurring in the same post-season, the one that ultimately led into the highest rated season for viewership.

I wouldn't say they are churlish, it's more that there just aren't a lot of Ducks fans. The die hard fans are there but the team has, unfortunately, not been able to build upon those moments where they've been able to capture the attention of the passive OC sports fan. It is simply not a great market for hockey due to the Kings being so close and having a huge head start. I grew up in Orange County but I was already a Kings fan so I didn't jump ship: there are many like me. For those with no allegiances to the Kings; however, a three-year stretch like the Kings had from 2102-14 would do wonders for making OC money care about the Ducks.

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03-13-2017, 11:06 PM
  #68
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And I watched their run through Van, Detroit, and eventually Ottawa on TV. You could hear a pin drop. I'm not saying the rink wasn't full, it most certainly was. What I'm saying was the atmosphere was non existent for the Stanley Cup Playoffs. No electricity, no intensity. Compare it to the atmosphere one year earlier at Raleigh's RBC Centre and it was night and day.

It's nice you know more about how loud it was in the Honda Center from the confines of your living room versus someone who was actually there. I was there and it was loud. And the Canadian media even were surprised how loud it was; one hockey analyst made a comment that he was in the bowels of the Honda Center during the playoffs and he felt the walls and support columns of the building shaking like it was about to come down and was surprised how loud it was.

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03-13-2017, 11:36 PM
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It's nice you know more about how loud it was in the Honda Center from the confines of your living room versus someone who was actually there. I was there and it was loud. And the Canadian media even were surprised how loud it was; one hockey analyst made a comment that he was in the bowels of the Honda Center during the playoffs and he felt the walls and support columns of the building shaking like it was about to come down and was surprised how loud it was.
Clearly hd tv was more effective than being there....

The Cup clinching game had my ears wringing afterward, but tbh that would happen anywhere.

But yeah, I was surprised at the volume in that run, especially the Bancouver games I was at.

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03-13-2017, 11:49 PM
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Hawks are an O6, were forced to shed players after 2010 but still took the #1 seed to Game 7 as an underdog in 2011. 2012 saw them lose again but a lot of it could be chalked up to Torres/Hossa. Then they went ahead and won two more Cups.

Boston is also an O6. Big fan base already in place. Went to the SCF again two years later.

Kings went Cup/WCF/Cup before missing the playoffs. Resale market has cratered so the bandwagon has gotten lighter, but I bet the ratings are still good when compared to historical Kings ratings. I may no longer be pulling a nice return on my resale tickets, but there is still a market for them. It's just that now it is the younger Kings fans with less disposable income that are buying them; by the looks of them and hearing them talk, they are fans since 2012.

Hurricanes? Yep. How is that working out? Probably the best comparison to the Ducks.

The Ducks ratings last season were the highest out of all the years noted in OP's first post. That is coming off Game 7 of the WCF. To lose in the first round in another Game 7 at home just blows away any capital earned by the previous year's deep playoff run.

Regular season means nothing if you win the division every year but get bounced early. Since winning it all in 2007 they have made the playoffs seven times but have won only four playoff series with three of the four being first round wins and half of those series victories occurring in the same post-season, the one that ultimately led into the highest rated season for viewership.

I wouldn't say they are churlish, it's more that there just aren't a lot of Ducks fans. The die hard fans are there but the team has, unfortunately, not been able to build upon those moments where they've been able to capture the attention of the passive OC sports fan. It is simply not a great market for hockey due to the Kings being so close and having a huge head start. I grew up in Orange County but I was already a Kings fan so I didn't jump ship: there are many like me. For those with no allegiances to the Kings; however, a three-year stretch like the Kings had from 2102-14 would do wonders for making OC money care about the Ducks.
This is pretty spot on.

I would add the following:

The NHL also didn't do much to try to help the team get any traction in the So Cal market either by putting marketing restrictions on the Mighty Ducks; they couldn't advertise or market in any traditional marketing way in any southern California market outside of Orange County because they were entering the Kings market. This is one of the reasons that, even before the Samuelis purchased the team, the Mighty Ducks/Ducks have tried to grow hockey at the grass roots level. It might take another generation or so, but hopefully the Ducks/Samueli's investment in grass roots hockey as well as in the OC community will begin to pay off for them.

Additionally, the NHL has not supported the Ducks in terms of giving them an All Star Game or NHL draft. Gary Bettman has the NHL has awarded the NHL ASG to young franchises or non-traditional markets (Nashville, Columbus, Carolina, Atlanta) as way to generate interest in hockey, and yet other than Winnipeg and Phoenix/Arizona, Anaheim is the only team that has never hosted an ASG.

Disney also made the mistake of treating the team like any of their entertainment division rather than like a professional sports franchise and that business model didn't work once the novelty of the Mighty Ducks wore off and the merchandising revenue dried up. The Mighty Ducks had two of the most exciting players in hockey, a good goaltender and some other solid pieces, but Disney failed to build on that by acquiring additional players and/or drafting well. Disney also didn't invest in the team's hockey operations including their scouts (they only had like three or four full-time scouts), training facilities, video analysis. etc. because the Mighty Ducks as an entertainment division wasn't profitable. Instead of investing in the team to create a good on-ice product, Disney just kept raising the prices while the team struggled and were a perennial non-playoff team and people eventually lost interest in the team.

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03-14-2017, 02:46 AM
  #71
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One has to look at west coast local ratings with a grain of salt because of the time zone difference.

Having many games air at 4 PM on weekdays is not going to attract a lot of eyeballs. The Ducks are further hampered that the local Anaheim newspaper is on life support ( OC Register) after an ill fated expansion into Los Angeles.

What saves the Ducks at the gate is their are enough transplanted hockey fans in SoCal that will buy tickets to see the team they grew up with. It does become embarrsing when a home game with the Kings can be close to a 50-50 split. It really is the same situation that we see in Newark.

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03-14-2017, 06:46 AM
  #72
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Not surprising. The team never makes money
Luckily, making money isn't important for sports.

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03-14-2017, 11:46 AM
  #73
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One has to look at west coast local ratings with a grain of salt because of the time zone difference.

Having many games air at 4 PM on weekdays is not going to attract a lot of eyeballs. The Ducks are further hampered that the local Anaheim newspaper is on life support ( OC Register) after an ill fated expansion into Los Angeles.

What saves the Ducks at the gate is their are enough transplanted hockey fans in SoCal that will buy tickets to see the team they grew up with. It does become embarrsing when a home game with the Kings can be close to a 50-50 split. It really is the same situation that we see in Newark.
Is it really that embarrasing for a team 20 miles away thats is 30 years older to have a significant portion of fans at an away game?

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03-14-2017, 12:35 PM
  #74
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Luckily, making money isn't important for sports.
I disagree.


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03-14-2017, 11:57 PM
  #75
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Is it really that embarrasing for a team 20 miles away thats is 30 years older to have a significant portion of fans at an away game?
Good friend of mine is a Kings STH and he lives in Irvine which is adjacent to Anaheim. To him the Ducks might as well be in Anchorage.

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