HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

UPDATE 4/12 - Barclays Center pitch would return Islanders to Nassau Coliseum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-25-2017, 08:53 AM
  #51
Isles72
Registered User
 
Isles72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,308
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
IIRC that vacating MSG was resolved. The agreed to give up the adjoining theater.
every once in awhile I wonder about this topic (penn / msg situation) that I read about a few years ago .

nobody seems to make a big deal about it so I figured it was dead.

Isles72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2017, 09:09 AM
  #52
Bruins1233
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles72 View Post
every once in awhile I wonder about this topic (penn / msg situation) that I read about a few years ago .

nobody seems to make a big deal about it so I figured it was dead.
Didn't Cuomo make a big hoopla about Renovating Penn Station. I saw renderings with a glass roof which would mean MSG isn't on top of it anymore (as if the fact the platforms are made for 1/6th the traffic they get is the actual issue)

Bruins1233 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2017, 09:12 AM
  #53
nyscene
Registered User
 
nyscene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: PANIC!
Posts: 3,693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins1233 View Post
Didn't Cuomo make a big hoopla about Renovating Penn Station. I saw renderings with a glass roof which would mean MSG isn't on top of it anymore (as if the fact the platforms are made for 1/6th the traffic they get is the actual issue)
They are moving the entrance to Penn Station across the street. That is what is going to have the open feeling.

MSG is going nowhere.

nyscene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2017, 11:02 AM
  #54
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 67,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
I have to assume Dolan has an option on land somewhere west of MSG just in case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqib View Post
IIRC that vacating MSG was resolved. The agreed to give up the adjoining theater.
And I thought that all that was decided was another 10 year lease (of "air space" above station).

AFAIK, there is no "option" of land anywhere in Manhattan for a new MSG-type facility. (You'd have to tear down existing buildings.)



Thinking this through, being able to design from the ground up would mean they can design in two sets of NHL dressing rooms and one set of NBA dressing rooms. Even if they only "fully furnish" one NHL set (for home/visitor) for the Islanders, allocating the space for those future NHL and NBA rooms would eliminate headaches if they have to vacate MSG in the future. (Now, perhaps there will be another use for those room/space "now", but they could be reallocated in the future.)

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2017, 02:33 PM
  #55
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 18,297
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
And I thought that all that was decided was another 10 year lease (of "air space" above station).

AFAIK, there is no "option" of land anywhere in Manhattan for a new MSG-type facility. (You'd have to tear down existing buildings.)



Thinking this through, being able to design from the ground up would mean they can design in two sets of NHL dressing rooms and one set of NBA dressing rooms. Even if they only "fully furnish" one NHL set (for home/visitor) for the Islanders, allocating the space for those future NHL and NBA rooms would eliminate headaches if they have to vacate MSG in the future. (Now, perhaps there will be another use for those room/space "now", but they could be reallocated in the future.)
There is no lease. The building and the air rights are owned by Dolan. What the city did was extend their operating permit, which allows them to hold events of more than 2500 people (someone check me on that number), for 10 years. You know what's going to happen when that's near expiration? It'll go another 10 years.

Your second sentence there is exactly the reason why. If the city kicked them out for eminent domain, they'd have to find a spot for them to go of equal value. That basically doesn't exist, so they aren't going anywhere.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2017, 08:53 PM
  #56
NYI JT91
Jesus Greiss
 
NYI JT91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Suffolk
Country: United States
Posts: 3,439
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
Where theres smoke there is fire.

NYI JT91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2017, 05:13 AM
  #57
Steve55
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
The involvement of the Wilpons suggests a Citi Field arena is a dead end. Belmont is the next best thing... whatever inroads in NYC the Isles will have made by the time this arena gets built will be preserved by staying on a direct LIRR line from the city while the Long Island fanbase will like being able to drive to games easily.

One of the Isles owners is hugely invested in luxury outlet malls on the outskirts of European cities. I wouldn't be surprised if he hoped to turn Elmont into such a destination for New Yorkers, especially if the MTA is going to increase service to the area as the article states.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...say-1.13174962

Other New York City locations being considered, such as the Willets Point area adjacent to Citi Field, remain a possibility for a new Islanders arena, sources said...

Belmont Park is seen as a possibility for an Islanders arena following the state economic development agency’s decision in December to scrap proposals to redevelop the land, four years after the initial requests for proposal was issued.

Any development at Belmont will occur through the normal process of an RFP, which has not been released yet,” said Amy Varghese, spokeswoman for the Empire State Development Corp., which handles major economic development projects. “Any talk of development at this point is speculative.”


Actually, Isles (and presumably Mets) interest in the Citi Field area could be delaying NYS from opening another round of proposals at Belmont right now. Cuomo has had more than 2 months since ESD pulled the plug on the first round of RFPs.

Steve55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2017, 02:54 PM
  #58
tony d
Ocean Spray
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 58,188
vCash: 500
Interesting, I ? the Rangers being involved here but other than that anything that can keep the Islanders in New York State is good news.

__________________
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 11:21 AM
  #59
Ziggyjoe21
Registered User
 
Ziggyjoe21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pitt
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 8,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Ziggyjoe21
Why does NYC need 3 teams? Devils and Isles have a hard time attracting fans as it is.

Ziggyjoe21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 12:22 PM
  #60
Bones45
Prince is a Redneck
 
Bones45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 9,440
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Why does NYC need 3 teams? Devils and Isles have a hard time attracting fans as it is.
They dont.

