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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Are the Kings done?

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Old
02-24-2017, 11:24 AM
  #26
Sleepy
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Not sure. But if they miss the playoffs again, I think you can rule out of the "great team" conversation, as they fall to the bottom of two-cup teams. Years from now, people will look back and say "THAT team won two cups? wtf?".

Which is weird to say when a team has two cups, but kinda true. Comparing them to other two-cup teams like the 90s Pens, 20-2010s Pens, 90s/01 Avs, 00s Devils, 00s Wings, and 90s Wings they pale in comparison. Which is not what I would have thought 3 years ago when I assumed Doughty/Kopitar's high level postseason play would continue in future regular/postseasons.

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02-24-2017, 11:29 AM
  #27
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Quick is coming back soon isn't he? That should help them.

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02-24-2017, 11:30 AM
  #28
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100% done

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02-24-2017, 11:30 AM
  #29
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Darryl Sutter and his expired system have to go

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02-24-2017, 11:32 AM
  #30
Bandit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Not sure. But if they miss the playoffs again, I think you can rule out of the "great team" conversation, as they fall to the bottom of two-cup teams. Years from now, people will look back and say "THAT team won two cups? wtf?".

Which is weird to say when a team has two cups, but kinda true. Comparing them to other two-cup teams like the 90s Pens, 20-2010s Pens, 90s/01 Avs, 00s Devils, 00s Wings, and 90s Wings they pale in comparison. Which is not what I would have thought 3 years ago when I assumed Doughty/Kopitar's high level postseason play would continue in future regular/postseasons.
The 2012 and 2014 LA Kings teams were fantastic playoff teams, but whatever helps you sleep at night up there in San Jose I guess.

And no, the Kings aren't making the playoffs this year.

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02-24-2017, 11:37 AM
  #31
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Totally. I can't stand to watch them anymore.

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02-24-2017, 12:24 PM
  #32
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The Flames are totally capable of crapping the bed this year. They have been wildly inconsistent.

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02-24-2017, 12:37 PM
  #33
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If this team gets rid of Sutter, then I could see them turning around.

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02-24-2017, 12:38 PM
  #34
tony d
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With the Kings you never count them out unless they're actually eliminated. Given the games they still have vs. Calgary I think they should be fine.

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02-24-2017, 12:41 PM
  #35
Man Bear Pig
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
With the Kings you never count them out unless they're actually eliminated. Given the games they still have vs. Calgary I think they should be fine.
This isn't the same kings team that won the cup after finishing 8th.

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02-24-2017, 12:41 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by THall4 View Post
Quick is coming back soon isn't he? That should help them.
Budaj is probably playing at the same level Quick would anyways. I doubt he'd make any difference TBH.

I think the Kings need to gather young assets and re-tool. Lombardi made some bad decisions by trading too many 1st round picks away (Sekera and Lucic ) and it's caught up to him. Other off-ice issues with players didn't help either.

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02-24-2017, 12:45 PM
  #37
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There was a short period of time when a mixture of size and grinding ability ruled in the NHL. That was the Kings' window. Speed and skill are back (thankfully) and that's why teams like the Penguins, Blackhawks and Lightning (bad year notwithstanding) are built to win.

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02-24-2017, 12:46 PM
  #38
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Those 4 games against Calgary will determine their fate. If they win 3 of 4 then they have a shot. Otherwise I think they're toast.

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02-24-2017, 12:50 PM
  #39
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It's been Murphy's Law this season in Los Angeles.

Offense can't score to bail out the goalie.

Defense can't take chances to bail out the offense because of the goalie.

Goalie can't make a single big save to bail out the defense or offense.

When those three things are happening, you basically have to play 60 minutes of mistake-free hockey which is impossible to do. Team has zero confidence and this is a group that thrives on swagger. They all look defeated, deflated and all in all, waiting for this nightmare season to be over.

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02-24-2017, 12:51 PM
  #40
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Technically they may still appear to be in playoff contention, but mentally they've checked out.

This team just hasn't been the same since 2015. The off-ice incidents involving Voynov, Stoll and Richards really just snowballed into a gigantic mess that this team has been unable to recover from.

Fitting that they won their last Cup on Friday the 13th in 2014. The team is now older and in cap hell. Lombardi thought he could sustain a championship team by bringing everyone back, and boy was he wrong in that regard. Some ill advised desperation moves in acquiring the likes of Sekera and Lucic have also set this team back by a few years. It'll be a while until they recover.

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02-24-2017, 12:53 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Woodcroft View Post
Budaj is probably playing at the same level Quick would anyways. I doubt he'd make any difference TBH.

I think the Kings need to gather young assets and re-tool. Lombardi made some bad decisions by trading too many 1st round picks away (Sekera and Lucic ) and it's caught up to him. Other off-ice issues with players didn't help either.
Oh please, Budaj can't make an important save to keep his team in the game. If defense and forwards mess up, there's no one to bail them out. It was nice while it lasted, but he's letting in softies each game. He's not a number one goalie.

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02-24-2017, 12:54 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
The 2012 and 2014 LA Kings teams were fantastic playoff teams, but whatever helps you sleep at night up there in San Jose I guess.

And no, the Kings aren't making the playoffs this year.
I don't think he's implying the Kings weren't worthy of the Cup in those seasons. If he is I disagree.

