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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Phillips Arena renovations

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Old
06-28-2017, 05:55 PM
  #76
gordie
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Courtside bar

Really hating more and more modern sports arena's
You want to scream!!! Just being at the game just isn't good enough anymore.

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06-28-2017, 10:31 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins1233 View Post
Philips Arena is 1 MARTA (Heavy Rail) stop from the Center nexus of all Public Transit in Atlanta, and is in Downtown, where exactly is better than that?
The problem is, the majority of hockey fans are located in the northern suburbs of the city. I know of quite a few who are in the southern suburbs too (much like myself), but the thought process is that any team that comes to Atlanta would simply draw more fans regularly if the arena were located in the northern suburbs.

MARTA is decent, but not entirely reliable. Folks won't really take MARTA unless they absolutely have to. Traffic is poor at best, and difficult to navigate for even long time residents of the city. Generally speaking, a downtown location is the most ideal location. However, that's not quite true for Atlanta. The Braves also moved to the northern suburbs due in part to the lack of convenience for fans to get downtown.

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06-29-2017, 07:32 PM
  #78
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if Cobb County decides to build an arena of its own, there's no doubt the NHL will be interested. As for preserving the Eastern Conference's alignment by expanding in the East,


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06-30-2017, 11:41 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by dj4aces View Post
The problem is, the majority of hockey fans are located in the northern suburbs of the city. I know of quite a few who are in the southern suburbs too (much like myself), but the thought process is that any team that comes to Atlanta would simply draw more fans regularly if the arena were located in the northern suburbs.

MARTA is decent, but not entirely reliable. Folks won't really take MARTA unless they absolutely have to. Traffic is poor at best, and difficult to navigate for even long time residents of the city. Generally speaking, a downtown location is the most ideal location. However, that's not quite true for Atlanta. The Braves also moved to the northern suburbs due in part to the lack of convenience for fans to get downtown.

The Braves move was a back room deal involving politicians and developers and was done solely in the interest of making those people a bunch of money. Season Ticket holders didn't even know it was happening until it was announced a week after the November Mayoral election(what a coincidence)in spite of the fact that it was a done deal by July.

This whole story about the arena location given as a reason for the Thrasher's failure is mythology. Falcons fans didn't seem to have any problem getting to the Dome last year did they?

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06-30-2017, 04:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
This whole story about the arena location given as a reason for the Thrasher's failure is mythology. Falcons fans didn't seem to have any problem getting to the Dome last year did they?
When the same thing is cited in the Coyotes' struggles, the escape is "people don't mind going there for eight weekends"

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06-30-2017, 04:26 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Elephant Igloo View Post
When the same thing is cited in the Coyotes' struggles, the escape is "people don't mind going there for eight weekends"
8 weekends != 41 nights including weekdays

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06-30-2017, 04:45 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Igloo View Post
When the same thing is cited in the Coyotes' struggles, the escape is "people don't mind going there for eight weekends"
UH, False, they brought in the Gladiators up from Gwinnett as a marketing angle, team rebranded as ATLANTA Gladiators AFTER the transfer back to WPG, by the Thrashers, EI.

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06-30-2017, 05:22 PM
  #83
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Is the Atlanta Spirit Group still managing the Hawks? They sure dropped the ball when it came to the Thrashers.

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06-30-2017, 07:18 PM
  #84
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Sure enough, now, today, past couple of years or so but but not for the first decade of their existence. Close call in fact that they didnt completely bottom out, be forced to move. Total mess. How you screw up hockey in Ohio (like Minnesota) I have no idea but find a way they did. Doug MacLean, GM (now a sportscaster with SN out of Toronto, was also reputedly hired as a Consultant to Hamilton NHL interests) from 98/07 total disaster along the lines of Don Waddell in Atlanta. The Blue Jackets with a lousy Lease & a competitive facility nearby that wasnt supposed to be competing with them for concerts & events etc. Total nightmare.
Lease? The Jackets owned the building up until a few years ago.

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06-30-2017, 07:21 PM
  #85
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Lease? The Jackets owned the building up until a few years ago.
I thought the insurance company owned the place and then turned it into a public-private thing a few years ago?

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06-30-2017, 09:12 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
Is the Atlanta Spirit Group still managing the Hawks? They sure dropped the ball when it came to the Thrashers.
no, different ownership, Tony Ressler et all back in 2015 bought it

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06-30-2017, 09:20 PM
  #87
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Atlanta Braves attendance is back to about where it was before they announced their move. It isn't like the crowds beat down the gates to get to the new stadium. This whole idea that moving to the northern suburbs is the secret to success is yet to be proven out.

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07-02-2017, 09:50 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
UH, False, they brought in the Gladiators up from Gwinnett as a marketing angle, team rebranded as ATLANTA Gladiators AFTER the transfer back to WPG, by the Thrashers, EI.
UHHHH, your response has nothing to do with what I said.

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07-03-2017, 09:11 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant Igloo View Post
UHHHH, your response has nothing to do with what I said.
uh, yes it does, because it's tied in with the Braves discussion, EI....

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07-03-2017, 10:54 AM
  #90
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Okay, let's try again. Bongo said that the central location of Philips Arena as the cause of the Thrashers' failure is a myth, because the central location of the Georgia Dome hasn't hurt the Falcons. Then I pointed out that that's interesting considering the consensus of this board regarding a similar situation in Phoenix: the Glendale Arena's western location dooms the Coyotes while the location of UofP Stadium next door is immaterial to the Cardinals. Then you ran in and said something about the Gwinnett Gladiators, who don't play in downtown Atlanta nor northwestern Cobb County and thus don't really have much to do with the discussion I was having as best I can tell.

