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What's next for Jets Goaltending?

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Old
03-20-2017, 10:47 PM
  #176
Jets4Life
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post

I would be all over signing Scott Darling. Sure he has played for Chi, but his save % have been 0.936, 0.915, 0.931. And I don't care that he's 28. If Helly is the so called future you only need a couple of years out of Darling. Or you find out Darling is better than any goalie you have and you keep him for longer.
[I]The best thing about Darling, is that he would have started his NHL career around 2010, if he had managed to conquer his alcohol addiction earlier in his career. He has come a long way since he was cut from the worst team in the SPHL, when he was in the problem. Good work, Scott.

The Hockey News article from 2014 about Darling:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...ark-on-the-nhl

In order to deal with social anxiety, Scott Darling self-medicated with alcohol. It almost cost him his career. With his demons in the past, the 25-year-old is looking to prove he can be a starting goaltender in the world's best league.

Like a lot of people who turn their lives around, Scott Darling experienced a dramatic epiphany. To be sure, his decision the morning of July 1, 2011, came much more quickly than the process it took to get him where he was – which was in a bed in his uncle’s home in Boca Raton with a pounding head and a guilty conscience. Out of options and out of hockey, he was helping out at his uncle’s memorabilia company and, aside from doing arm curls with a beer bottle, hadn’t worked out in months.

Here’s how bad it was: his goaltending coach had fired him. The worst team in one of the lowest pro leagues in North America didn’t want him back. It was that morning Darling decided he had to stop drinking. More importantly, however, he had to somehow find a way to conquer a mental health issue that had plagued him since childhood. Darling had always suffered from social anxiety, and it was that disorder that caused him to medicate with his drug of choice, which was massive amounts of alcohol. “I wasn’t comfortable as a human being,” he said. “I didn’t think people liked me.”


Last edited by Jets4Life: 03-21-2017 at 12:15 AM.
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Old
03-21-2017, 05:15 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Rinne's pretty old and really expensive. I imagine the Preds would jump at that. They've got a decent prospect in Saros playing lights out too.

Rask I'd certainly take, but I don't think Boston would be interested. And he's still too rich for the Jets' blood. And he's got an NMC.
From the Bruins board, about trading Rask:

"I would call Winnipeg and ask for Hellebuyck and a swap of 1st's....."

I know his price tag is a big one but if I were Chevy I'd definitely take it.

Darling would probably be the best horse to bet on, though.

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03-21-2017, 05:55 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
[I]The best thing about Darling, is that he would have started his NHL career around 2010, if he had managed to conquer his alcohol addiction earlier in his career. He has come a long way since he was cut from the worst team in the SPHL, when he was in the problem. Good work, Scott.

The Hockey News article from 2014 about Darling:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...ark-on-the-nhl

In order to deal with social anxiety, Scott Darling self-medicated with alcohol. It almost cost him his career. With his demons in the past, the 25-year-old is looking to prove he can be a starting goaltender in the world's best league.

Like a lot of people who turn their lives around, Scott Darling experienced a dramatic epiphany. To be sure, his decision the morning of July 1, 2011, came much more quickly than the process it took to get him where he was – which was in a bed in his uncle’s home in Boca Raton with a pounding head and a guilty conscience. Out of options and out of hockey, he was helping out at his uncle’s memorabilia company and, aside from doing arm curls with a beer bottle, hadn’t worked out in months.

Here’s how bad it was: his goaltending coach had fired him. The worst team in one of the lowest pro leagues in North America didn’t want him back. It was that morning Darling decided he had to stop drinking. More importantly, however, he had to somehow find a way to conquer a mental health issue that had plagued him since childhood. Darling had always suffered from social anxiety, and it was that disorder that caused him to medicate with his drug of choice, which was massive amounts of alcohol. “I wasn’t comfortable as a human being,” he said. “I didn’t think people liked me.”
Really good find and thank you for the information. First and foremost I love hearing stories where people have been able to overcome their troubles. I am really happy for a Scott and his family.

This explains allot and if you go back and track his results since he changed his lifestyle they have been fantastic. I would love for the Jets to land him even though he has never been a bell cow high volume starter yet. I doubt he comes here but he would be the perfect guy to challenge Helle for the net.