Bones45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 12:30 PM
  #61
klabob
Registered User
 
klabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones45 View Post
They dont.
Don't need 3 teams or don't have attendance problems?

klabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 12:48 PM
  #62
Steve55
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Why does NYC need 3 teams? Devils and Isles have a hard time attracting fans as it is.
There's only 2 teams in NYC, Isles (Brooklyn) and Rangers (Manhattan)

Steve55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 12:54 PM
  #63
klabob
Registered User
 
klabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve55 View Post
There's only 2 teams in NYC, Isles (Brooklyn) and Rangers (Manhattan)
Then: Why does NYC&NJ need 3 teams? Devils and Isles have a hard time attracting fans as it is.

klabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 02:46 PM
  #64
Colin226
NJ Devils STH
 
Colin226's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Flemington, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by klabob View Post
Then: Why does NYC&NJ need 3 teams? Devils and Isles have a hard time attracting fans as it is.
They're very high revenue teams that don't really struggle to draw when they are really good teams. Plus those 2 teams make live hockey more accessible to the region. Why would the NHL get rid of that? It's not like the 2 teams compete much for fans.

Colin226 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 06:05 PM
  #65
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin226 View Post
They're very high revenue teams that don't really struggle to draw when they are really good teams. Plus those 2 teams make live hockey more accessible to the region. Why would the NHL get rid of that? It's not like the 2 teams compete much for fans.
Key is when they are good, not all the time. The NYC area has the most developed train system in North America, why would hockey need to be made "more accessible" I don't think having 3 teams has increased the number of fans. Don't understand this line of thinking.

Melrose Munch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 06:12 PM
  #66
DowntownBooster
Registered User
 
DowntownBooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
Why does NYC need 3 teams?
The population base in the area is huge. 3 teams can easily be supported.

DowntownBooster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2017, 07:03 PM
  #67
Glacial
Registered User
 
Glacial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownBooster View Post
The population base in the area is huge. 3 teams can easily be supported.
New York is the 2nd largest metro area on the continent (Mexico City is the largest). Toronto, as big as it is, ranks only 7th (LA, Chicago, Dallas, Houston are larger than it). NY metro is about 150% the population of the 3rd largest, Los Angeles. It's more than large enough for 3 teams, especially with some on geographic arms of the metro (New Jersey, Long Island). I'm guessing people don't realize how populous New York metro is.

Glacial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2017, 08:27 AM
  #68
klabob
Registered User
 
klabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
New York is the 2nd largest metro area on the continent (Mexico City is the largest). Toronto, as big as it is, ranks only 7th (LA, Chicago, Dallas, Houston are larger than it). NY metro is about 150% the population of the 3rd largest, Los Angeles. It's more than large enough for 3 teams, especially with some on geographic arms of the metro (New Jersey, Long Island). I'm guessing people don't realize how populous New York metro is.
People do realize how populous it is. They also realize that the Devils broke 17k attendance twice since 1982. They also realise that the Islanders broke 14k attendance four times since 1987.

klabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2017, 10:03 AM
  #69
USAUSA1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by klabob View Post
People do realize how populous it is. They also realize that the Devils broke 17k attendance twice since 1982. They also realise that the Islanders broke 14k attendance four times since 1987.
Not true at all

USAUSA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2017, 11:35 AM
  #70
klabob
Registered User
 
klabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAUSA1 View Post
Not true at all
http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=7066

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=7085

Most definitely true.

klabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2017, 12:24 PM
  #71
USAUSA1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
Oh ok the average attendance.

USAUSA1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2017, 06:59 PM
  #72
Steve55
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,889
vCash: 500
Perhaps Belmont has some serious red tape as well.

https://twitter.com/randimarshall/st...56346113601541

There are details w NY Racing Assoc (which wants to be reprivatized) to work out. There are more puzzle pieces than just Islanders.

https://twitter.com/randimarshall/st...57369771245568

Sure. I expect more clarity and a timetable for the RFP after the budget negotiations are done.

https://twitter.com/randimarshall/st...70068294922241

Any development at Belmont would require an RFP, including an arena.

Steve55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2017, 07:07 PM
  #73
Deathstroke
Hey kid!
 
Deathstroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 21,974
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by klabob View Post
People do realize how populous it is. They also realize that the Devils broke 17k attendance twice since 1982. They also realise that the Islanders broke 14k attendance four times since 1987.
The Devils can't break 17,000 attendance anymore. They have a seating capacity of 16,514, and they've actually averaged over 90% capacity every year since 2013.

Deathstroke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2017, 07:32 PM
  #74
Deathstroke
Hey kid!
 
Deathstroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 21,974
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by klabob View Post
People do realize how populous it is. They also realize that the Devils broke 17k attendance twice since 1982. They also realise that the Islanders broke 14k attendance four times since 1987.
Here's the Devils attendance since they moved to the Prudential Center.

07-08: 15,564 out of 17,625 (88%)
08-09: 15,790 out of 17,625 (90%)
09-10: 15,535 out of 17,625 (88%)
10-11: 14,775 out of 17,625 (84%)
11-12: 15,397 out of 17,625 (87%)
12-13: 17,114 out of 17,625 (97%)
13-14: 15,012 out of 16,592 (90%)*
14-15: 15,190 out of 16,592 (92%)
15-16: 15,074 out of 16,514 (91%)
16-17: 14,588 out of 16,514 (88%)**

*not including Stadium Series Game
**season in progress

Deathstroke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2017, 07:24 AM
  #75
klabob
Registered User
 
klabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathstroke View Post
The Devils can't break 17,000 attendance anymore. They have a seating capacity of 16,514, and they've actually averaged over 90% capacity every year since 2013.
Thanks, did not know that.

klabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.