For whatever it's worth, I don't buy the location of Philips Arena as a major reason for the Thrashers' downfall. Put the arena with the same ownership situation and scheduling dilemmas (are concerts more lucrative in this market than a hockey team?) and the same thing will happen.

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07-03-2017, 11:14 AM
  #91
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The Thrashers failed chiefly because the boss was a crook. Basically seeing the hockey team as a looting opportunity and as a piggyback for his own personal expenses.

That said, the NHL would/could/should jump back in to the Atlanta market if a suitable arena were built in a more convenient area. People talk about Houston as a huge, potentially lucrative market. Do they realize Atlanta is very similar?

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07-03-2017, 11:18 AM
  #92
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Atlanta is not without its drawbacks as a market due to the large number of transplants. The Braves can thrive as a regional team, but a hockey team wouldn't be regional, at least not in the Southeastern United States.

Obviously, I think the most important thing for the league to do is to give itself a low-ceiling-high-floor market in Quebec City to hedge against its riskier markets, but the league has no interest in being in Quebec City. If Cobb County started building an arena next door to SunTrust Park, the league would be knocking at the door before the door even came up, and they'd tell the Blue Jackets to get used to flying to Winnipeg.

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07-03-2017, 12:04 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Tekneek View Post
Atlanta Braves attendance is back to about where it was before they announced their move. It isn't like the crowds beat down the gates to get to the new stadium. This whole idea that moving to the northern suburbs is the secret to success is yet to be proven out.
Competent management is the secret to success. the only reason I go to Suntrust right now is because the park and the battery are awesome. If I could add "watching a competitive team" to that list, I'll be there more often. It's definitely a lot easier for me to get to than it was at Turner.

But it wouldn't matter where they put a new hockey team if they also didn't win a single playoff game for 15 years. They have to be competitive, and the fans will come. If Nashville can support a team, Atlanta can.

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07-03-2017, 01:27 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Elephant Igloo View Post
Atlanta is not without its drawbacks as a market due to the large number of transplants. The Braves can thrive as a regional team, but a hockey team wouldn't be regional, at least not in the Southeastern United States.

Obviously, I think the most important thing for the league to do is to give itself a low-ceiling-high-floor market in Quebec City to hedge against its riskier markets, but the league has no interest in being in Quebec City. If Cobb County started building an arena next door to SunTrust Park, the league would be knocking at the door before the door even came up, and they'd tell the Blue Jackets to get used to flying to Winnipeg.
If there was one team in the area it would be. This is where Carolina fails.

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07-03-2017, 01:35 PM
  #95
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Yeah, but Atlanta is the most important city in the South. Raleigh isn't even the most important city in its state. Nashville can't really be the entire South's team either.

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07-03-2017, 10:06 PM
  #96
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Part of the problem was that Atlanta Spirit had so much infighting that the hockey product was ignored. Now that Ressler owns the team, he has no connection to hockey and is changing Phillips Arena to be more viable to basketball at the expense of hockey. As for the now-Georgia State Stadium, the Braves' real reason for wanting to leave was crime in the area (Georgia State is basically remaking the area as part of its campus). Had Georgia State not bought that stadium, I suspect it would have seen the wrecking ball.

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07-03-2017, 10:20 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
The Braves move was a back room deal involving politicians and developers and was done solely in the interest of making those people a bunch of money. Season Ticket holders didn't even know it was happening until it was announced a week after the November Mayoral election(what a coincidence)in spite of the fact that it was a done deal by July.

This whole story about the arena location given as a reason for the Thrasher's failure is mythology. Falcons fans didn't seem to have any problem getting to the Dome last year did they?
The Falcons aren't comparable to the Thrashers though. The Falcons have very much a city-wide fanbase, whereas the Thrashers were much more demographically confined.

That's not to say the Thrashers failed because of arena location. I do believe that a hockey team would have a much better chance of success if it was located further north than Phillips, but the biggest reasons for the Thrashers' failure were ownership and on-ice success.

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07-05-2017, 01:29 PM
  #98
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As if the NHL was ever going to allow another team in Atlanta, I would say to put it in the North East OTP. Between 400 and 85 might be a good enough spot to 1) find some land with enough areas of interest nearby, and 2) close enough for most of the fans to make it to for the weeknight games @ 7pm.

Traffic is always going to be bad in Atlanta. Making folks head ITP for 7pm weeknight games would just be plain stupid.

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07-06-2017, 08:55 AM
  #99
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There's only one reason why the Thrashers failed. The Atlanta Spirit Group. Now please, no more talk about the NHL returning to Atlanta. Twice burned is enough. Give me an AHL team and I'll be happy.

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07-06-2017, 11:56 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
There's only one reason why the Thrashers failed. The Atlanta Spirit Group. Now please, no more talk about the NHL returning to Atlanta. Twice burned is enough. Give me an AHL team and I'll be happy.
AHL needs what, Bongo, an NHL Affiliation, as a pre-requisite, the days of an Independent died out when Worcester originally joined the league and the experiences of Baltimore and Binghamton trying that led to them being absolutely disasterous on-ice wise by the time the season ended, the AHL outlawed that practice, and changed the bylaw requiring an affiliation to be active.

Atlanta's ECHL Club is in serious jeopardy if Boston elects to leave at the end of this season, now with Spectra buying Alaska, and placing it in Portland.

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