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03-21-2017, 10:44 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
These are all the current UFAs

Miller, Ryan United States 36 VAN G UFA 6.000
Bishop, Ben United States 30 LAK G UFA 4.760
Bernier, Jonathan Canada 28 ANA G UFA 4.150
Mason, Steve Canada 29 PHI G UFA 4.100
Pavelec, Ondrej Czech Republic 29 WPG G UFA 3.900
Elliott, Brian Canada 32 CGY G UFA 2.500
Johnson, Chad Canada 31 CGY G UFA 1.700
Kuemper, Darcy Canada 27 MIN G UFA 1.550
Berra, Reto Switzerland 30 FLA G UFA 1.450
Nilsson, Anders Sweden 27 BUF G UFA 1.000
Gustavsson, Jonas Sweden 32 EDM G UFA 0.800
McElhinney, Curtis Canada 34 TOR G UFA 0.800
Enroth, Jhonas Sweden 29 ANA G UFA 0.750
Kinkaid, Keith United States 27 NJD G UFA 0.725
Leighton, Michael Canada 36 CAR G UFA 0.700
Smith, Jeremy United States 28 COL G UFA 0.675
Peters, Justin Canada 30 DAL G UFA 0.600
Hackett, Matt Canada 27 ANA G UFA 0.600
Grosenick, Troy United States 27 SJS G UFA 0.600
Budaj, Peter Slovakia 34 TBL G UFA 0.600
Darling, Scott United States 28 CHI G UFA 0.588
Condon, Mike United States 27 OTT G UFA 0.575
Johansson, Lars Sweden 29 CHI G UFA 0.575
Cannata, Joe United States 27 COL G UFA 0.575
McKenna, Mike United States 34 TBL G UFA 0.575
Great work on providing this list! Would Fleury belong to a different category, as I though he was an option?
I'm thinking this would be the basis of an interesting poll question - would you mind if I "borrowed" your work to create one?

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03-21-2017, 11:15 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Really good find and thank you for the information. First and foremost I love hearing stories where people have been able to overcome their troubles. I am really happy for a Scott and his family.

This explains allot and if you go back and track his results since he changed his lifestyle they have been fantastic. I would love for the Jets to land him even though he has never been a bell cow high volume starter yet. I doubt he comes here but he would be the perfect guy to challenge Helle for the net.
I may be critical of the Jets organization for certain things but they are first class when dealing with players that may have problems away from the rink. Rick Rypien, in spite of the end result, was welcomed into the organization with open arms, after revealing his issues to True North.

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03-21-2017, 12:07 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
Great work on providing this list! Would Fleury belong to a different category, as I though he was an option?
I'm thinking this would be the basis of an interesting poll question - would you mind if I "borrowed" your work to create one?
Can't take credit for it. I just got it off of:

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/free_agents

and put in "goal" for the filter.

My understanding about Fleury is he is at an expiry status of UFA because of his age , but still has a 4 year contract that doesn't end until 2018-19

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/marc-andre-fleury1

So maybe his name comes up in a trade? ... maybe someone else can comment on Fleury...

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03-21-2017, 12:21 PM
  #182
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Helly and his .907 isn't the answer, he seems to let in a lot of bad goals in way too many different ways that makes me question whether this guy will ever be a legit. number one.

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03-21-2017, 12:25 PM
  #183
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Before you can fix your goaltending, you need to get rid of Flaherty.

Helle looked pretty legit in the A and lights out at the Worlds and even was one of the goalies chosen to play with Team North America or whatever it was at the World Cup.

I think Helle has potential to be very good, but I see a guy who perhaps has lost what made him so good in the A and in the other places i mentioned.

I put that on Coaching. It's just no coincidence to me that the guy looks legit in the A, Dominates the Worlds and is one of 3 goalies chosen at the World Cup but then looks like crap here? I don't buy it... It's coaching.


I don't think it matters who we bring in as goalie if Flaherty is still here, he will ruin them.

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03-21-2017, 12:29 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
Before you can fix your goaltending, you need to get rid of Flaherty.

Helle looked pretty legit in the A and lights out at the Worlds and even was one of the goalies chosen to play with Team North America or whatever it was at the World Cup.

I think Helle has potential to be very good, but I see a guy who perhaps has lost what made him so good in the A and in the other places i mentioned.

I put that on Coaching. It's just no coincidence to me that the guy looks legit in the A, Dominates the Worlds and is one of 3 goalies chosen at the World Cup but then looks like crap here? I don't buy it... It's coaching.


I don't think it matters who we bring in as goalie if Flaherty is still here, he will ruin them.
I'm not sure Flaherty is helping too much right now, but I wouldn't put all of Hellebuyck's struggles on him. He's just struggling in his first full year at the highest level in the world. He needs to work through it himself as well - that said, his goalie coach should be supporting him through it. I think just saying "it's coaching" lets the player off the hook too much.