But I do think it's fair to say that by comparison to the other 2x Cup winning teams he listed, the Kings' squads pale in comparison.

But hey, I'd happily take on the title of "weakest 2x Cup winning team" Hell, I'd be happy with "weakest Cup winning team" period.

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02-24-2017, 12:56 PM
  #43
Butch 19
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Those 4 games against Calgary will determine their fate. If they win 3 of 4 then they have a shot. Otherwise I think they're toast.
right now, they go into every game as a big underdog.

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02-24-2017, 12:56 PM
  #44
Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Not sure. But if they miss the playoffs again, I think you can rule out of the "great team" conversation, as they fall to the bottom of two-cup teams. Years from now, people will look back and say "THAT team won two cups? wtf?".

Which is weird to say when a team has two cups, but kinda true. Comparing them to other two-cup teams like the 90s Pens, 20-2010s Pens, 90s/01 Avs, 00s Devils, 00s Wings, and 90s Wings they pale in comparison. Which is not what I would have thought 3 years ago when I assumed Doughty/Kopitar's high level postseason play would continue in future regular/postseasons.
Did any of those teams come back from an 0-3 series deficit and win three consecutive Game 7s on the road?

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02-24-2017, 12:57 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombers15 View Post
Those 4 games against Calgary will determine their fate. If they win 3 of 4 then they have a shot. Otherwise I think they're toast.
Any chance that the Flames have 4 road games in Anaheim left?
That is probably the other thing that would help the Kings sneak in.

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02-24-2017, 01:02 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Jay Woodcroft View Post
Budaj is probably playing at the same level Quick would anyways. I doubt he'd make any difference TBH.
Not. Even. Remotely. Close.

Budaj has been the reason for struggles many nights. There's a reason we're often chasing the game. Headbutting the puck into his own net, goals scored from the goal line....

Stat watching is getting people in trouble all year with Budaj.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Not sure. But if they miss the playoffs again, I think you can rule out of the "great team" conversation, as they fall to the bottom of two-cup teams. Years from now, people will look back and say "THAT team won two cups? wtf?".

Which is weird to say when a team has two cups, but kinda true. Comparing them to other two-cup teams like the 90s Pens, 20-2010s Pens, 90s/01 Avs, 00s Devils, 00s Wings, and 90s Wings they pale in comparison. Which is not what I would have thought 3 years ago when I assumed Doughty/Kopitar's high level postseason play would continue in future regular/postseasons.
okay, I'll take that. Sure beats being near the top of the 'no Cup' list like some other teams.

The Kings were the only thing that stopped the Hawks dynasty from happening, with how remarkable everyone thinks Chicago is and has been, I don't think you can turf the Kings' past based on how nightmarish things have been since (Voynov, Quick missing entire year, etc.).

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02-24-2017, 01:06 PM
  #47
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okay, I'll take that. Sure beats being near the top of the 'no Cup' list like some other teams.

The Kings were the only thing that stopped the Hawks dynasty from happening, with how remarkable everyone thinks Chicago is and has been, I don't think you can turf the Kings' past based on how nightmarish things have been since (Voynov, Quick missing entire year, etc.).
Yep. Being the least impressive "2x SC winning team" is like being the least attractive person in a room full of super models. Either way you're doing pretty darn well for yourself, and any critique is just nit-picking. And yes, I'd surely take that over being "best team for a decade to not have a cup"

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02-24-2017, 01:09 PM
  #48
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This is what happens when you award too many high priced contracts after a cup win. The Hawks swallowed their pride and got rid of Byfuglien, Campbell, and Bolland even though they were instrumental in their cup run. The salary cap makes you gut your roster temporarily but if you trade for decent prospects and depth, you can stay relevant and maybe with luck win again.

The key prediciting which players will have the earlier decline and get rid of those players while their value is still high. The Hawks did it well, the Kings did not.

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02-24-2017, 01:15 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Sleepy View Post
Not sure. But if they miss the playoffs again, I think you can rule out of the "great team" conversation, as they fall to the bottom of two-cup teams. Years from now, people will look back and say "THAT team won two cups? wtf?".

Which is weird to say when a team has two cups, but kinda true. Comparing them to other two-cup teams like the 90s Pens, 20-2010s Pens, 90s/01 Avs, 00s Devils, 00s Wings, and 90s Wings they pale in comparison. Which is not what I would have thought 3 years ago when I assumed Doughty/Kopitar's high level postseason play would continue in future regular/postseasons.
So most the team examples you gave were pre-cap.. Not sure if you are doing an apples to apples comparison here. Your options now vs then, are just a tad more limited due to limits on spending

Hawks are amazing doing what they are doing.

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Old
02-24-2017, 01:20 PM
  #50
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This is what happens when you award too many high priced contracts after a cup win. The Hawks swallowed their pride and got rid of Byfuglien, Campbell, and Bolland even though they were instrumental in their cup run. The salary cap makes you gut your roster temporarily but if you trade for decent prospects and depth, you can stay relevant and maybe with luck win again.

The key prediciting which players will have the earlier decline and get rid of those players while their value is still high. The Hawks did it well, the Kings did not.
The Hawks lost Buff et. al. in the first place because Tallon doesn't know how to work a ****ing fax machine, it wasn't genius foresight, it was quite the opposite.

Full marks for everything done since then obviously.

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