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03-21-2017, 12:32 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
I'm not sure Flaherty is helping too much right now, but I wouldn't put all of Hellebuyck's struggles on him. He's just struggling in his first full year at the highest level in the world. He needs to work through it himself as well - that said, his goalie coach should be supporting him through it. I think just saying "it's coaching" lets the player off the hook too much.

I can agree with this. I just think theres a pretty strong case to be made that Flaherty makes the goalies worse. I mean, I look at Pav, Hutch and now Helle... they all flop around like fish out of water from time to time, Helle never did that in the past, he has done it this year. Coaching definitely plays a role. I think it was Comrie who said the first thing Flaherty told him to do when he met him was to play back in his crease more... That's probably not the best advice to be giving guys.

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Old
03-21-2017, 12:58 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
I can agree with this. I just think theres a pretty strong case to be made that Flaherty makes the goalies worse. I mean, I look at Pav, Hutch and now Helle... they all flop around like fish out of water from time to time, Helle never did that in the past, he has done it this year. Coaching definitely plays a role. I think it was Comrie who said the first thing Flaherty told him to do when he met him was to play back in his crease more... That's probably not the best advice to be giving guys.
I think Helle is doing it because he's still finding some confidence. That kind of style is done by a poor goalie making up for his lack of talent, or by a goalie who's overthinking things. Or Dominik Hasek, who it worked for, but he's the only guy I know that was successful with it, I don't believe they're being taught that style.

Quote:
So maybe his name comes up in a trade? ... maybe someone else can comment on Fleury...
As for Fleury - his name comes up because Pittsburgh is in an awkward spot with the expansion draft. They want to protect Murray, but with Fleury's NMC, they are forced to protect him unless he waives. I believe Fleury's preference is to waive for a trade to a good team instead of Vegas, but his availability is strictly because he's lost the job to Murray in Pittsburgh and the upcoming expansion draft, not because he's an upcoming UFA. If he were an upcoming UFA, there would be no problem.

I was advocating to not trade for Fleury midseason, because then you have to either expose Hellebuyck, which I don't think is a good move, or expose Fleury, and risk losing the new starter you've just spent assets to acquire for nothing. You can't protect both, or the Penguins wouldn't be concerned.

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03-21-2017, 03:08 PM
  #187
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Ok I have not really weighed in on "this thread" of what I would like to see going into this offseason but here goes.

If I was saying my 2 cents to Kevin and Mark it would boil down to one primary directive:

Build your net planning for the contingency if Hellebuyck is failing. Either way our expectations are that 1a (Helle) or 1b (not in our system yet) will be able to carry the load if necessary and be ready to upgrade the backup spot if needed. You must react in season to the realities on the ground.

No dress rehearsal, this is our life

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03-21-2017, 03:21 PM
  #188
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Helle played okay last season under Flaherty (why was he sent down again?) so I doubt it is Flaherty.
He has proven time and again that he is not ready to be a starter and mightnot ever be ready. In the meantime, the Jets are losing games and not making the playoffs.
Time for Chevy to get a starter and Helle can back up until he takes the starter's role away from him.
MAF has a deal where he can submit a list of 18 teams that he can be traded to and is paid 5.75m a year for two more seasons.

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03-21-2017, 03:25 PM
  #189
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Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Flaherty has Got! To! GO!

srsly though what is with this die hard approach to this guy and huddy.... there has to be a better or at least different Goalie coach out there.

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03-21-2017, 04:30 PM
  #190
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I thought Maurice was tight with Tom Barrasso. What's he up to these days?

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03-21-2017, 05:03 PM
  #191
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Every time I think about Helly I think of C. Schneider. The one vivid memory I have of Moose 1.0 was how the Canucks kept Scheider in the A for three seasons when most felt he was good enough to be in the NHL. Having Bobby Loo made this possible. IMO...that's how we should be developing our franchise goalie. But because of Pav's struggles/contract (he aint no Bobby Loo), that no longer became an option for the Jets and we had to rush Helly.

I think Helly can still be the long term answer. But I wish we could find a way for him to get up to 136 AHL starts like Schneider did (I don't think his year and a half in the A was enough). Maybe he can split time with MAF/Bernier/Elliott/Bishop/some other vet. But it's way too much pressure to 23 year old to be the full-time starter. And who knows...maybe Comrie can get a couple more years with the Moose in and become our Schneider. But my money is on Helly. With a bit more seasoning, I think he can still be our guy.

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03-21-2017, 05:08 PM
  #192
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I'd be happy to get Condon but is Ottawa planning or re-signing him?

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03-21-2017, 05:11 PM
  #193
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I'm not really sure why so many project Helly to eventually be a legit solid NHL starter. I'm not saying it's impossible, but what I've seen so far does not inspire great confidence

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03-21-2017, 05:20 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by DougieSmail View Post
I'm not really sure why so many project Helly to eventually be a legit solid NHL starter. I'm not saying it's impossible, but what I've seen so far does not inspire great confidence
He was above average in every other league he's played in. And guys can still shoot the puck even in the AHL and College. He was a .918 last year in 26 NHL games. He's big. He's positionally sound (or was, anyway). The tools are all there...he just needs to get back on track.

Edit: But I know what you mean about his play this year - he's let in some bad, backbreaking goals.

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03-21-2017, 05:21 PM
  #195
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I'm not really sure why so many project Helly to eventually be a legit solid NHL starter. I'm not saying it's impossible, but what I've seen so far does not inspire great confidence
People believe in him because up to this year he had put up excellent numbers year in year out.

He was over a .920 save percentage each of his 2 years on the farm. Posted a .918 his stint in the NHL last year.

Prior to that he was a .950 and a .940 in college hockey.

This is the first year in his last 5 years where he's put up sub par numbers.

The NHL is a different animal but the talent and pedigree is clearly there. The consistiency at the NHL level is clearly not where it needs to be yet.

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03-21-2017, 05:25 PM
  #196
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He was above average in every other league he's played in. And guys can still shoot the puck even in the AHL and College. He was a .918 last year in 26 NHL games. He's big. He's positionally sound (or was, anyway). The tools are all there...he just needs to get back on track.

Edit: But I know what you mean about his play this year - he's let in some bad, backbreaking goals.
He was good for parts of last season (he was starting to stink before he was sent down) and again this season, there is no consistency, because he looked good in the AHL and College means squat. Some of the tools are there and the size is there he has his weaknesses and he is still prone to giving up a lot of bad goals, the jury is out on him until he proves otherwise!

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03-21-2017, 05:28 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
Before you can fix your goaltending, you need to get rid of Flaherty.

Helle looked pretty legit in the A and lights out at the Worlds and even was one of the goalies chosen to play with Team North America or whatever it was at the World Cup.

I think Helle has potential to be very good, but I see a guy who perhaps has lost what made him so good in the A and in the other places i mentioned.

I put that on Coaching. It's just no coincidence to me that the guy looks legit in the A, Dominates the Worlds and is one of 3 goalies chosen at the World Cup but then looks like crap here? I don't buy it... It's coaching.


I don't think it matters who we bring in as goalie if Flaherty is still here, he will ruin them.
Precisely. Helle's fine; Flaherty is NOT. How many more goalies will he be allowed to ruin before this backwards org realizes that loyalty isn't everything

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03-21-2017, 05:31 PM
  #198
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He was good for parts of last season (he was starting to stink before he was sent down) and again this season, there is no consistency, because he looked good in the AHL and College means squat. Some of the tools are there and the size is there he has his weaknesses and he is still prone to giving up a lot of bad goals, the jury is out on him until he proves otherwise!
Oh, I'm not making any guarantees - I was just talking about why lots of people think he projects to be a decent starter.

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03-21-2017, 06:02 PM
  #199
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There's never any guarantees but Helle is a legit top 3 goalie prospect in the league, or at least was until he played too many NHL games. What made me extra pumped about him was his play at the WHC in 2015:

Year Team Event Result GP W L T MIN GA SO GAA SV%
2015 United States WC 3rd, bronze 8 7 1 0 482 11 2 1.37 .948

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03-21-2017, 06:30 PM
  #200
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Before you can fix your goaltending, you need to get rid of Flaherty.

... It's just no coincidence to me that the guy looks legit in the A, Dominates the Worlds and is one of 3 goalies chosen at the World Cup but then looks like crap here? I don't buy it... It's coaching.


I don't think it matters who we bring in as goalie if Flaherty is still here, he will ruin them.
This is a popular argument but what is it based on? I'm not saying Flaherty is a good coach, I'm saying that as a fan I have no way of knowing. Does not making lousy goalies in Pav and Hutchinson into good goalies reflect on the coach? Does the fact that a 23-year old has not immediately been great in the NHL mean the coach is bad? Pretty weak argument.

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